Only 4 active WR

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

Most people these days want instant gratification, and if they don’t have it, they look to those that do currently and draw conclusions. Essentially, there is lack of critical thinking, replaced by knee jerk reactions/comments. 

Instant gratification?  This is year 6 for McD and year 5 for Allen. Instant gratification went bye bye 3 or 4 years ago…

[Tanoros]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I am not complaining about the that. What's discouraging is the play of the Wrs. I honestly thought the group would be much better and more consistent. Diggs is a stud and has done everything. A true number 1 receiver. After that is goes downhill pretty fast. Gabe has been wildly inconsistent. Not what you want in a number 2 receiver. It's almost like it's bust or boom. McKenzie seems to be a quality back up WR. He doesn't appears to be reliable or starter material. Shakir shows flashes but his opportunity has been limited. That indicates the Bills staff feels like he's not ready to be a starter. Kumerrow is a very good special teamed. Crowder was a dart throw and has hurt again. History showed a long injury history. The Bills took a risk that didn't pay off. In hindsight, the WR core isn't nearly as strong as I thought. 

What's the history of Coach McD? Isn't that what really counts? 

I personally disagree about Davis. He hurt his ankle before our week 2 matchup, missing the game. He played hurt and limited weeks 3 and 4, and the only other weeks he had that weren’t so good are weeks 8 and 9 (GB and NY), with both teams putting their number 1 cb on Davis (Sauce being one of them) and bracketing Diggs. His remaining games were pretty damn good, and the Bills give him a lot of end zone targets. He still has room to grow, like learning to bear those strong man corners. But you can’t look at the stats alone and make a judgement, you have to understand the context. I also think, after the KC playoff game, most expected to see a 1B type of wr, but Gabe is a number 2, however, a really good number 2, who like I said, is still growing and developing. 
 

As for the slot, McKenzie, Crowder, and Shakir isn’t a bad way to go into the season and that’s exactly how the majority on the board saw it too. Because Crowder has injury concerns does that mean we should have signed yet another slot guy? I didn’t hear a lot of that before the season started. In just keep seeing alot of people using hindsight and saying we should have done this, or should have done that, when much of what is being said is the exact opposite of what was said before the season started. 
 

Personally, I REALLY hope we can get OBJ. He would help open up this offense even more. Him, Diggs, and Davis would be a nightmare to defend. 

[Tanoros]

8 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Instant gratification?  This is year 6 for McD and year 5 for Allen. Instant gratification went bye bye 3 or 4 years ago…

I’m referring to this season alone, ala, “instant”. The tone changed mightily after we’ve lost these last 2 games. Like you said, this is year 5 for Allen and 6 for McDermott, they’ve shown that they can beat anyone, which is exactly why people shouldn’t be overreacting. Both Allen and McDermott have defied expectations since they’ve been in Buffalo (who thought McDermott would make the playoffs year one when he was, “tanking”?). 
 

I know many will never let go of 13 seconds, and it obviously wasn’t good. But one moment doesn’t define a person or a team. I’m sure if we look back, we could point out post season blunders from other coaches who have gone on to win a Super Bowl later in their career. I personally, have no reason to doubt McDermott or Allen. They have a growth mindset, and that’s pretty damn evident. 

[John from Riverside]

53 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Tupac “Shakur”?  Or Khalil “Shakir”. Please clear the air…

Which ever one gets him on the field?

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Tanoros said:

I’m referring to this season alone, ala, “instant”. The tone changed mightily after we’ve lost these last 2 games. Like you said, this is year 5 for Allen and 6 for McDermott, they’ve shown that they can beat anyone, which is exactly why people shouldn’t be overreacting. Both Allen and McDermott have defied expectations since they’ve been in Buffalo (who thought McDermott would make the playoffs year one when he was, “tanking”?). 
 

I know many will never let go of 13 seconds, and it obviously wasn’t good. But one moment doesn’t define a person or a team. I’m sure if we look back, we could point out post season blunders from other coaches who have gone on to win a Super Bowl later in their career. I personally, have no reason to doubt McDermott or Allen. They have a growth mindset, and that’s pretty damn evident. 

Until Coach McD gets it done the 13 second blunder will be part of his legacy. He earned every bit of it. There is really only one thing that can asterisk that disaster. 

Edited November 19, 2022 by newcam2012

[Tanoros]

16 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Instant gratification?  This is year 6 for McD and year 5 for Allen. Instant gratification went bye bye 3 or 4 years ago…

P.S - Show us some of your comments where you were down on McDermott and Allen before week 1 this season, or even after the first couple weeks of this season. Or did your opinion change after the last few weeks? Most (maybe even you), were very high on this team before the season and in the early parts of this season, now many are down on McDermott and even Allen. That’s my exact point about instant gratification. If we don’t win/boat race every team, many on this board fall apart and point fingers everywhere. 

[Tanoros]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Until Coach McD gets it done the 13 second blunder will be part of his legacy. He earned every bit of it. There had really only one thing that can asterisk that disaster. 

No, the 13 second blunder will ALWAYS be a part of his legacy. That’s just the way it is. But, at the same time, 13 seconds doesn’t define who he is, or who this team is. I know I have made mistakes in my career, and I’ve also learned from them, and became better for it. Many times in life, we learn more from mistakes than we do times we don’t make mistakes. That’s what so many on this board overlook, or fail to realize. They act as if we need a coach who is perfect, and never makes mistakes, especially in the biggest of moments. That’s entirely unrealistic. A more realistic outlook, is to have a coach who grows and learns from their mistakes, and gets better for it, and I believe whole heartily that McDermott is that kind of coach! 

[newcam2012]

26 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

Think of all the years of fans saying the same type of sht about Andy Reid before he won his Super Bowl. Remember, he was let go from the Eagles. Coaches grow and develop too, and the Coach (like a player) can’t do it all themselves. It took the right combination of players for Andy to get a Super Bowl (no one thought KC was a Juggernaut when Alex Smith was their QB). Additionally, how many seasons has Andy Reid been a head coach? How many seasons before he won his first Super Bowl? McDermott has best Reid and the Chiefs twice, and we are 13 seconds away from beating them the last 3 times we played. That’s not even close to holding Andy Reid’s jock. 

Flawed logic here. Reid's past doesn't indicate what McD future success will be. What's clear is Reid has gotten it done with a Lombardi Trophy. McD has only seen it hoisted from. His television set. His past mistakes don't necessarily translate into success or winning a Super Bowl. He can absolutely grow and make better decisions going forward. Thus far, I remain skeptical due to his past failures. One of which is almost unforgivable. Literally, he ripped the hearts out of the fans, Josh Allen, and Stephen Diggs. We deserved that AFC championship game in Bflo. No way no how do I think the Bills lose that game to Cinci. I digress here...Currently, Reid has the pedigree and experience that outclasses McD. 

[Tanoros]

45 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

What's the history of Coach McD? Isn't that what really counts? 

The point your not getting, is your exact comment above could have been said about Andy Reid while with the Eagles. As you know, history is used to help understand the present, and looking back we see Andy Reid grew and developed and later won a Super Bowl on his second team, after his first gave up on him. How many others have grown and learned from mistakes? 

 

Can McDermott grow to become a coach everyone considers one of the best of his time? it’s very possible, the opposite is also possible that he doesn’t. However, we know he values the growth mindset greatly, and we’ve seen his growth from year 1 to 6. At this point in time, I don’t see evidence that his growth has stagnated or declined. Do you? If so, what do you see? 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Tanoros

[newcam2012]

2 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

No, the 13 second blunder will ALWAYS be a part of his legacy. That’s just the way it is. But, at the same time, 13 seconds doesn’t define who he is, or who this team is. I know I have made mistakes in my career, and I’ve also learned from them, and became better for it. Many times in life, we learn more from mistakes than we do times we don’t make mistakes. That’s what so many on this board overlook, or fail to realize. They act as if we need a coach who is perfect, and never makes mistakes, especially in the biggest of moments. That’s entirely unrealistic. A more realistic outlook, is to have a coach who grows and learns from their mistakes, and gets better for it, and I believe whole heartily that McDermott is that kind of coach! 

This is a fair post. However, all mistakes aren't equal. For me, McD has to lead this team to a Super Bowl appearance.  I'm not even saying winning the Super Bowl. Based on what I'm seeing, I am beginning to think he might not be able to deliver. Obviously, you disagree and I respect that. Seems like the Coach McD coaching style is getting a little old and one trick pony for me. I believe Allen would benefit from an offensive minded innovative coach. Not sure who that person is or if they exist. Surely, the Bills can do worse than McD. 

[newcam2012]

16 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

The point your not getting, is your exact comment above could have been said about Andy Reid while with the Eagles. As you know, history is used to help understand the present, and looking back we see Andy Reid grew and developed and later one a Super Bowl on his second, after his first gave up on him. How many others have grown and learned from mistakes? 

 

Can McDermott grow to become a coach everyone considers one of the best of his time? it’s very possible, the opposite is also possible that he doesn’t. However, we know he values the growth mindset greatly, and we’ve seen his growth from year 1 to 6. At this point in time, I don’t see evidence that his growth has stagnated or declined. Do you? If so, what do you see? 

That's fair. I see a coach who is being out coached on many levels. Previous years his halftime adjustments were outstanding. Now, it's quite the opposite. I see a coach who regularly loses close games. I see a coach who lost playoff games in Houston, KC, and KC. I saw QB Allen lead the Bills to victory from defeat only to have McD give it back to the opposition in a matter of seconds. I see a coach who has a lot to prove. One who says the right things, stays the course, sells the process, and has yet to deliver. Time will tell if he is able to lead this team to the Super Bowl. I have my doubts based on his history. 

Edited November 19, 2022 by newcam2012

[Tanoros]

17 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Flawed logic here. Reid's past doesn't indicate what McD future success will be. What's clear is Reid has gotten it done with a Lombardi Trophy. McD has only seen it hoisted from. His television set. His past mistakes don't necessarily translate into success or winning a Super Bowl. He can absolutely grow and make better decisions going forward. Thus far, I remain skeptical due to his past failures. One of which is almost unforgivable. Literally, he ripped the hearts out of the fans, Josh Allen, and Stephen Diggs. We deserved that AFC championship game in Bflo. No way no how do I think the Bills lose that game to Cinci. I digress here...Currently, Reid has the pedigree and experience that outclasses McD. 

Of course it doesn’t mean McDermott will succeed. My point, I’ve said in a few other posts is that examples such as Reid are evidence that it CAN happen. That’s it’s not out of the realm of possibilities. But when looking at McDermott personally and trying to guess whether he will grow or not, I look at things such as him greatly valuing the growth mindset. Then other things such as the strong family type of culture, leading to amazing camaraderie on the field. Besides all of that, McDermott has gotten better at clock management, challenging, and as Allen grew, he too opened up his offensive approach and his aggressiveness (4th downs, even 4th downs near the goal line). Not to mention everything on the defensive side of the ball. I mean, it would be very hard to get a coach who would be better than him, chances are great our coaching would be worse. 
 

Obviously he isn’t perfect, and he does have things to improve. Like the mid season slumps, and 13 seconds of course. Like how you mention Bills fans hearts being ripped out (and it’s true), it feels like alot of people are speaking from a emotional perspective, rather than a logical one. 

6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

That's fair. I see a coach who is being out coached on many levels. Previous years his halftime adjustments were outstanding. Now, it's quite the opposite. I see a coach who regularly loses close games. I see a coach who lost playoff games in Houston, KC, and KC. I saw QB Allen lead the Bills to victory from defeat only to have McD give it back to the opposition in a matter of seconds. I see a coach who has a lot to prove. One who says the right things, stays the course, sells the process, and has yet to deliver. Time will tell if he is able to lead this team to the Super Bowl. I have my doubts based on his history. 

To replace him though, it couldn’t be just anyone. Because the chances aren’t great to have anything better, and McDermott/Beane are the kind of combo who give your team a fighting chance every season. There is always going to be injuries and weird stuff each season, so having a team that can play with anyone is what is needed. You want perfection, and that’s fine. What your saying, you’d have to have a person and mind and even then, it’s not guaranteed. 

[Tanoros]

34 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

This is a fair post. However, all mistakes aren't equal. For me, McD has to lead this team to a Super Bowl appearance.  I'm not even saying winning the Super Bowl. Based on what I'm seeing, I am beginning to think he might not be able to deliver. Obviously, you disagree and I respect that. Seems like the Coach McD coaching style is getting a little old and one trick pony for me. I believe Allen would benefit from an offensive minded innovative coach. Not sure who that person is or if they exist. Surely, the Bills can do worse than McD. 

I see. You’d prefer the more offensive minded. It makes sense, that’s the way the league is going. I suppose it would have to be Sean Payton or a dice roll, unless there someone else out there. 
 

I’m not 100% sure about Dorsey. But I’m sure our offense can be fine going the coordinator route, while having a defensive coach. We always have a top defense, and Allen will power any offense. Yes, it’s crucial to have a good offensive coordinator, but at this level, the Bills can afford to take some calculated risks to get some, “up and comer” who can parley the position into a head coaching job, like Daboll.
 

This is Dorsey’s first season, he hasn’t shown that he’s a failure, but he has shown that he has room to improve. But our offense is far from bad. Beane has to prove it, but if Dorsey did fail, they better move on (we did move on from o coordinator after McDermotts first season), and that’s yet to be determined. 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Tanoros

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, Tanoros said:

I’m referring to this season alone, ala, “instant”. The tone changed mightily after we’ve lost these last 2 games. Like you said, this is year 5 for Allen and 6 for McDermott, they’ve shown that they can beat anyone, which is exactly why people shouldn’t be overreacting. Both Allen and McDermott have defied expectations since they’ve been in Buffalo (who thought McDermott would make the playoffs year one when he was, “tanking”?). 
 

I know many will never let go of 13 seconds, and it obviously wasn’t good. But one moment doesn’t define a person or a team. I’m sure if we look back, we could point out post season blunders from other coaches who have gone on to win a Super Bowl later in their career. I personally, have no reason to doubt McDermott or Allen. They have a growth mindset, and that’s pretty damn evident. 

Do they?  I’m not so sure with McD. He seems to continually find ways to let teams back in games. We just don’t put teams away and it bites us a lot of times. I’ve seen way too many games where Allen was lights out in the first half and then we come out flat and conservative in the second half. You’re right though…he lost a lot of my faith in that 13 second debacle. 

1 hour ago, Tanoros said:

P.S - Show us some of your comments where you were down on McDermott and Allen before week 1 this season, or even after the first couple weeks of this season. Or did your opinion change after the last few weeks? Most (maybe even you), were very high on this team before the season and in the early parts of this season, now many are down on McDermott and even Allen. That’s my exact point about instant gratification. If we don’t win/boat race every team, many on this board fall apart and point fingers everywhere. 

I’ve never lost faith in Allen. Never. I was supporting him his rookie year when most (maybe even you) were crucifying him mercilessly. 
 

McD is a different story.  I lost a lot of faith in him after 13 seconds. It was a nightmare and couldn’t have been botched worse. That’s on him and I’ve been super critical of him. 

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Bottom line is Reid has gotten it done while coach McD can't close the door. Further success isn't predicated on past failures. Some people just can't get it done. Until you can you will always play second fiddle. The criticisms are absolutely warranted. 

 

Reid will be going to the hall of fame meanwhile McD is know as a very good coach who choked the game away in 13 seconds. I might add that Daboll was most likely the key to much of McD success. In a way, he was riding his coat tails. Look at the Giants success and look how Allen is struggling. 

 

Scott if you took an unbiased poll I'd be confident in say that 90% of NFL fans and experts would choose Reid/Mahomes over McD/ Allen. Frankly, it's a no brainer. 

There you go with the name calling again. I answered your question and I did acknowledge that he had some good games. 

 

Yeah Reid got it done 20 years later.  7th season into his KC tenure. You dont know if McD can get it done or not. 

 

McDermott has plenty of time to change that narrative.  Daboll went through the same offensive struggles last year as Dorsey is going through now.  I would add that Daboll also had better offensive talent last season.  While the Giants success is great so far and I am happy for him, Allen had these struggles last season too.

 

Thats pretty obvious that people would pick that thus far.  Reid and Mahomes have already done it. What would that poll be during Reids 13 seasons in Philly when he got the same criticism McD is getting now and fans wanting to run him out of town? McD/Allens story is still being written.

 

Im sorry but where in any of what I said did I call you any names?  I thought I answered pretty respectfully.  Are you seriously offended by me calling you bro?   

Edited November 19, 2022 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

Instant gratification?  This is year 6 for McD and year 5 for Allen. Instant gratification went bye bye 3 or 4 years ago…

 

So you would have fired Reid twice now then huh?

[Tanoros]

12 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I’ve never lost faith in Allen. Never. I was supporting him his rookie year when most (maybe even you) were crucifying him mercilessly. 
 

McD is a different story.  I lost a lot of faith in him after 13 seconds. It was a nightmare and couldn’t have been botched worse. That’s on him and I’ve been super critical of him. 

I didn’t post when Allen was a rookie, take it for what you will, I’ve wanted Allen since pre draft and Baker after him at the time. 
 

I can see many losing faith in a coach after something as 13 seconds. Makes sense. However, wanting to move on from him because of it, is more an emotional based decision, and not a logical one. Which is fine, but I don’t think most organizations aren’t making decisions based on emotions. From an organizational standpoint, he’d have to make a mistake like that again, stop growing, or show a decline to move on.
 

The way the Bills are constructed now, as a football team and as an organization (Beane/McDermott/Allen), we are in a position to have a team that can beat anyone year over year. If we move on from McDermott, who is this pick? It’s a dice roll any which way, but it can’t be to move on and take a long shot, so who? You want perfection, and that’s fine, but we don’t perfection to win a Super Bowl. 
 

Beane has shown he can draft/trade/sign contracts and build a good team year over year. McDermott has shown he can build a top tier culture within his team. With players truly feeling like brothers on the field. Not to mention he brings with him an amazing, championship caliber defense. Then, Allen a qb who can power any offense.
 

What’s that leave us, needing that’s of great importance? A great offensive coordinator! in a league valuing the next best thing as offensive coordinators. It leaves the Bills in the perfect spot to take some calculated risks on some up and coming bright offensive minds. Who wouldn’t want to work with Allen with a chance to parlay the experience into a head coaching job? I see this position as great place to be as an organization, and wholly viable way to win a Super Bowl. 
 

Ken Dorsey hasn’t shown one way or another whether he should stay or not. However, the Bills have shown that they will move on after one season if it doesn’t work out. So far, our offense is far from horrible, so let’s see how they finish the second half of the season.
 

Allen, personally, has shown growth down the stretch each one of his seasons. So I’m curious to see what that is this year, and if Dorsey/offense has a whole do the same (kind of like how our team did at the end of last season). 

[Simon Says]

On 11/18/2022 at 7:57 AM, balln said:

And w McKenzie sick. Only 3. 
 

Yet we pick up aj klein. 
 

come on beane ! 

McKenzie is back.  Diggs,Davis,Shakir,and McKenzie. Could use Taiwan Jones or Hines if needed.

[Simon Says]

On 11/18/2022 at 8:00 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Marquez Stevenson.

He has nearly 3 weeks to practice.

[JerseyBills]

On 11/18/2022 at 8:00 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Marquez Stevenson.

Funny when I started a thread on him having a breakout year, pre injury, I was ridiculed to no end.

I'm telling everyone, this kid will be an X factor for this O