Seriously, how complicated is our offense

[HoofHearted]

41 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The idea is to use the player and his talents and abilities quickly, but not in every situation until he learns the offense.

 

Hines would not need to be relied on for 60 plays a game. You wouldn’t need to limit your play calling for every play.

 

How about 15 though? Minnesota is making it work.

Yeah, it's a little different with Tight Ends in the pass game than RBs because of protections. You can free release a Tight End whenever you want and still be sound in protections. The box count and the post-snap pressure reads can dictate whether or not backs can release or not which takes time to learn/develop when there's probably 6-7 different types of protections that we run. Additionally, as I described in my post to Scott the EP verbiage system relies heavily on memorization of concepts and understanding where you fit into the concept based on your pre-snap alignment (and how those responsibilities can change based on motions/shifts). In every other system the call will tell each player what his responsibility is.

[BillyBilliams]

I think this is 100% on trust.  My issue with it is that trust is all on the coaching staff.  At some point the coaching staff is going to have to trust their players like they trust Josh Allen.  There is no way that Hines can't figure out his assignments as a vet in this league.  If the coaching staff can't figure things out, our SB window is going to start closing.

[Old Coot]

Could be that he's having trouble with blitz pick-up in practice or getting his timing down with OL blocks.

 

Whatever the reason, we'll see him on the field as the season progresses.

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

True there does seem to be miscomunications here and there but when I hear Peterson say that he knew what play we were running and where Josh was going to go with the ball just based off our formation... it leads me to believe our O is not that complex.  The dude spent less than a week watching Bills film and can say that.

 

 

 

 

Peterson absolutely did NOT say that he knew what play we were running. 

 

He did say that he knew two concepts we often use in the red zone. So he thought he'd see those concepts, but didn't know for sure. He was prepared for some types of plays we run in the red zone. And he did say that Gabe was running only in-breakers all day. (If that's true, it should absolutely be corrected. Gabe runs out-breakers really well. If they fell into a pattern this game without noticing, that does need to be addressed.)

 

Most teams have red zone packages and go with things that have worked for them.

 

So Peterson knew what types of things to look for. He did think that if the D went quarters he might see a dig or a double post, and Gabe was indeed running a post there. Peterson also says, "Everybody loves to run that." It's not just the Bills. But he had the right idea.

 

But if he so clearly knew what was going to happen, how come it took a bad throw for him to make that INT?

 

Peterson was beaten on the play. A good pass there is a touchdown. Peterson was behind and to the right. Allen threw low and behind, right to him. If he'd led Davis correctly and put it high, it was a touchdown.

 

It was a pass that just wasn't good enough. Someone on here the other day said that it seemed Josh was forcing balls to Diggs and Davis. That's what seemed to happen that play. Two guys were opener on easier throws. That's a tendency, and probably one of Josh's rather than Dorsey's.

 

That was the crucial bit of Peterson's quotation. He said, "Josh thought he had it, and like I said, Josh is a guy that trusts his arm strength. He's a gunslinger. Coach alluded to it all week. 'Stay plastered into your coverage. Stay tight into your coverage. He just might throw you one.' "

 

Yeah, that's what happened. Three guys were open, the closer two very open and Davis a bit but the throw had to be perfect. Josh picked the receiver he most wanted there, the guy who was least open but furthest down the field, and he does indeed trust his arm. That throw had to be a really good one and instead it was, what, a yard and a half to the right and low and hard instead of thrown over the top. That was a shame.

 

Most of the game he was his usual terrific self, but he had five or six throws that weren't up to his usual standards. That's how he's looked the past two or three games. And it's cost us.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Thurman#1

[97bills]

12 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Is our offense that complicated that a 5 year vet cant get some plays?  This is one thing I dont like about our coaches.  They dont trust anyone to play football and have to coddle everyone.

 

 

Teams around the league had players make plays after only being on the team for like 4 days.  Not our team though.  Our team needs rookies to get close to the end of their rookie contract before they see the field unless out of necessity.  Our team wont have Hines ready until next year.  

Your right and it’s getting old. 

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

What does that have to do with anything?  Beasley had 82 touches last season and the year before.  Gabe Davis had 35.  Your post is meaningless.

 

I was responding to the post that suggested using him "10-15" times a game.

 

Davis for the whole season had 45 catches, 800 yards, 11 TDs.

 

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

He kinda was. He was a fan favorite and was touted as having a breakout year this year due to how he played last year.

 

He averaged 5 yards per carry rushing and 8 yards per receptions. That would be tops on our team.

 

he had a better year in 2020.  Matt Breida had those numbers and they cut him.

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

he had a better year in 2020.  Matt Breida had those numbers and they cut him.

 

On way less touches, yes.

If you visit the Colts forum, they were begging Reich to use him more, and they were very sad when he was traded. Numerous posts of “Hope the Bills use him more than we did”.

[Thurman#1]

19 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

What does that have to do with anything?  Beasley had 82 touches last season and the year before.  Gabe Davis had 35.  Your post is meaningless.

 

 

Beasley had training camp. And didn't run at RB or on STs, so his role was much less complex.

 

Beasley also in the years when he was one of our best two or three options put up 11.6 and 11.8 Y/R. Hines has never been that dynamic. His high is 7.8. 

 

He's right, you're imagining a different Hines. Comparing him to Beasley or Davis just doesn't make sense.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

On way less touches, yes.

If you visit the Colts forum, they were begging Reich to use him more, and they were very sad when he was traded. Numerous posts of “Hope the Bills use him more than we did”.

 

Posters here were screaming the same about Raheem Blackshear.  Big deal. 

[Thurman#1]

30 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

He kinda was. He was a fan favorite and was touted as having a breakout year this year due to how he played last year.

 

He averaged 5 yards per carry rushing and 8 yards per receptions. That would be tops on our team.

 

 

Hines has never averaged 5.0 per carry rushing. Running behind arguably the best OL in football the past couple of years he put up 4.3 and 4.9. Singletary has a higher career YPC behind a line that was clearly inferior. And Cook's YPR is way higher than 8.

 

Not that I think Hines isn't going to be good. But the desperation to see him soon isn't really called for.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Einstein]

15 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Hines has never averaged 5.0 per carry rushing.

 

Anyone that is arguing over 0.1 yard is not interested in an actual discussion, but rather wanted to just argue. I bow out.

[Dopey]

I prefer to let the coaches coach and the fans...not.

[Dopey]

10 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

 

Jeff Wilson got traded from San Francisco to Miami and ran for over 100 yards this past week.

same oc, maybe?

[BananaB]

RB is the easiest position in the league and at mid season they still don’t trust a guy they drafted in the second round…. They don’t trust Singletary in some situations. We picked a guy off our PS to be on the field for short yardage plays last game. It’s all makes no ***** sense to me. Team keeps investing on RBs and hardly wants to use any of them. 

[Matt_In_NH]

Hines is a role player at best, I think there is an unrealistic expectation on what his impact should be.  The Bills average 20 touches to RB's, how should that be broken up?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

13 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Is our offense that complicated that a 5 year vet cant get some plays?  This is one thing I dont like about our coaches.  They dont trust anyone to play football and have to coddle everyone.

 

 

Teams around the league had players make plays after only being on the team for like 4 days.  Not our team though.  Our team needs rookies to get close to the end of their rookie contract before they see the field unless out of necessity.  Our team wont have Hines ready until next year.  

None of it makes any sense. 

 

We have old running backs returning kicks and punts. 

 

We have a GM that had to have Nyheim Hines and he doesn't see more than 2 snaps. 

 

You take a 2nd Round RB, and he averages 5 yards per touch and he doesn't get more than 5 carries a game. 

 

You have a rookie slot WR that has impressed in the two games he was given snaps, yet he isn't seeing the field. 

 

You have a gimmick slot WR that is just out there, not getting many jet sweeps or carries, giving you 20-30 yards per game on 70% snap count, no change. 

 

With this staff, nothing changes. We talk about it every week, all look in the mirror, and then Sunday comes and its the same people running the same plays every week. 

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

They said during the broadcast that when Hockensen was traded to Minnesota, they put him right in whether he knew the plays or not. They would tell him in the huddle “run to the 30 and turn right”. It’s worked.

What happens when an audible comes into play? "Hey Hock, never mind...do what you feel".

[Einstein]

13 minutes ago, Dopey said:

What happens when an audible comes into play? "Hey Hock, never mind...do what you feel".

 

I’m assuming they tell him what the main audible option would be on that play. But not sure.

[Dopey]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I’m assuming they tell him what the main audible option would be on that play. But not sure.

Sounds like a plan.

🤪

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

59 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Hines has never averaged 5.0 per carry rushing. Running behind arguably the best OL in football the past couple of years he put up 4.3 and 4.9. Singletary has a higher career YPC behind a line that was clearly inferior. And Cook's YPR is way higher than 8.

 

Not that I think Hines isn't going to be good. But the desperation to see him soon isn't really called for.

 

 

I would assume hines was running against a lot more stacked boxes than singletary ever has though.  Not that it’s singletarys fault but when the Vikings started looking for the run we couldn’t do anything in the running game.