Erik Turner: Ken Dorsey bears the brunt of the blame for red zone woes

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

How's that working out for them? Their offense is a trainwreck. Defensive players are calling out the plays they are running with regularity 

Depends which coach you're talking about. Daboll seems to be doing pretty good and was brought up this way. 

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Depends which coach you're talking about. Daboll seems to be doing pretty good and was brought up this way. 

 

Patricia and Judge

[Not at the table Karlos]

11 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Patricia and Judge

Not every single person is guaranteed to be a good coach so it's not 100% but up until this year it's worked pretty well for them. The last few years they've been making head scratching decisions. 

 

Patricia is a long time defensive coach that coached a little offense almost 20 years ago. A little different when you do a year as an assistant on D then switch to an O assistant for years before getting OC job vs being a DC then HC then OC(I highly doubt he focused solely on offense as HC).  It's possible if he was an assistant for a couple years before being thrown into fire with poor talent that he could be better. But I don't really like him as a coach so I doubt it. 

 

Judge is terrible and was rushed because owners are stupid. He had one year as WR coach along with being ST coordinator. These two are prob the worst examples from that tree. Neither of them have much offensive coaching experience. 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Not at the table Karlos

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Not every single person is guaranteed to be a good coach so it's not 100% but up until this year it's worked pretty well for them. The last few years they've been making head scratching decisions. 

 

Patricia is a long time defensive coach that coached a little offense almost 20 years ago. A little different when you do a year as an assistant on D then switch to an O assistant for years before getting OC job vs being a DC then HC then OC(I highly doubt he focused solely on offense as HC).  It's possible if he was an assistant for a couple years before being thrown into fire with poor talent that he could be better. But I don't really like him as a coach so I doubt it. 

 

Judge is terrible and was rushed because owners are stupid. He had one year as WR coach along with being ST coordinator. These two are prob the worst examples from that tree. Neither of them have much offensive coaching experience. 

 

I mean I get your point and it seems coming up people switch sides with some regularity(ie, it's not super rare to see a guy go from coaching WRs to LBs or whatever during his early days)...

 

It might simply be to find their "niche" so to speak...everyone likely is "better" at coaching one side of the ball than the other and maybe it takes a while to figure out which side that is.

[Jerome007]

On 11/18/2022 at 12:33 AM, DrPJax said:

My issue is lack of awareness by gabe about the fumble and as you mentioned , it’s obvious with the motion when the snap is coming.  Dorsey is not adjusting to his own tendencies.

That was THE time for a fake. As Davis comes behind Allen, Josh does a hard count and voila, the Bills get 5 yards to get out of the hole. The rest is... victory. That's how you take advantage of your own tendencies. What better time then that, to win a game and when at the half yard line??

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

He should be able to help Dorsey with his game plans or designs. If he's not or can't we seriously need to look into replacing him 

Serious question, no sarcasm. The HC must be involved in the game plans, right? I mean, it's not just the OC and DC doing it, while the HC takes care of management stuff! The HC has to be butting in. 

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

That was THE time for a fake. As Davis comes behind Allen, Josh does a hard count and voila, the Bills get 5 yards to get out of the hole. The rest is... victory. That's how you take advantage of your own tendencies. What better time then that, to win a game and when at the half yard line??

 

That's a great plan.  During the game I was calling for a play action swing pass to get a few yards.

I'm critical of Dorsey but I do have some patience.

 

Fans could hate on some of Daboll's calls, but he did like to do things that kept the D guessing.  It's a tough balance.

[BuffaloBill]

6 hours ago, finn said:

So you think only professional coaches can spot their own patterns? And that they will necessarily respond effectively if they can? 

 

 

 

 

Your questions point to exactly why I commented.  Should it not be on the Bills staff to analyze their own tendencies? Especially coming out of the bye and knowing that they have not been good in the red zone.  

 

As to responding effectively, that is exactly what they are paid to do. Yes, we should expect that the OC would respond effectively.

[Thurman#1]

On 11/18/2022 at 8:52 PM, John from Riverside said:

I sincerely hope that you are right and that it’s not Josh just going for the kill when he knew he had the underneath route

 

honestly, I think he’s on the benefit of the doubt but that’s just me

 

 

Josh has not been good recently. Or rather, he's consistently had bad moments mixed into the excellence.

 

The headline for this thread is "Ken Dorsey bears the brunt of the blame," but actually Turner continued the sentence with, "and not just the QB."

 

Turner mentioned many Allen mistakes as well as OL problems and a few WR gaffes. Dorsey sure does get some blame, but there's plenty to go around.

[Tanoros]

On 11/16/2022 at 7:53 PM, Victory Formation said:

I don’t think so, at least not long term, at least not for us to transition into being a great team instead of just a good one.

 

McD is a good coach, not a great one. He’s a defensive guru whose defenses crap the bed in big moments. He’s not the offensive innovator that Josh Allen needs.

What offensive coach do you move to? It’s a dice a roll and absolutely no reason to do it at this juncture. 

[Eastport bills]

On 11/16/2022 at 10:49 PM, MiltonWaddams said:

Yup. There just aren’t enough players that have been set up to succeed based on the plays that he’s called in the RZ. He either needs get creative or to start looking around the league a bit more and borrowing plays that work. 

I believe Dorsey has become intoxicated by Josh’s incredible talent to improvise and be successful with off schedule plays in the RZ. The problem now is that without a short yardage running attack.teams are spying 17 and collapsing coverage on the 3 receivers he trusts. It’s time to get creative and stop being predictable.