Erik Turner: Ken Dorsey bears the brunt of the blame for red zone woes

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Can we adjust? 

[MiltonWaddams]

Yup. There just aren’t enough players that have been set up to succeed based on the plays that he’s called in the RZ. He either needs get creative or to start looking around the league a bit more and borrowing plays that work. 

[ghostwriter]

I don’t think so, at least not long term, at least not for us to transition into being a great team instead of just a good one.

 

McD is a good coach, not a great one. He’s a defensive guru whose defenses crap the bed in big moments. He’s not the offensive innovator that Josh Allen needs.

[Big Turk]

17 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

I don’t think so, at least not long term, at least not for us to transition into being a great team instead of just a good one.

 

McD is a good coach, not a great one. He’s a defensive guru whose defenses crap the bed in big moments. He’s not the offensive innovator that Josh Allen needs.

 

He isn't involved in the offensive gameplan so this makes zero sense.

[ghostwriter]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

He isn't involved in the offensive gameplan so this makes zero sense.

Wouldn’t you rather that we did have a HC who was involved with our offense? An Andy Reid or a Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan of sorts? 🤔

[LABILLBACKER]

23 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

I don’t think so, at least not long term, at least not for us to transition into being a great team instead of just a good one.

 

McD is a good coach, not a great one. He’s a defensive guru whose defenses crap the bed in big moments. He’s not the offensive innovator that Josh Allen needs.

You can't be a defensive guru and have your defense fail every playoffs.  I agree Josh thrived his last 2 years with Daboll.  And he's struggling with Dorsey.  Patrick has Andy and it reflects in his play and stability. Josh is now kinda alone. The offensive concepts aren't working the same.  JA needs help & support. 

[billieve420]

Redzone play has definitely looked worse this year with Allen turning the ball over frequently. Dorsey should look at film from what worked last year and incorporate those concepts into the game plan.

[Success]

Dorsey needs to improve.  I have no problem giving him the benefit of the doubt that he CAN improve.  No one is as good their 1st year on the job as they end up being.

 

We don't really have time to waste here, though.  He needs to check the tape, see what worked last year & make adjustments.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

12 minutes ago, Success said:

Dorsey needs to improve.  I have no problem giving him the benefit of the doubt that he CAN improve.  No one is as good their 1st year on the job as they end up being.

 

We don't really have time to waste here, though.  He needs to check the tape, see what worked last year & make adjustments.

 

I agree we don't have the luxury of time. Dorsey has gotta retrace his Daboll steps. Buy Josh some time and use more of his concepts.  

[Richard Noggin]

The most concerning plays, to me, were two game-changers that displayed an obvious preparation deficiency for the Bills: the backed-up, goal line sneak where Gabe Davis's motion absolutely telegraphed the snap (based on film study) AND the last, OT interception, about which Patrick Peterson admits he knew the route to undercut based on film study. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

12 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

The most concerning plays, to me, were two game-changers that displayed an obvious preparation deficiency for the Bills: the backed-up, goal line sneak where Gabe Davis's motion absolutely telegraphed the snap (based on film study) AND the last, OT interception, about which Patrick Peterson admits he knew the route to undercut based on film study. 

Those were both blown plays by Allen imo…although there’s probably plenty of evidence of suspect playcalling by Dorsey I’m sure.  Peterson is kind of full of sh*t there lol 

 

allen had gabe in the back of the end zone for a likely td with minimal risk of anything worse than an incompletion and he completely missed the throw.  
The route concept was perfect  against that defense and Peterson was beat by a step

 

 

the sneak I still believe was the right call Allen just botched that one too…doesn’t at all matter that they telegraphed it.  When have you seen a sneak lose a half yard in nfl history even if the defense is loaded up to stop it and that’s before you could even get leverage from someone pushing from behind.   I think Allen was looking ahead and trying to take away some of the potential difficulty of the following play on the off chance they lost some fraction of a yard and he tried to run before securing the snap. 
 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Wouldn’t you rather that we did have a HC who was involved with our offense? An Andy Reid or a Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan of sorts? 🤔

McDermott has 11 more wins than Kyle and 3 less than McVey in same 6 years as HC. 
 

this is silly 

[CSBill]

17 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

The most concerning plays, to me, were two game-changers that displayed an obvious preparation deficiency for the Bills: the backed-up, goal line sneak where Gabe Davis's motion absolutely telegraphed the snap (based on film study)

 

Really? 70,000 people in the stadium knew what was going to be called, and should be called. How about they just did not execute it correctly. It was a 1 in a 100 times failure. Unfortunately, the 1 really bites.

Edited November 17, 2022 by CSBill

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, CSBill said:

 

Really? 70,000 people in the stadium knew what was going to be called, and should be called. How about they just did not execute it correctly. It was a a 1 in a 100 times failure. Unfortunately, the 1 really bites.

Heard a stat on NFL radio about this. They said that it was only the second time in the last 10 years that a QB trying to sneak the ball out of their own EZ fumbled it away for a defensive TD. The crazy thing was that the other time was also Josh Allen. Does anybody else remember that?

[Freak-O]

8 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

You can't be a defensive guru and have your defense fail every playoffs.  I agree Josh thrived his last 2 years with Daboll.  And he's struggling with Dorsey.  Patrick has Andy and it reflects in his play and stability. Josh is now kinda alone. The offensive concepts aren't working the same.  JA needs help & support. 

I wouldn’t say he’s struggling. Just a few games ago he was the front runner for the MVP title. He’s in a slump and injured to an unknown degree. The entire team is injured. 

[HOUSE]

Finally we found a scapegoat for interceptions and fumbled footballs on the goal line 

[BarleyNY]

8 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Wouldn’t you rather that we did have a HC who was involved with our offense? An Andy Reid or a Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan of sorts? 🤔
 

 

Long term this is definitely a concern. Successful OCs will always be in high demand for HC jobs and replacing them will always be more difficult than replacing DCs. 
 

As for where the blame for our crunch time struggles lies, it’s both Dorsey and Allen. The combination of the simplistic route trees/combinations and Allen locking into Diggs and Davis at those times is a killer. Defenses know which two receivers to worry about and they have a very good idea what routes they’ll be running. Their job couldn’t be much easier. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

This isn’t shocking. 
 

The spacing in the Red Zone is horrible.

 

You have players running the same routes, ending up in the same area. 
 

So Allen just takes it on himself to run more.

 

The other thing I see is there is never a dump off option in the flat. 
 

All or nothing routes with guys deep in the end zone. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Not at the table Karlos]

8 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

He isn't involved in the offensive gameplan so this makes zero sense.

The head coach should be involved in everything. Belichick was a defensive coordinator and a defensive head coach. He called up Urban Meyer to learn the spread and how to score more points. Great coaches learn the entire game. That's why belichick has his coaches start on the opposite side of the ball so you can understand how defenses will try to stop you and you know how to adjust.  He should be able to help Dorsey with his game plans or designs. If he's not or can't we seriously need to look into replacing him 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Not at the table Karlos

[Lost]

9 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

 

Can we adjust? 

 

Can we just hire this dude to be our OC?