Super Bowl Winning Head Coaches

[Southern_Bills]

33 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

He won because he faced a bigger choker as HC in the SB..

 

I honestly can't argue the logic, but he still has the ring. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

35 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Every coach makes calls that can be correct because they worked or gaffes because they don't imo.  Every game calls get made that can be headscratchers or genius by every coach in the nfl.

 

As i mentioned in the op, the defender was in position so the play call was good.  Do we really think he hasn't been taught to knock it down there if even us at home know that's the right play? The fumble for td was a fumbled snap.  One of the easiest and routine plays in football do we really think they need better coaching on that?

 

If either of those plays are made, the Bills win and are 7-2.  That's how close each game is and why people shouldn't overreact.  I agree with you on trusting the coaching staff. It hurts losing especially the way they find to do so but this is still a damn good team with damn good coaches.

 

Let's start with one.  Then we will all probably get greedy lol

Yes, I agree with you. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. But I think the biggest gaffe of the game was not kicking the FG. Came back to bite them in the *** losing by 3. Those type of aggressive calls should be made when you are not up by 2 scores in the 4th quarter. Even your average fan knows to take the points. Amazingly stupid decision by McDermott to OK that play. 

[90sTillNOW]

That was great!  Thanks man.

[Billsforumsucks]

34 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

The question should no longer be “is Ken Dorsey a good OC?”  

 

The question needs to be are we risking a generational QB by playing OC roulette and trying out newbies for the job while we’re in the middle of a SB window - we have this roster but let’s see if the new OC gets it together.  I’m sure this has been discussed among some on this team - nothing detrimental - but enough to put in enough doubt.  
 

Stability for your HOF QB - offensive minded Head Coach might be how this has to end. 
 

I’d prefer it be much sooner then later.  
 

 

If I’m Beane - or whoever has to make this call - that’s the very blunt discussion that has to happen.  
 

The Chargers are going to fire Staley if they don’t make the playoffs and hire Sean Payton.  
 

I’m obviously rooting for McD - I love the guy. He’s my pfp for a reason.  But if this season goes south - and it’s far from it - I’m sorry but I’m going to approach it like a logical fan and tell it like it is because we can’t waste Josh Allen’s prime years hoping McD gets OC right and Ken figures it out.  

 

Well if Dorsey goes, JA is done in Buffalo, you want that? JA picked Dorsey and have deep friendship and Sean Payton has not proven anything.

[SinceThe70s]

@section122 Awesome post, fantastic context! 

 

I'm not at all against listening to and considering criticism about any aspect of the team. But all too often the criticism ignores all of the positives - and as your post points out any grounding in reality.

 

Before the season started my Giants and Jets friends were absolutely torching their teams - with expectations of no more than 4 wins. I mocked them but they would have nothing of it.  Granted both NJ teams exceeded my expectations  - but I don't expect that will be the case come January.  Regardless, when I see the gloom and doomers on this site it reminds me of the clownish attitudes of my closest friends.

 

 

[Toyo321]

11 minutes ago, Flucod said:

Well if Dorsey goes, JA is done in Buffalo, you want that? JA picked Dorsey and have deep friendship and Sean Payton has not proven anything.

Ken Dorsey IS NOT A good OC!!

 

JA is under contract he is not going anywhere.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Toyo321

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, section122 said:

My how quick we turn on everyone associated with the Bills.  This thread is a simple reminder as some think it is super bowl or bust for McD.  As if winning the super bowl is some easy feat that coaches do all the time.  If McD gets fired who is he replaced with? Here is the list of current Head Coaches that have won a super bowl and how many they have won:

 

Bill B. 6 

Andy Reid 1 in over 20 years as a HC

Sean McVay 1, shining star in LA, currently 3-6 and in last place in the division 

Doug Pederson 1, already fired from that job, Eagles haven't been past the wild card round since

Pete Carrol 1, in his 13th year with Seattle

John Harbaugh 1, in 13 years

Mike McCarthy 1, in 14 years, fired from that job, Packers haven't been to the super bowl since

Mike Tomlin 1, in 14 years, has been to 1 AFC Championship game since 2010

 

Maybe you prefer a recently unemployed coach?

 

Sean Payton 1, in 15 seasons, been to 1 NFC championship game since winning it all in 09

Bruce Arians 1, retired, great coach, not coming back, won it with Brady

Jon Gruden 1, retired, mediocre coach, not coming back, won because his replacement didn't change signals.

 

Or maybe you prefer a long since retired guy? (none of these guys are coming back)

 

Tom Coughlin 2

Gary Kubiak 1

Tony Dungy 1

Bill Cowher 1

 

That is the last 21 super bowls.  13 guys have won it 1 time. 2 guys more than once. 1 guy more than twice.  Winning a super bowl requires not only a tremendous amount of skill but also luck.  McD has the best winning percentage for any coach in Bills history.  They have lost 3 games to teams with a combined record of 21-7.  2 of them were divisional games on the road.  All 3 combined were by 8 points.

 

BBFS says they always find a way to lose, polyanna says it takes herculean efforts from other teams to beat the Bills.  The truth is the Bills are a good team and a well coached team.  McD didn't give up a long completion on 4th and 18.  The player was even in position to make the play so you can't blame playcalling. Hyde and Poyer have missed how many games and yet the d continues to be effective save for last game. Milano, Oliver, Edmunds, and Rousseau have all missed games. Come back from the ledge.

 

One thing to keep in mind about this list is that despite the listed tenure, pretty much all of them won a SB within their first 5 years with the team. It's also why they've been given benefit of the doubt and a much longer leash in the case of guys like Tomlin, Carroll, etc.

 

This is what McD has working against him right now as he's in year 6 here which has always been my issue with fans that say continuity matters and that we should keep him around no matter what as if he's in the same category as other proven SB winning head coaches. If he does deliver a SB this year than it's more than valid, but if he doesn't it's foolish to entertain the idea that's he's peaked and it's time to upgrade to someone that can not only get this team to the playoffs, but to that next level.

[T master]

It amazes me how soon some of the Mafia forgets that for 17+ years the Bills were at the bottom of the league changing coaches every couple or 3 years rebuilding good defenses because the new coach had a different philosophy like when the brought in Rex remember ???

 

I do we had a really good defense the year before & because he like the 3 - 4 better even though we had a roster filled with 4-3 players that led the league the prior year he changed anyway & we once again sucked but that like i said is forgotten as soon as the Bills aren't just dominating every one that steps on the field .

 

SO thank you for posting this & just maybe (but i doubt it) some of these so called fans that call for McD's head every time they turn around might read this & realize just how hard it is to win a SB i expect that when the day does come that the Bills do win one the following year they will be calling for the coaches head as usual ...

 

GO BILLLS !!! 

[Chaos]

Seems like the best thing to do is to fire the guys who win one, since the never repeat. We are blessed to have a guy who has never won one.  Did I get this right? 

[What a Tuel]

4 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

One thing to keep in mind about this list is that despite the listed tenure, pretty much all of them won a SB within their first 5 years with the team. It's also why they've been given benefit of the doubt and a much longer leash in the case of guys like Tomlin, Carroll, etc.

 

This is what McD has working against him right now as he's in year 6 here which has always been my issue with fans that say continuity matters and that we should keep him around no matter what as if he's in the same category as other proven SB winning head coaches. If he does deliver a SB this year than it's more than valid, but if he doesn't it's foolish to entertain the idea that's he's peaked and it's time to upgrade to someone that can not only get this team to the playoffs, but to that next level.

 

You are completely missing the point. The consistent playoff exposure for their teams resulted in super bowl. It wasn't some magic bullet the head coach had or else they would have won more of them. Outside of Belichick, winning a super bowl is building a roster, and getting to the playoffs and trying to make sure the ball lands our way throughout the playoffs to get there.

 

None of these coaches (outside of Belichick) are going to take this roster and say "oh, just do this and this and suppppeeerrrrr booooowwllll!!!!". And I say Belichick because he would bring his conniving ways to fix it in his favor.

 

As someone else said, Belichick and the Patriots really ruined your guys perception of what it takes to win a super bowl.

 

Half of this board would jump at Sean Payton despite a pretty terrible no playoff record of 40% with Drew Brees at QB.

2006 - NFCCG Loss

2007 - Missed playoffs

2008 - Missed Playoffs

2009 - Won Super Bowl

2010 - Wild Card Loss

2011 - Divisional Loss

2012 - Missed Playoffs

2013 - Division Loss

2014 - Missed Playoffs

2015 - Missed Playoffs

2016 - Missed Playoffs

2017 - Divisional Loss

2018 - NFCCG Loss

2019 - Wild Card Loss

2020 - Divisional Loss

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by What a Tuel

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, section122 said:

My how quick we turn on everyone associated with the Bills.  This thread is a simple reminder as some think it is super bowl or bust for McD.  As if winning the super bowl is some easy feat that coaches do all the time.  If McD gets fired who is he replaced with? Here is the list of current Head Coaches that have won a super bowl and how many they have won:

 

Bill B. 6 

Andy Reid 1 in over 20 years as a HC

Sean McVay 1, shining star in LA, currently 3-6 and in last place in the division 

Doug Pederson 1, already fired from that job, Eagles haven't been past the wild card round since

Pete Carrol 1, in his 13th year with Seattle

John Harbaugh 1, in 13 years

Mike McCarthy 1, in 14 years, fired from that job, Packers haven't been to the super bowl since

Mike Tomlin 1, in 14 years, has been to 1 AFC Championship game since 2010

 

Maybe you prefer a recently unemployed coach?

 

Sean Payton 1, in 15 seasons, been to 1 NFC championship game since winning it all in 09

Bruce Arians 1, retired, great coach, not coming back, won it with Brady

Jon Gruden 1, retired, mediocre coach, not coming back, won because his replacement didn't change signals.

 

Or maybe you prefer a long since retired guy? (none of these guys are coming back)

 

Tom Coughlin 2

Gary Kubiak 1

Tony Dungy 1

Bill Cowher 1

 

That is the last 21 super bowls.  13 guys have won it 1 time. 2 guys more than once. 1 guy more than twice.  Winning a super bowl requires not only a tremendous amount of skill but also luck.  McD has the best winning percentage for any coach in Bills history.  They have lost 3 games to teams with a combined record of 21-7.  2 of them were divisional games on the road.  All 3 combined were by 8 points.

 

BBFS says they always find a way to lose, polyanna says it takes herculean efforts from other teams to beat the Bills.  The truth is the Bills are a good team and a well coached team.  McD didn't give up a long completion on 4th and 18.  The player was even in position to make the play so you can't blame playcalling. Hyde and Poyer have missed how many games and yet the d continues to be effective save for last game. Milano, Oliver, Edmunds, and Rousseau have all missed games. Come back from the ledge.

 

 

Good stuff, man.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

The question should no longer be “is Ken Dorsey a good OC?”  

 

The question needs to be are we risking a generational QB by playing OC roulette and trying out newbies for the job while we’re in the middle of a SB window - we have this roster but let’s see if the new OC gets it together.  I’m sure this has been discussed among some on this team - nothing detrimental - but enough to put in enough doubt.  
 

Stability for your HOF QB - offensive minded Head Coach might be how this has to end. 
 

I’d prefer it be much sooner then later.  
 

 

If I’m Beane - or whoever has to make this call - that’s the very blunt discussion that has to happen.  
 

The Chargers are going to fire Staley if they don’t make the playoffs and hire Sean Payton.  
 

I’m obviously rooting for McD - I love the guy. He’s my pfp for a reason.  But if this season goes south - and it’s far from it - I’m sorry but I’m going to approach it like a logical fan and tell it like it is because we can’t waste Josh Allen’s prime years hoping McD gets OC right and Ken figures it out.  

 

 

 

They didn't have a shot at stability. Daboll left.

 

Allen lobbied hard for Dorsey.

 

And you say that "The question should no longer be “is Ken Dorsey a good OC?”  

 

Frankly, yes it should. That's the question. Dorsey has had some problems, but also some terrific things. He's presiding over a 6-3 team that has the #1 offense and the #2 scoring offense.

 

Is he responsible for that success? No, not he alone, certainly, but he's done his part. He's responsible for his share of their problems but also his share of their successes.

8 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

Denver Broncos with Peyton.

 

 

 

Hunh. I could not have named Kubiak if you'd asked me who had coached that team. Interesting.

 

Kubiak was never a guy who ate up much press time or ink, did he?

[JohnNord]

9 hours ago, section122 said:

My how quick we turn on everyone associated with the Bills.  This thread is a simple reminder as some think it is super bowl or bust for McD.  As if winning the super bowl is some easy feat that coaches do all the time.  If McD gets fired who is he replaced with? Here is the list of current Head Coaches that have won a super bowl and how many they have won:

 

Bill B. 6 

Andy Reid 1 in over 20 years as a HC

Sean McVay 1, shining star in LA, currently 3-6 and in last place in the division 

Doug Pederson 1, already fired from that job, Eagles haven't been past the wild card round since

Pete Carrol 1, in his 13th year with Seattle

John Harbaugh 1, in 13 years

Mike McCarthy 1, in 14 years, fired from that job, Packers haven't been to the super bowl since

Mike Tomlin 1, in 14 years, has been to 1 AFC Championship game since 2010

 

Maybe you prefer a recently unemployed coach?

 

Sean Payton 1, in 15 seasons, been to 1 NFC championship game since winning it all in 09

Bruce Arians 1, retired, great coach, not coming back, won it with Brady

Jon Gruden 1, retired, mediocre coach, not coming back, won because his replacement didn't change signals.

 

Or maybe you prefer a long since retired guy? (none of these guys are coming back)

 

Tom Coughlin 2

Gary Kubiak 1

Tony Dungy 1

Bill Cowher 1

 

That is the last 21 super bowls.  13 guys have won it 1 time. 2 guys more than once. 1 guy more than twice.  Winning a super bowl requires not only a tremendous amount of skill but also luck.  McD has the best winning percentage for any coach in Bills history.  They have lost 3 games to teams with a combined record of 21-7.  2 of them were divisional games on the road.  All 3 combined were by 8 points.

 

BBFS says they always find a way to lose, polyanna says it takes herculean efforts from other teams to beat the Bills.  The truth is the Bills are a good team and a well coached team.  McD didn't give up a long completion on 4th and 18.  The player was even in position to make the play so you can't blame playcalling. Hyde and Poyer have missed how many games and yet the d continues to be effective save for last game. Milano, Oliver, Edmunds, and Rousseau have all missed games. Come back from the ledge.

A lot of Bills fans are living in a fantasy world where they can turn into a parody of George Steinbrenner and issue all kinds of crazy championship edicts to coaches and players.  
 

I read a laughable comment here other day comparing McDermott to Doug Collins with the Chicago Bulls LOL
 

Look at Terry Pegula’s history with finding coaches in the NFL and NHL.  It’s horrendous.  McDermott is the only hire that’s actually succeeded.  He is going to wait until things its painfully obvious he has to make that choice.  Not winning the SB Is one of those choices.

 

Also, take a look at another team in MLB who fans issued a “championship of bust” edict to. - the NY Yankees.  Fans called for Aaron Boone to be fired after they failed to win a championship yet again.  What happened?  He’s still the coach.  Why?  Because as cliche as it sounds “it’s hard to win championships” and you don’t want to mess with success.   

This is not ever a perfect analogy either b/c with the NFL’s single elimination post season, you basically have a 1-in-8 chance of winning your conference and then a 50/50 chance at winning a SB.

 

Quite often, the best team in the NFL does not win the SB as they would in other sports where you play a “best of 3” or “best of 4.”

 

[JohnNord]

10 hours ago, section122 said:

 

I really think the Patriots in general messed up all fans not just Bills fans idea of how easy it is to win.  What they did is outrageous and such an outlier.  Of course it required a bit of rule manipulation but there is no denying how impressive it was.

I’d argue that Les Snead messed up fan perceptions…maybe some owners as well.  
 

After 2 seasons of failing, his “F them picks” strategy actually worked but IMO it was about getting the breaks they needed rather than being the best team in 2021.

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

One thing to keep in mind about this list is that despite the listed tenure, pretty much all of them won a SB within their first 5 years with the team. It's also why they've been given benefit of the doubt and a much longer leash in the case of guys like Tomlin, Carroll, etc.

 

This is what McD has working against him right now as he's in year 6 here which has always been my issue with fans that say continuity matters and that we should keep him around no matter what as if he's in the same category as other proven SB winning head coaches. If he does deliver a SB this year than it's more than valid, but if he doesn't it's foolish to entertain the idea that's he's peaked and it's time to upgrade to someone that can not only get this team to the playoffs, but to that next level.

 

 

"Pretty much all of them won a SB within their first 5 years with the team," you say?

 

Not Andy Reid. Not Cowher. And out of all of the SB-winning coaches mentioned there, nearly all proved teams stupid for firing them too early.

 

Nearly all of the others were fired from one team before they won one. Clearly they were good enough to win a Super Bowl or were developing towards being good enough. Yet they were fired before doing so. Stupid mistakes by stupid teams.

 

Firing a guy who eventually wins a Super Bowl is a mistake. It clearly wasn't him that was the problem. It was the roster, the locker room, the organization ... something. But Belichick in Cleveland wasn't incapable of winning a Super Bowl. Cleveland thought so, and was wrong. The problem was elsewhere. Same with Reid in Philly. And Carroll with the Jets and Pats. Arians, Gruden, Coughlin, Kubiak and Dungy.

 

Having a short leash was butt-stupid by the eight teams that fired those eight coaches forcing them to win a Lombardi elsewhere. That's excellent evidence that the teams simply didn't have much of a clue about what their teams' problems were. Bad teams, bad thinkers really, love to find scapegoats.

 

Hint: Belichick wasn't the reason the Browns couldn't win a Super Bowl when he was the head coach there. Reid wasn't the problem in Philly. Any thoughtful person could go on and on with the examples.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Thurman#1

[machine gun kelly]

10 hours ago, Virgil said:

Thank you 

Ditto.

 

im repulsed by some of these comments and their reply to me for some ridiculous posts is scroll last.  How about don’t be a wimp when we face problems.  This isn’t Madden.  They also come from people my guess is those who’ve never competed at a high level.  I have as a player and a coach.  We’re in a slump.  Allen’s making mistakes.  So are several others, but it doesn’t mean bench and fire everyone.  That’s a drought mentality.  You’d think McBeane beat that out of us in 5 years.

 

McD will lead us out of this like he did after the AZ loss two years ago, and the  Bucs overtime loss where we battled back in that game.  We finished strong both years.

[SoCal Deek]

So what you’re tryin to say is “we have a chance”? Nice! 

[blacklabel]

Good post. I think the hate on the coaches is a bit much sometimes. They aren't going to nail it on every call or decision, no coach does. For all the talented coaches mentioned here, they all have their flaws. Some don't manage the clock well, others run undisciplined squads that get penalized a lot, etc. Nobody's perfect. 

 

When I see people saying they need a wholesale change at all major coaching positions I just SMH. It's as if they've forgotten the reason the Bills are in this position is because of the work done by McDermott and his staff. He's the first coach to have sustained success since Wade Phillips and after one flukey loss people wanna throw 'em to the curb. 

 

There's always room for improvement and they're always working to get better. The dude has created a culture in Buffalo that now entices free agents and prospects to wanna come here. That never used to be the case. Cripes, one of the superstars of the league, a first ballot HOF guy, sought after the Bills in free agency. You know you've built something pretty special when that happens. 

 

I think lately they've been feeling the weight of expectations, Josh especially. They'll get it together. 

[Chicken Boo]

I think it's important to note the teams each coach had as well.  Coughlin, for example, never had a team that was considered a Super Bowl favorite.  Neither did Payton, in my opinion.  

 

There are variables here, but for me anything less than an AFC Championship appearance is a failure.  The Bills have a top 3 QB and damn good team as a whole.  They need to produce.

15 hours ago, Southern_Bills said:

Look, if McDermott wins 2 titles with Josh he will be a God. I don't care if it's year 5/6 or year 10/11. 

 

Hopefully that happens lol. Not many people getting to the championship every year, Andy Reid couldn't do it without Mahomes. 

 

That's the other thing.  A lot of us are expecting a Super Bowl now, but it may come when we're not expecting it, like Coughlin's Giants.  

 

The NFL isn't linear.  

[Chicken Boo]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Firing a guy who eventually wins a Super Bowl is a mistake. It clearly wasn't him that was the problem. It was the roster, the locker room, the organization ... something. But Belichick in Cleveland wasn't incapable of winning a Super Bowl. Cleveland thought so, and was wrong. The problem was elsewhere. Same with Reid in Philly. And Carroll with the Jets and Pats. Arians, Gruden, Coughlin, Kubiak and Dungy.

 

I disagree here to an extent.  Some of these splits were necessary for both parties to find success elsewhere.  For the coaches, some of them needed to learn and grow and possibly even work under a different owner.  

 

For example, it felt like Reid and Philly needed to part ways and it ended up working out for both in the end.  Andy is a more loose coach in KC and Philly, at that time, wasn't forcing a traditional west coast offense.   

Edited November 16, 2022 by Chicken Boo