Allen's final throw, bad decision or bad pass?

[Dopey]

Can it be both? Too many “excuses” for Josh this week.  

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, BananaB said:

How do we know he did? Bad throw or miscommunication, we really have no clue. We know Allen will take blame regardless because that’s who he is. Fact is these miscommunications between Allen and Davis have popped up at time between these two. You hardly see it out of Allen and Diggs though. 

Since the ball was late and Davis was initially open, I’m putting this on Allen. Allen has been throwing picks at an alarming rate.

26 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

For most QBs that's a bad decision. But I understand why with Allen's arm he's confident he can get it there.

 

But it has to be an absolutely beautiful throw.

 

But there's a guy on a shorter throw who's much more open, right down the center of the field. I wish he'd taken that one instead. But I agree, not a bad decision, just a bad throw. IMO that shorter route would have been a better decision.

 

Allen isn't quite right just now. Dunno what they can do. 

 

Thanks for posting it, OP.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, this.

 

It had to be thrown early. This isn't one of those routes where Allen can wait and see which way the guy goes. The receiver has to run where they tell him Josh is going to throw it. Allen was throwing it pretty much as Davis made the cut.

 

 

You never throw late over the middle.  Allen double clutched before throwing it.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Can it be both? Too many “excuses” for Josh this week.  

 

Agree and what is really interesting to me is the one person not making them is Josh. He has been self-critical 3 weeks in a row and with good reason. Josh Allen doesn't need telling when he is bad, he knows. His frustration is at risk of boiling over at the moment. I wonder if this is where he misses Dabes a bit. I feel like he needs someone in there who can help him clear his head and re-set. Maybe Dabes was that guy? 

[BarleyNY]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Since the ball was late and Davis was initially open, I’m putting this on Allen. Allen has been throwing picks at an alarming rate.

You never throw late over the middle.  Allen double clutched before throwing it.

I think a LB was in the throwing lane.

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Bad route. Cut in instead of up and that ball hits him in the chest

Do you have the play call and know exactly what route he was supposed to run? What is if the route was supposed to go up instead of in?

Edited November 15, 2022 by Not at the table Karlos

[Reed83HOF]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This. To the extent there was a "makeable" throw to Davis it was a tough, low percentage play. He obviously threw it badly, who knows how much that was the injury or just a plain miss, but in the first place having gone for the endzone on 1st down (a makeable play for Knox) I think the decision to try and force a low percentage play to Davis on 2nd down when Morris for at least another first down was open was the wrong decision. And I agree totally with you and @Reed83HOF about why he went there. Finally, to cut Josh some slack I wasn't mad on the play design where everyone is running towards the endzone. If they run someone to the middle of the field just past the 1st down marker they would have been wide open based on the coverage the Vikes were showing. 

 

Josh is frustrated with himself and forcing stuff. He needs to clear his head and get back to what he was doing early in the year, taking the underneath stuff and softening the defense up before hitting them down the field. And Ken Dorsey needs to help him with a better plan, more creativity and misdirection and better playcalling. 

Josh is entirely pressing too much and the coaching staff has to help him and the entire team right now. I see jw's tweet as a warning this can go off the rails if the don't pull their heads out of their assses...

[phypon]

I love Allen and I'm not down on him at all.  I think his arm is very tweaked with injury.  That was a horrible pass.  I think the injury is really affecting his passes as of late and he can't do what he normally can do.

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

Snowflakes on the faceshield.

It happens..

I don't think he wears the shield during games 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Horrible play design.

 

Dorsey said yesterday something like if it’s not there check it down.

 

There was nobody to check down to.

 

McKenzie was completely covered from the snap, and Singletary releases late so Josh would have had to hold the ball a bit longer, and dump to him, that’s hard to do with how long it took Singletary to get moving forward.

 

Allen’s only option would have been throw out the back of the end zone. 
 

The Bills ended up with 3 players all standing 3 yards into the endzone about 12 yards from each other total. 

For the people posting screen shots, Allen would have had to have otherworldly anticipation to squeeze that ball to Davis for the 1 second he popped open. 
 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Brandon]

Reasonable decision.  It was a tight throw,  but I thought Davis had a step on the corner when he broke his route off (which is also when Allen threw it).  I just think Allen was expecting Davis to run his route along the goal line or just short of it rather than drifting five yards deep into the end zone.  I don't know whether that's on Allen or Davis,  but it just looks like a case of miscommunication to me. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

 

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This. To the extent there was a "makeable" throw to Davis it was a tough, low percentage play. He obviously threw it badly, who knows how much that was the injury or just a plain miss, but in the first place having gone for the endzone on 1st down (a makeable play for Knox) I think the decision to try and force a low percentage play to Davis on 2nd down when Morris for at least another first down was open was the wrong decision. And I agree totally with you and @Reed83HOF about why he went there. Finally, to cut Josh some slack I wasn't mad on the play design where everyone is running towards the endzone. If they run someone to the middle of the field just past the 1st down marker they would have been wide open based on the coverage the Vikes were showing. 

 

Josh is frustrated with himself and forcing stuff. He needs to clear his head and get back to what he was doing early in the year, taking the underneath stuff and softening the defense up before hitting them down the field. And Ken Dorsey needs to help him with a better plan, more creativity and misdirection and better playcalling. 

This too. It comes down to decision making in game situations.  Peterson said after the game the Viking knew Josh trusted his arm.  What he didn't say is they figured out his mental and decision making tendencies.  Which when dealing with crunch time are to be aggressive.  Nothing wrong with that at the right moment.  But that situation was not the right moment.  Because a mistake here was game over.  At 2nd and 10 at the 20 yard line with the clock being no factor the urgency just wasn't there to ignore two other easier and more likely to be successful options.  The easy throw was to Morris or Singletary.  Sometimes taking the easy plan is the smart play. 

Earlier in the season Josh was taking those throws more often than not and the offense was close to unstoppable.  Its time to settle down and take the easy throw once in a while, move the chains, and get back to what worked earlier in the season.  

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Horrible play design.

 

Dorsey said yesterday something like if it’s not there check it down.

 

There was nobody to check down to.

 

McKenzie was completely covered from the snap, and Singletary releases late so Josh would have had to hold the ball a bit longer, and dump to him, that’s hard to do with how long it took Singletary to get moving forward.

 

Allen’s only option would have been throw out the back of the end zone. 
 

The Bills ended up with 3 players all standing 3 yards into the endzone about 12 yards from each other total. 

For the people posting screen shots, Allen would have had to have otherworldly anticipation to squeeze that ball to Davis for the 1 second he popped open. 
 

 

 

In the redzone when everything is tighter, 1 second open is open. 

 

He had Singletary open.  Singletary chipped the DE before leaking out.  Allen wasn't under pressure, he could have dumped it off after....Allen wasn't patient enough.

We have over a minute left....

3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

This too. It comes down to decision making in game situations.  Peterson said after the game the Viking knew Josh trusted his arm.  What he didn't say is they figured out his mental and decision making tendencies.  Which when dealing with crunch time are to be aggressive.  Nothing wrong with that at the right moment.  But that situation was not the right moment.  Because a mistake here was game over.  At 2nd and 10 at the 20 yard line with the clock being no factor the urgency just wasn't there to ignore two other easier and more likely to be successful options.  The easy throw was to Morris or Singletary.  Sometimes taking the easy plan is the smart play. 

Earlier in the season Josh was taking those throws more often than not and the offense was close to unstoppable.  Its time to settle down and take the easy throw once in a while, move the chains, and get back to what worked earlier in the season.  

 

He marched us down the field going short.  We were picking up chunk yards without having to go down the field.  Then he changed it on that last throw for whatever reason.

[dave mcbride]

26 minutes ago, phypon said:

I love Allen and I'm not down on him at all.  I think his arm is very tweaked with injury.  That was a horrible pass.  I think the injury is really affecting his passes as of late and he can't do what he normally can do.

Yet he threw a ton of great passes all game and had his highest completion percentage in weeks. His arm is fine. It was just a really bad throw and a bad decision. It happens. Honestly, he should have run it — he had a clear lane and would have gotten the first down.

[HoofHearted]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Bad route. Cut in instead of up and that ball hits him in the chest

It’s not backyard ball. You can’t just make stuff up on the fly. The concept was double post. Gabe ran a post. It’s okay to admit Josh threw a bad ball.

[dave mcbride]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

In the redzone when everything is tighter, 1 second open is open. 

 

He had Singletary open.  Singletary chipped the DE before leaking out.  Allen wasn't under pressure, he could have dumped it off after....Allen wasn't patient enough.

We have over a minute left....

 

He marched us down the field going short.  We were picking up chunk yards without having to go down the field.  Then he changed it on that last throw for whatever reason.

And importantly, if they settle for a fg, you don’t to give the ball back to the vikings with, say, 45 seconds left and justin jefferson on the other side. 

[hemma]

Davis needs to spend some time with the DBs.  No effort to break up the crap pass.

[BananaB]

Just now, HoofHearted said:

It’s not backyard ball. You can’t just make stuff up on the fly. The concept was double post. Gabe ran a post. It’s okay to admit Josh threw a bad ball.

How do you know? Does everyone on the board have the playbook. The pass thrown sure looks like it wasn’t a double post. That’s what I’m saying, we don’t know for sure

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

How do you know? Does everyone on the board have the playbook. The pass thrown sure looks like it wasn’t a double post. That’s what I’m saying, we don’t know for sure

I know based on the other routes in the concept. Football is not complicated.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

How do we know he did? Bad throw or miscommunication, we really have no clue. We know Allen will take blame regardless because that’s who he is. Fact is these miscommunications between Allen and Davis have popped up at time between these two. You hardly see it out of Allen and Diggs though. 

 

Because Davis was open and Josh threw it to him.  

 

It was a bad throw.  Probably a bad decisions as there were better targets.

[fergie's ire]

53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This. To the extent there was a "makeable" throw to Davis it was a tough, low percentage play.

To me, this highlights the problem that Allen is having.  When he was playing great he was taking the easy throw.  Now, he is forcing throws when he doesn't have to.  Hit Singletary or Morris and you still probably have a first and goal.  There's no need to try and get the touchdown.  Yes, it was makeable...but why try?  Take what's given.