The 4th & 2 playcalling

[Einstein]

7 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Morse and Bates sealed the exact gap they were supposed to; Morse was even heading to the second level until he saw the 'backer heading for the wrong gap.

Saffold's brainfart at the snap forced the back out of the designed zero hole that was going to be an easy first down and probably a TD.

 

Hmm. Perhaps I need to watch it again. At first glance it looked like the play would not have worked even if Saffold did his job.

[BADOLBILZ]

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Sigh.

 

 

So you think you're smart?   Do you believe the odds are greater that a decently delivered short pass to a kick returning RB with a career yp reception over 9 yards is more likely to be tackled short by a single offset defender or that he totally eludes that tackle and scores a TD there?    It's the latter.    When you can get an elusive ball carrier in space against a single defender in 2022 that is winning football.   You are presuming an absolutely GREAT solo tackle by a defense that gave up well over 400 yards.

 

It perplexes me how nonsensical people can be in the face of facts/numbers.

 

If the argument is that Josh Allen can't be expected to recognize coverage and throw a short pass accurately...........then WTF is the point?   Just say the QB can't execute simple football plays and live with the results. 

[BananaB]

32 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Would you trust the defense at that point ?

 

Rousseau, White, Elam, Poyer and Hyde all out ... Edmunds didn't play the second half, that's 6 of 11 starters out of the game. They had given up a 70+ yard TD run in the third Q and we had no one who could slow down Jefferson.

Other then the first drive they did nothing until that one long run. We also get the ball back to counter anything they put on the board. No trust in O or D  to close a game so he tried to end it on one play. No trust in all their RBs to get 2 yards. Had 4 of them to choose from and the guy they felt most comfortable on the field during a crucial series was the guy off the PS. 

[Simon]

56 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Would you trust the defense at that point ?

 

Rousseau, White, Elam, Poyer and Hyde all out ... Edmunds didn't play the second half, that's 6 of 11 starters out of the game. They had given up a 70+ yard TD run in the third Q and we had no one who could slow down Jefferson.

 

I hate it, but it's a valid point.

At the time, I freely admit that I wanted him to go for it. 

[HoofHearted]

1 hour ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Let me ask this…. How many misdirection plays have you seen this year?

 

Minnesota did the same misdirection play where Cousins (play action, another thing bills don’t do) rolled out slightly to his right and threw back left…..

 

Any trick plays this year? Tennessee won from a trick play yesterday.

 

I just feel like the Bills think they are above being creative. Get creative, get innovative….. you gotta change it up every now and then.

Every RPO we run. There’s been quite a few. Plus a lot of our QB run game stuff has misdirection. The Tight End screen on the 2nd down call is pretty much exactly what you described the Vikings did - ours just didn’t work because they were in man.

 

It’s there if you look for it.

[Simon]

6 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

The third down play to Lil Dirty was there if he just flattens the route instead of drifting - which is why Josh double clutched it.

 

I thought he double clutched it because he was surprised to see Davis coming clean when he was supposed to be just clearing the zone for McKenzie, and he thought about going to him for a second.

1 minute ago, HoofHearted said:

Every RPO we run. There’s been quite a few. Plus a lot of our QB run game stuff has misdirection. The Tight End screen on the 2nd down call is pretty much exactly what you described the Vikings did - ours just didn’t work because they were in man.

 

It’s there if you look for it.

Looked like a zone dog with the End dropping instead of rushing.

It's probably the only call that prevents a TD.

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

I thought he double clutched it because he was surprised to see Davis coming clean when he was supposed to be just clearing the zone for McKenzie, and he thought about going to him for a second.

It’s possible. The play is set up to get McKenzie open, but Josh may have very well been trying to thread one to Gabe. Need the endzone shot to know for sure.

[Simon]

8 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

The play is set up to get McKenzie open, but Josh may have very well been trying to thread one to Gabe.

 

 

The DB is late on his assignment and Davis actually gets across his face. I think Allen saw it happening and almost went to him but then double clutched and went back to McKenzie on the original design, who was not only heading into traffic that should have been cleared by Davis, but with a throw that was now a half second late. 

 

[Billever76]

5 hours ago, msw2112 said:

 Hadn't seen this, but wow!  Not only is Davis wide open, but it's a completely clean pocket.  That should be an easy throw for any NFL QB, let alone one of Allen's caliber.  Allen may have been making other reads, but that picket was so clean that he had plenty of time to go to Davis.

I'm certain Allen seeing Mckenzie also in that same exact route it confused him...no way is that play designed to have both Mckenzie and Davis in the same area

[Simon]

Just now, Billever76 said:

I'm certain Allen seeing Mckenzie also in that same exact route it confused him...no way is that play designed to have both Mckenzie and Davis in the same area

 

It's exactly what it's designed for. Davis clears the coverage and McKenzie runs a route into the clearing zone.

imo, the Vikings secondary was late to react and it ironically left an extra guy in the spot the play was originally designed to attack and Allen had to adjust his throw. 

[Billever76]

Just now, Simon said:

 

It's exactly what it's designed for. Davis clears the coverage and McKenzie runs a route into the clearing zone.

imo, the Vikings secondary was late to react and it ironically left an extra guy in the spot the play was originally designed to attack and Allen had to adjust his throw. 

Well it sucks and should be buried in the playbook...as other have said in this post..we have ran that concept numerous times this yr and it hasn't worked yet.....

[HoofHearted]

20 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

 

The DB is late on his assignment and Davis actually gets across his face. I think Allen saw it happening and almost went to him but then double clutched and went back to McKenzie on the original design, who was not only heading into traffic that should have been cleared by Davis, but with a throw that was now a half second late. 

 

Just watched the highlight on here. Looks like Allen tried to adjust the throw to Gabe and just threw a dud… that was awful.

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Just watched the highlight on here. Looks like Allen tried to adjust the throw to Gabe and just threw a dud… that was awful.

 

yeah, that may have been the case also; if it was, it was an even worse throw than I thought.

[HoofHearted]

33 minutes ago, Simon said:

Looked like a zone dog with the End dropping instead of rushing.

It's probably the only call that prevents a TD.

It's 1 Rat.

[Simon]

11 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

It's 1 Rat.

 

Are you talking about the aborted screen to Knox where Morse was getting out?

I thought Allen turfed it because the RE dropped out.

 

I'll take your word for it though because you forgot more about defensive calls while you were eating dinner than I'll ever know. 

[HoofHearted]

12 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Are you talking about the aborted screen to Knox where Morse was getting out?

I thought Allen turfed it because the RE dropped out.

 

I'll take your word for it though because you forgot more about defensive calls while you were eating dinner than I'll ever know. 

He read the screen, yeah. All comes down to block recognition. Bills ran Long Trap action up front. Dawkins blocked down - if it were truly Long Trap Knox would have hinged the defensive end to that side, but instead he shows pass set which leaves the end unblocked. Most teams teach those guys to squat and squeeze because of all the QB read game now so that's what he does. Pretty easy for him to dissect from that point.

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by HoofHearted

[Simon]

12 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

He read the screen, yeah. All comes down to block recognition. Bills ran Long Trap action up front. Dawkins blocked down - if it were truly Long Trap Knox would have hinged the defensive end to that side, but instead he shows pass set which leaves the end unblocked. Most teams teach those guys to squat and squeeze because of all the QB read game now so that's what he does. Pretty easy for him to dissect from that point.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that.

Would it potentially be a more effective/deceptive design with the X off the LOS so Knox could set up in line with a hand on the ground?

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

Thanks for that.

Would it potentially be a more effective/deceptive design with the X off the LOS so Knox could set up in line with a hand on the ground?

It's more so that the end was lined up in a 9 tech. If he'd have been a 6 or a 5 Knox could have just chipped a down block and then release and the end probably wouldn't have re-directed.

[CEN-CAL17]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

Every RPO we run. There’s been quite a few. Plus a lot of our QB run game stuff has misdirection. The Tight End screen on the 2nd down call is pretty much exactly what you described the Vikings did - ours just didn’t work because they were in man.

 

It’s there if you look for it.

Seriously…. You’re standing on RPO and QB run plays as misdirection? Out TE screen called yesterday?

 

Thats what I should be looking for?… ok. 
 

Yeah those are killer misdirection plays.

[HoofHearted]

3 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Seriously…. You’re standing on RPO and QB run plays as misdirection? Out TE screen called yesterday?

 

Thats what I should be looking for?… ok. 
 

Yeah those are killer misdirection plays.

With that type of response I’m unsure if you even know what misdirection is.