Wawrow hints an Internal Issues with the Bills

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, muppy said:

I'll answer this. I thought of the term clickbait when reading his tweet because it has "baited" the diehards if the fanbase (aka 2bd posters) to react with conjecture of their own. Its baiting fans to care enough to reply to HIS conjecture. I mean Mr Wawrow does appear to be highly thought of in general. And posting what he did invites speculation. Scandal sells?

 

We all do love our speculation right? without it this board wouldnt be nearly as fun or informative. or even sometimes frustrating.

 

 

That's not who jw is and if he knows something,  he knows something.  What sucks for us as fans, he can't really say much more without losing his connections and damaging relationships. Knowing how much people care about this team,  he tries to give as much insight as he can...

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Yes, we now have an experienced HC who should have a much better handle on things. And the roster, by all measures, was superbowl worthy. We dont have time to waste it on coordinators who are not up to the task of the big challenges. Else we will forever keep generating excuses for incomplete seasons. 

 

Here is an idea for Beane:

- Bring in Reich to supplement the offensive staff. Give him whatever title he wants but his role should be to define the game plans, whisper in Allen's ear and be the calming voice when the opposing D is having their way with the O. 

- Give Reich a degree of control over Dorsey and bring back the short/intermediate passing game which focuses on moving the chains methodically

- Start using the pass catching talents of Singletary, Cook, Hines and Johnson

- Sign OBJ as insurance for the playoffs

- Consider (have to see if they are in game shape) evaluating Beasley and Sanders but only on the condition that their talents will be appropriately utilized

 

I think bringing in another person to the mix would be A Bad Plan, especially if you give him "a degree of control". 

 

First of all, what makes us believe that Frank Reich is a Game Plan Genius?  He had a 9-7 and a 4-12 year with Rivers in SD.  He had 7-9 and 13-3 years in Philly, where it was believed Pederson called the plays.   The Colts offense seemed to work pretty nicely in 2018 and 2020 - with Nick Sirianni as offensive coordinator and a good QB.  The wheels seemed to fall off with Marcus Brady as OC and Wentz as QB, then this year. 

 

So what is there in that which leads us to believe that Reich is the Man in the Cape who should be given the keys?

 

Second, the Bills already have a crowd around the OC with Joe Brady as QB coach and Aaron Kromer as OL coach, and .....JOHN BUTLER, the DB coach, as "Passing Game Coordinator".  Wait, Wat?  Did you all miss that little move made last February?

 

Maybe, as another thread suggests, part of the problem is "too many cooks" in the kitchen, and there's some confusion of authority between Dorsey, Brady, Butler, and Kromer.  Maybe the Bills need to quietly SIMPLIFY the command and control structure on the offensive side of the ball, and not complicate it more.

 

Beasley and Sanders have both retired from football.  When a man says he's retired, Believe Him.

[HoofHearted]

On 11/14/2022 at 7:18 AM, mrags said:

Singletary just sucks. But I will say that running him on a draw out of the shotgun is just dumb.

We hardly ever run draws. Just fyi.

[Beck Water]

43 minutes ago, boyst said:

McDermott only needs to address these problems to the team. I don't think he can own a mistake. I don't think he will, either. 

 

I don't think McDermott would have reached his current position without being able and willing to own his mistakes - to "tell the truth" to himself.  It's a necessary trait of leaders.  For example, it was reported that when McDermott made the mistake of starting Nate Peterman and benching Tyrod Taylor (said to be at the urging of Rico Dennison), McDermott owned the mistake in front of the team in an internal team meeting.  So he can and will own mistakes. 

 

Publicly and to the press, he said he did not regret it.    Whether he owns mistakes internally or publicly, is his own affair.  He is not obligated to own mistakes to the media or to the fans, just to himself and his staff and his team.

 

5 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

We hardly ever run draws. Just fyi.

 

FWIW Dorsey comments "we hit some draws on them" in the long drive (in response to a question about run/pass balance ending in 4th and 2)

About 1:40 into his presser

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/ken-dorsey-make-sure-we-re-learning-from-these-experiences

Edited November 15, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

40 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

3 are on Josh,  I posted the video in this thread,  Josh was trying to run before the ball was even snapped to him.  So 3 are on him...

 

I believe you, and I'm sure having sat down and looked at the tape, McDermott would agree.  Allen also owns it.

 

But my post was addressed to another poster's assertion McDermott was "throwing Josh under the bus" by saying it's hard to win when you turn the ball over 4 times, immediately post game in his presser.  He in fact specifically mentioned interior OL in that presser.

 

My point is:

1) it's pretty well known and agreed that turnovers and turnover differential are key indicators of whether a team will win the game.  This isn't new or controversial.  And if the turnovers are INTs, the QB is usually responsible. 

2) at the time McDermott said it, in his press conference, what he knew is that Josh threw a critical game-ending INT (and another on 4th and 2) and there were 2 fumbles, one on the QB-center exchange

 

Therefore what he said in his post-game presser was not intended to throw Josh under the bus, because 1) at the time Josh was known to be responsible for 2 of 4 and 2) it's basically a truism that a team can't win when they turn the ball over and lose the turnover differential.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Beck Water

[HoofHearted]

22 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

FWIW Dorsey comments "we hit some draws on them" in the long drive (in response to a question about run/pass balance ending in 4th and 2)

About 1:40 into his presser

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/ken-dorsey-make-sure-we-re-learning-from-these-experiences

I'm just picking at the notion that every run out of shotgun is a "shotgun draw" to some around here. We do not run them very often.

[Mattymafia]

6-3 and people are already calling for McDermott to be gone? This fan base has gone insane. Daboll had a lot of stinkers as OC, I was fine letting him walk 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

28 pages about a personal thought, observation, opinion.  

 

Literally nothing he said remotely suggests there is an issue.  He, as a journalist, stated their are internal issues because we lost 2 games where we beat ourselves.  Things we need to solve because its been self inflicted.  

 

Literally nothing he said reads as if there is an unreported, but yet known, issue of some internal drama.  Further proof of that would be that he would have written more specifically about that because nothing else he wrote would get the attention and clicks talking about internal drama would have gotten.  

 

You guys are just trying to force a story here off someones off the cuff comment.  This is the problem with society today, they manufacture stories to fit narratives they want to see.

If there was an issue, you are the sort of fan who would be the last to accept it.

There were a LOT of die hard Sabres fans at Sabres forums saying "HAVE PATIENCE" until the day Ron Rolston (!) was fired...and they would argue until blue in the face that the organization was in good hands.

That was quite a few coaches ago and many years!  Meanwhile, the Sabres still haven't made the playoffs, likely will not this season, and we are still waiting to get out of the wilderness.

I always think of those Sabres "have patience" posts with freaking Ron Rolston, who is nowhere  close to coaching now in the NHL, and ranks as a Top 3 worst HC in Sabres history.

 

It gets frustrating for those of us who are into reality, objectivity, and just discussing things as they are, regardless of whether or not they are what we would like to be.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Nextmanup

[Yawning Frog]

It seemed like the Bills lost their edge at the start of the 2nd half in the Packers game.

[Mango]

6 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

I really think Davis should have bent the route.  Morris pulled the safety out of the way, Josh waited for the linebacker to move toward Singletary, and if Davis flattens it's a touchdown.  

I also thought Diggs should have turned around sooner. It’s 2nd and 10. The play call feels like a kill shot,  but the WR are committed to it too on this one. Which is weird because coverage is pretty good and passing lanes are covered. 
 

Feels like the right defense for the right play.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, sullim4 said:

 

See, this is the issue I take with it though.  If this is all he could say... then just don't say anything until you can report on the complete story.

 

Yes, this is a fine line to walk at times, but I think in this particular case, after two brutal losses and with a disgruntled fanbase ready with pitchforks and torches, the decision to leak this tidbit feels more about clicks and getting people to talk about what he knows and less about reporting on the franchise.

 

I mean - this thread is exhibit A.  We're now at 28 pages speculating on what this could be.  It puts the team in an odd position where any journalist worth their salt should be asking McD about this at his next press conference.  Wawrow has enough credibility that there's very likely some truth to this so now either McD has to deny it (which probably is misleading at best and an outright lie at worst), sidestep the question, or very unlikely, address it head on.

That’s one opinion. I - like many here - would rather have the information. Often times it’s not too difficult to figure out what is happening. A couple very well informed posters here seem to have done that. 
 

But I don’t believe a lack of full picture is what is really bothering some people. I think their issue is that a Bills beat writer said that there is a problem with the team. True or not, they don’t want to hear that. 

[Fan in Chicago]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

You claim he's a "big game winner"

 

His team won, what, 9 games last year, and was blown out in the playoffs?

 

I'm just saying a bit more time may be in order.

 

My claim is that the path to good success is shorter than we Bills fans have become accustomed to. 

[Beck Water]

25 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I'm just picking at the notion that every run out of shotgun is a "shotgun draw" to some around here. We do not run them very often.

 

Ah, Gotcha.  I have not myself watched all-22, nor do I have the "eye" to figure out what the play design is from broadcast film.  I was just making the point that apparently there were some draw plays on that drive.

[SectionC3]

9 minutes ago, Mango said:

I also thought Diggs should have turned around sooner. It’s 2nd and 10. The play call feels like a kill shot,  but the WR are committed to it too on this one. Which is weird because coverage is pretty good and passing lanes are covered. 
 

Feels like the right defense for the right play.

Good play by Peterson too.  We could have beaten it with the right route from Davis.  But Peterson made a really nice play.  

[Fan in Chicago]

55 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think bringing in another person to the mix would be A Bad Plan, especially if you give him "a degree of control". 

 

First of all, what makes us believe that Frank Reich is a Game Plan Genius?  He had a 9-7 and a 4-12 year with Rivers in SD.  He had 7-9 and 13-3 years in Philly, where it was believed Pederson called the plays.   The Colts offense seemed to work pretty nicely in 2018 and 2020 - with Nick Sirianni as offensive coordinator and a good QB.  The wheels seemed to fall off with Marcus Brady as OC and Wentz as QB, then this year. 

 

So what is there in that which leads us to believe that Reich is the Man in the Cape who should be given the keys?

 

Second, the Bills already have a crowd around the OC with Joe Brady as QB coach and Aaron Kromer as OL coach, and .....JOHN BUTLER, the DB coach, as "Passing Game Coordinator".  Wait, Wat?  Did you all miss that little move made last February?

 

Maybe, as another thread suggests, part of the problem is "too many cooks" in the kitchen, and there's some confusion of authority between Dorsey, Brady, Butler, and Kromer.  Maybe the Bills need to quietly SIMPLIFY the command and control structure on the offensive side of the ball, and not complicate it more.

 

Beasley and Sanders have both retired from football.  When a man says he's retired, Believe Him.

Ha. I did actually miss the move re: John Butler. 

 

My suggestion for bringing in Reich is as an experienced coach and player (yea, I know Dorsey played too) who may be a more level headed voice than Dorsey. Look, I am not going to push this idea hard. I just see the O not being able to fix its issues and am looking for a solution, in this season, to avoid staying the same or getting worse. I cannot continue to blame the talent on the receiving side for the O's woes. We are not using all the personnel available with their skill set. Why is this happening in 2022 after the fantastic 2020 and 2021 seasons (ignore the 2-3 games of ineptitude). 

 

Whats wrong ? Why has Allen suddenly become careless? Where is clutch Allen?

[Mango]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

Good play by Peterson too.  We could have beaten it with the right route from Davis.  But Peterson made a really nice play.  

I would love to be a fly on the wall and be able to see the play call vs. the play ran.

 

The running game is going. Like 7 different players catch the ball in the first half. 
 

The suddenly…constant shots at the end zone. Target Diggs like 12 times alone in the second half.  Nobody else for 3 targets. Then only run the ball like 4 times.

 

I just need to know who is doing the cocaine at half time? Allen or Dorsey?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

My claim is that the path to good success is shorter than we Bills fans have become accustomed to. 

 

They had a lot less distance to cover

 

larger market, more recent success, et cetera ad infinitum

 

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

That’s one opinion. I - like many here - would rather have the information. Often times it’s not too difficult to figure out what is happening. A couple very well informed posters here seem to have done that. 
 

But I don’t believe a lack of full picture is what is really bothering some people. I think their issue is that a Bills beat writer said that there is a problem with the team. True or not, they don’t want to hear that. 

 

My guess - and this is a guess by analogy from being involved in a bunch of project teams including prize-winning teams in my line of work - is that there is probably internal conflict and dissent on almost every winning football team.  It bubbles under the surface when things go well, and emerges like Swamp Thing (remember that comic?) when adversity strikes. 

 

Coaches don't become HC or coordinators seeking the opportunity to become HC without sizeable egos.  Top players invariably have egos.  Didn't Bruce Smith or another member of the Superbowl Bills famously say to Marv Levy "I don't know how you managed all of the egos" to which Levy riposted "Neither do I"?

 

I'm sure there was dissent between Daboll and McDermott last year when McDermott was publicly pressuring Daboll for a better run game, while Daboll was pushing back "we only have 1 first round pick on the offensive side of the ball".  As someone commented when that storyline came out with the Flores situation "it's not uncommon".  I'm sure there is some feeling "WTF, we're supposed to have a top run defense and you guys give up >150 yds on the ground 2 weeks running?". 

 

There are probably team feelings about Tre White being on the active roster but not playing while Poyer and Elam are out, Jackson is playing through some kind of stinger and Benford played through a broken hand.  He's now missed 4 weeks, so the question must get raised "why didn't they put him on IR and let another guy "get fed" on the active roster?" or maybe just keep him on PUP longer?

 

There are probably feelings about the RB not getting more chance because if he isn't kept here, Singletary wants to be able to make a case for a good contract.  Davis wants to make a case for himself.  Knox wants to justify the contract he got.  

 

Meanwhile, I don't believe for a "team-first" say-the-right-thing in public minute that Diggs doesn't want recognition as a top WR in this league or Josh doesn't want to be league MVP; he isn't gonna get there by dinkin' and dunkin'.

 

I'm sure it's a constant balancing act to manage and balance all that and leash the egos and if the coaches don't have the right whips-and-chairs handy, it can probably spiral out of control damned quickly.

[vincec]

6 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Because teams are selling out to defend the pass and Josh is struggling at the moment. So we would like to take some of the pressure off of him and make his job easier. Opening up more opportunities with play action or just keeping defenses off balance. 

The Bills don't have the personnel to run the ball beyond a change of pace, IMO. They're just going to be slamming Singletary against a wall and ending up in 2nd and 3rd and long situations which will lead even more trouble passing.

Edited November 15, 2022 by vincec

[Kirby Jackson]

7 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Sean Payton?  The guy who coached for 962 years, had a coke problem and won the SB a grand total of one time?  That’s your “proven” commodity?  Why not just dust off Brian Billeck?  

Sean Payton is the best offensive mind in the world. Yes, he’s an arrogant cokehead. He’s is ABSOLUTELY the answer to getting you over the top. 1000%