Wawrow hints an Internal Issues with the Bills

[Golden*Wheels]

6 minutes ago, Gisele said:

And Davis stopping his motion behind Allen is a big time tell.  That made it easy for the D to know when the ball was being snapped.

Hes the pusher in motion every time it seems.

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I think that is where the committee approach comes in.

 

What is an effective game plan for the 2nd half?

 

What adjustments need to be made?

 

How do we better utilize our RBs and quick throws underneath to keep drives alive and limit the risky off schedule plays?

 

Are you saying our offense does not need fixing?

 

 

 

 

The problem I have noticed in the 2nd half is teams adjust to stop whatever the Bills did well to run the ball in the 1st half.  It doesn't normally take much to get the Bills out of running the ball to begin with, but once they start getting nothing or losing yards on 1st down, it makes it even easier.  Bills need to stick with it, OR know there will be an adjustment and start doing other things to mix it up. Outside runs, reverses, some non shotgun runs, etc...

 

But overall, it's not like the Bills are being stopped offensively, they are still moving the ball down the field for the most part, it's bad decisions in the RZ that are killing them in the last 3, and in the Miami game, just bad execution.

[pocoboy]

1 minute ago, BillsSbSoon said:

If there’s anything to this I’m guessing it might be the defense getting frustrated with mcd and Allen’s insistence on going for it on 4th downs. We had that game in control. That friggin pick swung the whole game around. Take the damn 3pts. The more I think about it the more angering it gets. We shouldntve lost yesterday. 

 

Please elaborate on the 13 point lead vs the 10 point lead. This might be fun.

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

The problem I have noticed in the 2nd half is teams adjust to stop whatever the Bills did well to run the ball in the 1st half.  It doesn't normally take much to get the Bills out of running the ball to begin with, but once they start getting nothing or losing yards on 1st down, it makes it even easier.  Bills need to stick with it, OR know there will be an adjustment and start doing other things to mix it up. Outside runs, reverses, some non shotgun runs, etc...

 

 

I'm not sure how many of these decisions end up QB check. With a 17 point lead, they are going to give you looks that might make the QB say, "We shouldn't run here, they are taking that away." But with that lead, there should be additional considerations given to the desire to eat clock or timeouts. There could also be how the defense is faring even with added guys 'in the box'...if you were to continue to commit to the run, you could wear out the starting defense more & make future efforts (both run and pass) easier.

 

And I don't know if you can really take the audible reins from Allen. He is out there, he calls the shots, are you going to bench him?

 

[BillsSbSoon]

5 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

Please elaborate on the 13 point lead vs the 10 point lead. This might be fun.

Ever heard of a momentum swing? It’s a real thing in football.

[nedboy7]

18 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Vrabel is genuinely a great coach.

 

What he did to the Chiefs WITHOUT a starting QB is absolutely amazing.

 

They should have been blown out in that game, but he had a genius gameplan.

 

Look at what McD did with Tyrod. 

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBear said:

Exactly.  486 yards and 30 points.  Dorsey didn't hand the ball to the Vikes 4 times.

 

It all comes down to lapses in concentration, sloppy play and being careless with the ball - and 90% of it falls on Allen.  I LOVE the guy, but he needs to take the easy stuff for the good of the team.  If we have to punt occasionally, so be it.  It's part of the game and everyone does it.

I can't stand how he refuses to check down. He had Motor for an easy 7-10 yards on that last play. Maybe he makes a cpl guys miss and gets more

[WideNine]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

A quarterback sneak was never going to lead to a kneel down.

 

You need to get to the 4 yard to have enough space for a kneel down.

 

In no realistic scenario is that QB sneak leading us to the 4 yard line.

 

And as you mentioned, how are we still not knocking the ball down? Did Fail Murray really not teach us!?

 

There is zero excuse for this being a catch.

 

 

I think what he is saying is that with  4 point lead the ONLY thing our offense had to do was not turn it over for a TD.

 

A safety would have only netted them 2 points and then we could then punt from our 20 with very little time on the clock for MN to get in FG range.

 

Sending Allen into the teeth of their defense on a very unsneaky sneak play, where MN completely sold out to stop the run was a baffling, terrible call.

 

It would not have netted much nor have gotten them out of the shadow of the goal posts.

 

Especially bad when you consider how poorly our OL usually is at moving folks out on short yardage, and how shakey Allen's play had been.

 

 

[Bob in STL]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

Running a team effectively is as much motivation through team building practices as it is embracing the culture doesn't see the reward beyond a collective goal. This is true for any team from contractors and low end employees to high end movie starts and sports divas. 

 

If McD was doing the job we think he is we wouldn't have had Diggs, Poyer and others upset over money. We would not have some of the problems we have 

 

Beane is also part of this factor because he has the purse strings but this is McDermotts team. 

 

 

While Poyer did want to renegotiate, even though he is not up for it, the Bills did make a move to improve his incentive clauses.  Poyer chose to ride in a car for 17 hours to play against KC when he could have stay home injured.  Not the sign of a malcontent.  

 

You basically made up everything else -  like Diggs' contract, Araiza, Beasley ... all conjecture on your part.  You have nothing to support these claims.  

 

The only thing that might be realis Daboll and McD maybe not on the same page, but even that is conjecture since Daboll's ultimate goal was to be a HC.  

 

Sorry, you are grasping with no facts, you are just throwing things out there.   This is why a "journalist" like John Warrow, should either report the whole truth, or nothing at all.   

[Einstein]

Just now, WideNine said:

Sending Allen into the teeth of their defense on a very unsneaky sneak play, where MN completely sold out to stop the run was a baffling, terrible call.

 

It would not have netted much nor have gotten them out of the shadow of the goal posts.

 

Especially bad when you consider how poorly our OL usually is at moving folks out on short yardage, and how shakey Allen's play had been.

 

Exactly.

[TheBrownBear]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

I can't stand how he refuses to check down. He had Motor for an easy 7-10 yards on that last play. Maybe he makes a cpl guys miss and gets more

I agree.  In most of Josh's best games, he takes the checkdowns early and often and it opens up the rest of the field for him.  He did this effectively in the NE playoff game and it's why we were able to gash them over and over again.  I'm not sure how many times Josh needs to bang his head against the wall before he finally learns this lesson.

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

Running a team effectively is as much motivation through team building practices as it is embracing the culture doesn't see the reward beyond a collective goal. This is true for any team from contractors and low end employees to high end movie starts and sports divas. 

 

If McD was doing the job we think he is we wouldn't have had Diggs, Poyer and others upset over money. We would not have some of the problems we have 

 

Beane is also part of this factor because he has the purse strings but this is McDermotts team. 

Players wanting to be better compensated is an issue every team has. Name one team that hasn’t had that issue.

 

Is Andy Reid not a good coach because Tyreek Hill and Kelce wanted to get paid? 

Is Sean Payton not a good coach because drew Brees and Kamara wanted a raise?

Is bill Belichick not a good coach because lots of players wanted raises over the years?

Is Kyle Shanahan not a good coach because Deebo wanted a raise, and even asked for a trade?

 

 

There we’re no reports that Diggs was unhappy here. Just the opposite. He said he wants to finish his career here, even before he signed his current deal. Him getting that raise was just as much about Beane getting out in front of the WR market as it was about Diggs wanting a raise. Beane said from day 1 of the trade that he knew he’d have to address Diggs contract.

 

Poyer hasn’t said he’s unhappy either. He also said he wants to retire here. He just wants to be paid top of the market safety money. He’s been underpaid up until his last deal. I think his wife (or gf?) is pushing him hard to get as much money as he can too, at least going by what she’s posted on social media. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by BillsFan4

[JerseyBills]

22 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

A quarterback sneak was never going to lead to a kneel down.

 

You need to get to the 4 yard to have enough space for a kneel down.

 

In no realistic scenario is that QB sneak leading us to the 4 yard line.

 

And as you mentioned, how are we still not knocking the ball down? Did Fail Murray really not teach us!?

 

There is zero excuse for this being a catch.

 

I agree. In his defense he did leave his feet for what looked like he thought would be an easy int and Jefferson did this but ya , he should have def knocked it away. Game over. 

 

It was another fluke Loss. It took this , a fumbled snap and RZ int 

 

Bills just have to clean things up and we'll be great going into the playoffs. That should have been Poyer right there

[boyst]

1 minute ago, Bob in STL said:

 

 

While Poyer did want to renegotiate, even though he is not up for it, the Bills did make a move to improve his incentive clauses.  Poyer chose to ride in a car for 17 hours to play against KC when he could have stay home injured.  Not the sign of a malcontent.  

 

You basically made up everything else -  like Diggs' contract, Araiza, Beasley ... all conjecture on your part.  You have nothing to support these claims.  

 

The only thing that might be realis Daboll and McD maybe not on the same page, but even that is conjecture since Daboll's ultimate goal was to be a HC.  

 

Sorry, you are grasping with no facts, you are just throwing things out there.   This is why a "journalist" like John Warrow, should either report the whole truth, or nothing at all.   

• Diggs was openly vocal and there was enough chatter even here that people knew he was upset at the pay day every other WR was getting while the team kept telling him he was the fundamental part of our future. this was causing an issue in the room, not a major issue but still an issue.
• Araiza was a hiccup for the team focused on dialing it in for the season. it never seemed to cause an effect on anyone, though.
• Poyer isn't malcontent but it is a known issue on the team he wants the deal, and some frustration was there that we brought in some outside help before bringing him to the table. common knowledge, as well.
• Beasley was talked about enough and enough chatter came out of the locker room and team to verify this.

Of all the stuff you say is wrong - which is easily backed up by whats in the media and fanbase - you openly agree with something that was kept very much behind the scenes - Daboll being upset. i found that funny because so little was said of that and the only glimpse was the Miami coach bringing it up to go to the Giants.

 

you don't have to take my word for it but i hear enough from the team about the team from people that i don't just make things up.

 

you can say "journalist" about Wawrow but if you've met him and had a conversation with him you would understand why he says things the way he does. if he is making an off the cuff statement at all then he is frustrated and knows his sources are strong enough he can make a vague statement. the guy doesn't post rubbish - he cannot due to AP policy. (he must have a direct source and verification of said source if not a second source...and if someone is talking to him there is some problems in the team).

[SCBills]

18 minutes ago, sven233 said:

The two biggest problems I have with this team right now is the defensive philosophy on 3rd and 4th and long and the lack of creativity on offense from Dorsey.  It never fails that on 3rd and 10+ (really 3rd or 4th and 15+), this team either gives up the whole thing or always gives up enough to allow the other team to make the decision to go for it.  They play this style where they back off, let the catch happen, and then rally to the ball.  They do it just about every time.  And in a lot of cases, they either get the whole thing because of poor tackling or they come up a yard short and then get it on 4th down because they can easily make the decision to go for it.  There are other things that really bug me about the defense they play, but I could write a book on those. 

 

As for my Dorsey point.....I'm not going to get on him too much.  First time calling plays and I think he's done a pretty good job overall.  But the problem is that he isn't adjusting right now.  The first few weeks he was rolling and putting up points, but as soon as there was some game tape out there, teams are catching on to what he is doing.  There is very limited creativity and he is not playing to his guy's strengths.  No sweeps, jet action, no scheming certain guys open, etc.  While Dabol had his flaws, creativity wasn't one of them.  He created layups for players to get open.  He used Dirty in the way he can actually help the team instead of hurt us.  It wasn't perfect, but he got more out of the lesser players on offense.  Right now, Dorsey is throwing guys out there and just hope they win their match ups.  Unfortunately the only one that can do that consistently is Diggs.  It's time he starts manufacturing plays for certain guys and get them in space.  Guys like Cook and Hines are great with the ball in space.  So find ways to manufacture those plays.

 

There are issues on this team for sure.  But my panic level is like a 3.  There is a lot of talent on this team and I still believe Allen is the best in the league when he's on.  They'll get right.  But they need to start winning some of these games because of coaching, and not in spite of it.

 

Such an underrated comment.  They constantly allow just enough for the other team to go for it.   It's maddening.  

[BillsFan4]

7 minutes ago, boyst said:

you can say "journalist" about Wawrow but if you've met him and had a conversation with him you would understand why he says things the way he does. if he is making an off the cuff statement at all then he is frustrated and knows his sources are strong enough he can make a vague statement. the guy doesn't post rubbish - he cannot due to AP policy. (he must have a direct source and verification of said source if not a second source...and if someone is talking to him there is some problems in the team).

this only applies to published articles and interviews that go through the editor’s desk.

 

https://www.ap.org/about/news-values-and-principles/telling-the-story/anonymous-sources

 

edit - btw, I do agree that the AP is a trustworthy news source.

Edited November 14, 2022 by BillsFan4

[UKBillFan]

5 minutes ago, boyst said:

• Diggs was openly vocal and there was enough chatter even here that people knew he was upset at the pay day every other WR was getting while the team kept telling him he was the fundamental part of our future. this was causing an issue in the room, not a major issue but still an issue.
• Araiza was a hiccup for the team focused on dialing it in for the season. it never seemed to cause an effect on anyone, though.
• Poyer isn't malcontent but it is a known issue on the team he wants the deal, and some frustration was there that we brought in some outside help before bringing him to the table. common knowledge, as well.
• Beasley was talked about enough and enough chatter came out of the locker room and team to verify this.

Of all the stuff you say is wrong - which is easily backed up by whats in the media and fanbase - you openly agree with something that was kept very much behind the scenes - Daboll being upset. i found that funny because so little was said of that and the only glimpse was the Miami coach bringing it up to go to the Giants.

 

you don't have to take my word for it but i hear enough from the team about the team from people that i don't just make things up.

 

you can say "journalist" about Wawrow but if you've met him and had a conversation with him you would understand why he says things the way he does. if he is making an off the cuff statement at all then he is frustrated and knows his sources are strong enough he can make a vague statement. the guy doesn't post rubbish - he cannot due to AP policy. (he must have a direct source and verification of said source if not a second source...and if someone is talking to him there is some problems in the team).

 

Then reveal all or stay quiet. Don't prod the hornet's nest then run away saying he can't say more. Pathetic attention seeking and little more from him.

[CountDorkula]

14 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I think what he is saying is that with  4 point lead the ONLY thing our offense had to do was not turn it over for a TD.

 

A safety would have only netted them 2 points and then we could then punt from our 20 with very little time on the clock for MN to get in FG range.

 

Sending Allen into the teeth of their defense on a very unsneaky sneak play, where MN completely sold out to stop the run was a baffling, terrible call.

 

It would not have netted much nor have gotten them out of the shadow of the goal posts.

 

Especially bad when you consider how poorly our OL usually is at moving folks out on short yardage, and how shakey Allen's play had been.

 

 

OK then so why on fourth and inches when the entire defense knows a quarterback sneak is coming is it successful over 90% of the time. 
 

The call was fine. The Bills needed to get 0 yards and they’d still be fine. 
 

josh Allen botched it. That’s not coaching that’s execution. End of story. 

[nucci]

17 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I think what he is saying is that with  4 point lead the ONLY thing our offense had to do was not turn it over for a TD.

 

A safety would have only netted them 2 points and then we could then punt from our 20 with very little time on the clock for MN to get in FG range.

 

Sending Allen into the teeth of their defense on a very unsneaky sneak play, where MN completely sold out to stop the run was a baffling, terrible call.

 

It would not have netted much nor have gotten them out of the shadow of the goal posts.

 

Especially bad when you consider how poorly our OL usually is at moving folks out on short yardage, and how shakey Allen's play had been.

 

 

he doesn't fumble the snap the game is over

[Big Turk]

Wawrow reminds me of Trent Graham from the Independent in Ted Lasso.

Just now, nucci said:

he doesn't fumble the snap the game is over

 

I think he likely gets stuffed for a safety and the Bills have to punt the ball back.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Big Turk

[WideNine]

20 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The problem I have noticed in the 2nd half is teams adjust to stop whatever the Bills did well to run the ball in the 1st half.  It doesn't normally take much to get the Bills out of running the ball to begin with, but once they start getting nothing or losing yards on 1st down, it makes it even easier.  Bills need to stick with it, OR know there will be an adjustment and start doing other things to mix it up. Outside runs, reverses, some non shotgun runs, etc...

 

But overall, it's not like the Bills are being stopped offensively, they are still moving the ball down the field for the most part, it's bad decisions in the RZ that are killing them in the last 3, and in the Miami game, just bad execution.

 

I don't like how we got so predictable running on most first downs out of our 11 personnel (I believe Knox was out there usually).

 

It begged for an OC that knows how to setup a defense and then counter punch.

 

MN kept coming on run blitzes and were ripe for a quick play action pass, or something different behind that to keep them off balance.

 

It was predictable and helped put us in too many 3rd and long situations.