Wawrow hints an Internal Issues with the Bills

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

The last two teams to win the SB were the Bucs and Rams...both of whom had similar stretches in the middle of the year. TB lost 3 of 4 games including a 38-3 blowout to NO and were 7-5. Rams lost 3 in a row including a 31-10 rout by the 49ers and were 7-4.

 

Both recovered and lost a total of one  game after that combined on the way to their SB wins.

 

There is no reason the Bills can't do this. They have the talent to. They just need to stop beating themselves firstly. Because they haven't had another team beat them yet this year in all honesty.

Of course the Bills CAN do this!  Who would argue that?

 

The point is that you have to play percentages in life, and recent developments suggest that they are unlikely to do what you say we can do.

 

I'm just playing the odds here (with regards to something like us winning the SB).

 

If Josh doesn't get his head right, and fast, the season will likely be lost.

 

Missing the playoffs is not out of the question right now too! 

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

Speculation?  About what? I've done nothing but describe the weirdest episode in S&B history!

 

You think it was random chance that McDermott did the segments with different hosts after that incident? 

 

You didn't hear the segment!  McDermott HATES Schopp...and even moreso vice versa.

 

That's quite obvious for any routine listeners.

 

I do love how various posters now will RUSH to the "defense" of Sean McDermott.

LOL

 

 

 

I am not arguing about the call.   I remember listening to it.   I remember it a little different, feel like the exact argument was about how Sean uses analytics for his game day decisions.    When Sean didn't answer the question the way Schopp wanted, per his usual routine, Schopp kept on him until McDermott got annoyed. 

 

The specific conjecture I am referring to is how you say McDermott HATES Schopp, or even more vice versa.   What was happening to Schopp off the air.   And furthermore calling the Coach a religious zealot.   Zealot is hyperbolic.  You have no idea how Schopp or McDermott feel about one another.  You also have no idea what has since happened between the two since the incident.   You are inferring that both Coach and Schopp arent mature enough to move past an emotional situation.   You're assigning a bunch of people specific feelings you literally have no idea about.  Furthermore, you're stereotyping people of a certain religion as "not in control of their own minds or thoughts.

 

Whether you believe it or not, you align yourself with certain ideals as well.  It doesnt make you brainwashed.   Personally feel like your entire post comes across foolish and immature.

[What a Tuel]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Of course the Bills CAN do this!  Who would argue that?

 

The point is that you have to play percentages in life, and recent developments suggest that they are unlikely to do what you say we can do.

 

I'm just playing the odds here (with regards to something like us winning the SB).

 

If Josh doesn't get his head right, and fast, the season will likely be lost.

 

Missing the playoffs is not out of the question right now too! 

 

 

I am not sure you understand his point when you double down and say this. His specific point was that both the Rams and Bucs had these moments mid season which would have been your "recent developments suggest they are unlikely to do it"

[frostbitmic]

Josh' endorsement of Dorsey landed Dorsey the job.

 

We're the 4th highest scoring team in the league, so putting up points isn't a problem. We'd score even more points if someone told Josh that Christmas isn't until late December not late October early November, he's been overly generous the past month.

 

I'm guessing the tweet from Wawrow, was nothing more than clickbait. Then again, I believe McD had issues with Daboll last year, so maybe he's having issues with Dorsey or Frazier or the medical staff or the training staff with all the injuries, or the beer vendors or the parking lot attendants.

 

McD cost us three points by not going for an easy FG in the 4th Q to give us a 30-17 lead, and those three points IMO, cost us the game.

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Josh' endorsement of Dorsey landed Dorsey the job.

 

We're the 4th highest scoring team in the league, so putting up points isn't a problem. We'd score even more points if someone told Josh that Christmas isn't until late December not late October early November, he's been overly generous the past month.

 

I'm guessing the tweet from Wawrow, was nothing more than clickbait. Then again, I believe McD had issues with Daboll last year, so maybe he's having issues with Dorsey or Frazier or the medical staff or the training staff with all the injuries, or the beer vendors or the parking lot attendants.

 

McD cost us three points by not going for an easy FG in the 4th Q to give us a 30-17 lead, and those three points IMO, cost us the game.

 

I actually 100% agreed with the decision to go for it there.  

 

Up 17 probably ends it.  Up 13, after just giving up a big play and the defense out there playing well at the time, but with so many backups (remember Edmunds is now out at this point) would have screamed to me that we're content taking this game down to the wire.  

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by SCBills

[sven233]

The two biggest problems I have with this team right now is the defensive philosophy on 3rd and 4th and long and the lack of creativity on offense from Dorsey.  It never fails that on 3rd and 10+ (really 3rd or 4th and 15+), this team either gives up the whole thing or always gives up enough to allow the other team to make the decision to go for it.  They play this style where they back off, let the catch happen, and then rally to the ball.  They do it just about every time.  And in a lot of cases, they either get the whole thing because of poor tackling or they come up a yard short and then get it on 4th down because they can easily make the decision to go for it.  There are other things that really bug me about the defense they play, but I could write a book on those. 

 

As for my Dorsey point.....I'm not going to get on him too much.  First time calling plays and I think he's done a pretty good job overall.  But the problem is that he isn't adjusting right now.  The first few weeks he was rolling and putting up points, but as soon as there was some game tape out there, teams are catching on to what he is doing.  There is very limited creativity and he is not playing to his guy's strengths.  No sweeps, jet action, no scheming certain guys open, etc.  While Dabol had his flaws, creativity wasn't one of them.  He created layups for players to get open.  He used Dirty in the way he can actually help the team instead of hurt us.  It wasn't perfect, but he got more out of the lesser players on offense.  Right now, Dorsey is throwing guys out there and just hope they win their match ups.  Unfortunately the only one that can do that consistently is Diggs.  It's time he starts manufacturing plays for certain guys and get them in space.  Guys like Cook and Hines are great with the ball in space.  So find ways to manufacture those plays.

 

There are issues on this team for sure.  But my panic level is like a 3.  There is a lot of talent on this team and I still believe Allen is the best in the league when he's on.  They'll get right.  But they need to start winning some of these games because of coaching, and not in spite of it.

[WideNine]

I don't think blowing things up usually works as a high percentage plan.

 

Look at the doomed Titans who have managed to reset and stay competitive after looking like hot garbage early.

 

I do think there are serious questions as to whether Dorsey is in over his head.

 

Frazier is a known commodity and is dealing with a ton of injuries. Dorsey on the other hand does not have that luxury of having a proven track record as an OC.

 

The question for Sean and Beane is what do you do from here to course-correct?

 

I think they likely go with more of an OC by committee approach to see if they can right the ship.

 

Off season who knows.

 

 

 

 

 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, WideNine said:

I don't think blowing things up usually works as a high percentage plan.

 

Look at the doomed Titans who have managed to reset and stay competitive after looking like hot garbage early.

 

I do think there are serious questions as to whether Dorsey is in over his head.

 

Frazier is a known commodity and is dealing with a ton of injuries. Dorsey on the other hand does not have that luxury of having a proven track record as an OC.

 

The question for Sean and Beane is what do you do from here to course-correct?

 

I think they likely go with more of an OC by committee approach to see if they can right the ship.

 

Off season who knows

 

Vrabel is genuinely a great coach.

 

What he did to the Chiefs WITHOUT a starting QB is absolutely amazing.

 

They should have been blown out in that game, but he had a genius gameplan.

[SectionC3]

36 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

True. If Allen hadn’t fumbled, it’s likely a safety instead of a touchdown. Or, maybe, best case scenario, they get back to the line of scrimmage. Still, a bad coaching decision. 

 

Morse got blown off the ball (red arrow below). Just like the interior o-line had been blown off the ball all day. There was just very little chance of success on this play. Looking at it over and over, maybe Josh can hop and push to the right for one yard? If that happened, then they’re in the same situation. 2nd and 9 from the 1 yard line and they still can’t kneel the ball.

 

 

Here’s my take:

 

1.  I initially thought Morse surprised Allen with the snap, and that the idea was to try to draw the Vikings offside and to take a delay.  Upon further reflection, I don’t think that’s the case, because

 

2.  Allen has a tell on the sneaks.  Just before he goes he dips his shoulders and leans in a bit.  I saw it yesterday in the highlight.  He’s been doing it since at least early last year.  He did it yesterday before this botched attempt. 

 

3.  In spite of all of that, I still don’t think it was a clean snap. So on this one I blame Morse.  (Just like I blame Cam Lewis for not knocking the ball down, and Gabe Davis for not bending the route on the game-deciding INT.)  But whatever.  We lost.  End of story.  We can suck it up and deal with it and move on to the next one, or we can wallow in the disappointment and let it ruin the season.  

Edited November 14, 2022 by SectionC3

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, WideNine said:

I don't think blowing things up usually works as a high percentage plan.

 

Look at the doomed Titans who have managed to reset and stay competitive after looking like hot garbage early.

 

I do think there are serious questions as to whether Dorsey is in over his head.

 

Frazier is a known commodity and is dealing with a ton of injuries. Dorsey on the other hand does not have that luxury of having a proven track record as an OC.

 

The question for Sean and Beane is what do you do from here to course-correct?

 

I think they likely go with more of an OC by committee approach to see if they can right the ship.

 

Off season who knows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean...we are the #1 offense in the NFL at over 424 yards a game.  Let's not act like they are 21st or something.  The one thing I WOULD like to see more of in the RZ is the Allen designed runs...he was exceptionally effective on them especially inside the 10 yard line.

[BillyBilliams]

5 hours ago, 716 said:

McBeane is not the one tossing up redzone interceptions like dollars in a strip club

 

He's also drafting high for running backs that are not good and trading for them that aren't a part of the offense.  He's also not spending assets to protect our franchise player.  Instead they opt for "agile" and "flexible" players.  Essentially other team's cast offs.

[muppy]

10 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

 

 

McD cost us three points by not going for an easy FG in the 4th Q to give us a 30-17 lead, and those three points IMO, cost us the game.

the counter point would be that if the Bills had scored a TD we'd have shown dominance over our adversary and up by 14.  Going for the 3 was my preference and taking the points that Bass likely would have produced. It was a coaching decision that clearly did not work in the Bills favor. 20-20 hindsight. If we'd have scored the TD it may have turned into the nail in the Vikings coffin. We will never know. And hence here we are.

Edited November 14, 2022 by muppy

[boyst]

36 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Don't forget the Schopp & Bulldog end of all that too.

 

In McDermott's first year as HC, he did a live segment with them every Monday during the season.

 

In one episode, Schopp said something like "What do you see in the starting QB, b/c no one else does."  

 

This totally pissed off McDermott, and the rest of the conversation was stressed.  It ended with McDermott hanging up (LOL!) on the guys without saying "goodbye" or "thanks" or any fake response.  He just hung up on them.

 

The guys were stunned and made a joke about it, kind of, then went to commercial break.

When they came back, Bulldog was running a 1 man show; he did all the talking and Mike was just mysteriously gone.

 

He remained gone for over 1/2 hour, then finally rejoined Bulldog.

 

When he finally said something again after like a 40 minute absence, he just made a quick comment/joke like "well, that was interesting" or something and it was left there.

Neither of them has ever discussed this episode to my knowledge.

 

McDermott did finish out his segments with the that season, but never came back the following year, and that's when he moved to talking weekly with Howard.

 

There was speculation at the time about what happened to Mike.

 

I feel like he personally called McDermott on his cell phone and they got into it.

OR, there was the theory that Mike's boss called him into his office and yelled at him for 1/2 hour.

 

I would GUARANTEE McDermott, after that day, said "I will not do that show with these guys again."

 

McDermott is an extremely intense, weird, religious zealot.  People like that are not in control of their own minds.

 

 

And he's unlike any other coach. He wakes up early and does MMA!

[Einstein]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

If they get one kneel down they’re done.  At that point they could have just heaved the ball out of bounds a couple of times to kill the remaining few seconds, or run around in the end zone and taken the safety and killed the clock  if it got to that point. 

 

Here’s my take:

 

1.  I initially thought Morse surprised Allen with the snap, and that the idea was to try to draw the Vikings offside and to take a delay.  Upon further reflection, I don’t think that’s the case, because

 

2.  Allen has a tell on the sneaks.  Just before he goes he dips his shoulders and leans in a bit.  I saw it yesterday in the highlight.  He’s been doing it since at least early last year.  He did it yesterday before this botched attempt. 

 

3.  In spite of all of that, I still don’t think it was a clean snap. So on this one I blame Morse.  (Just like I blame Cam Lewis for not knocking the ball down, and Gabe Davis for not bending the route on the game-deciding INT.)  But whatever.  We lost.  End of story.  We can suck it up and deal with it and move on to the next one, or we can wallow in the disappointment and let it ruin the season.  

 

A quarterback sneak was never going to lead to a kneel down.

 

You need to get to the 4 yard to have enough space for a kneel down.

 

In no realistic scenario is that QB sneak leading us to the 4 yard line.

 

And as you mentioned, how are we still not knocking the ball down? Did Fail Murray really not teach us!?

 

There is zero excuse for this being a catch.

 

[Nextmanup]

Just re-reading the TWEET from Wawrow.

He really did say almost nothing.  

 

There are "internal issues to contend with".

 

And he suggested these may unglue the team like the vaccination thing did last year.

 

That's not a lot of hard information.

 

Internal issues could be anything! 

 

I think it is interesting that a bunch of posters have suggested possible friction based on salary in terms of who gets how much.  I wouldn't have guessed that, but maybe that's it.

 

I don't know. To me, that's not very juicy.

 

 

[SectionC3]

Just now, muppy said:

the counter point would be that if the Bills had scored a TD we'd have shown dominance over our adversary and up by 14.  Going for the 3 was my preference and taking the points that Bass likely would have produced. It was a coaching decision that clearly did not work in the Bills favor. 20-20 hindsight. If we'd have scored it may have turned into the nail in the Vikings coffin. We will never know. And hence here we are.

I was all for going for it yesterday in the stadium.  In hindsight, the better play may have been to kick and to let the Vikings try to score two TDs to beat us.  Again, though, whatever.  They did score two touchdowns, and we lucked out with the missed extra point and the miracle FG.  So we either deal with this and move on or it ruins the season.  

[Gisele]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Here’s my take:

 

1.  I initially thought Morse surprised Allen with the snap, and that the idea was to try to draw the Vikings offside and to take a delay.  Upon further reflection, I don’t think that’s the case, because

 

2.  Allen has a tell on the sneaks.  Just before he goes he dips his shoulders and leans in a bit.  I saw it yesterday in the highlight.  He’s been doing it since at least early last year.  He did it yesterday before this botched attempt. 

 

3.  In spite of all of that, I still don’t think it was a clean snap. So on this one I blame Morse.  (Just like I blame Cam Lewis for not knocking the ball down, and Gabe Davis for not bending the route on the game-deciding INT.)  But whatever.  We lost.  End of story.  We can suck it up and deal with it and move on to the next one, or we can wallow in the disappointment and let it ruin the season.  

And Davis stopping his motion behind Allen is a big time tell.  That made it easy for the D to know when the ball was being snapped.

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

A quarterback sneak was never going to lead to a kneel down.

 

You need to get to the 4 yard to have enough space for a kneel down.

 

In no realistic scenario is that QB sneak leading us to the 4 yard line.

 

And as you mentioned, how are we still not knocking the ball down? Did Fail Murray really not teach us!?

 

There is zero excuse for this being a catch.

 

I edited my post because I think Minnesota had a timeout left at the time.  So we would have needed two successful kills and then a run around on third down.  So it’s basically two plunges and it’s over, even with the timeout.  Bottom line is that we couldn’t execute a simple play and it cost us a game. 

[WideNine]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I mean...we are the #1 offense in the NFL at over 424 yards a game.  Let's not act like they are 21st or something.  The one thing I WOULD like to see more of in the RZ is the Allen designed runs...he was exceptionally effective on them especially inside the 10 yard line.

 

I think that is where the committee approach comes in.

 

What is an effective game plan for the 2nd half?

 

What adjustments need to be made?

 

How do we better utilize our RBs and quick throws underneath to keep drives alive and limit the risky off schedule plays?

 

Are you saying our offense does not need fixing?

 

 

 

[BillsSbSoon]

If there’s anything to this I’m guessing it might be the defense getting frustrated with mcd and Allen’s insistence on going for it on 4th downs. We had that game in control. That friggin pick swung the whole game around. Take the damn 3pts. The more I think about it the more angering it gets. We shouldntve lost yesterday.