Donahoe

[SouthernMan]

TD's finished after this season.

340745[/snapback]

 

 

Not saying Donahoe is untouchable or a has reached god-like status, but we could do a whole lot worse. He DID have the salary cap issue.

Last year, we had a 9-7 team with a rookie head coach, playing in one of the toughest divisions and having one of the toughest schedules.

If not for getting screwed by the poor officiating in the week 2 Raider game or possibly catching a single break in the Jags game the previous week, they may have well made the playoffs.

 

This is a team that was dominating in the second half of the season. I believe only the Patriots and Steelers had better records over the last 10-11 weeks of the season. If Donahoe is getting all of your blame for past failures, he should at least receive some of the credit for their success after their slow start.

 

How soon we forget.

[/dev/null]

TD is a genius! He helped Al Gore invent the Internet

[d_wag]

I will always be a TD fan for one reason.

 

His genius turned a free-agent (above average but not great) wide receiver into Willis McGahee.

 

Peerless for Atlanta's 1st, and drafting McGahee.

 

That was brilliant.

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MANY on this board called that move well in advance........it was hardly a stroke of genius......not finding a #2 WR capable of replacing peerless in the lineup was a big mistake though, and the offense suffered for it.......

[Realist]

So TD should have hired Marvin Lewis? Lewis has done less with more talent in Cinci than GW had his first two years as Bills coach.  And considering the underperformance of the Bengals defense over the last two years, Lewis' stock continues to fall.

 

I think Donahoe made the right decision in not hiring Lewis, based on Lewis' record.

 

And the records of Fox and Williams were similar (both DCs of SB losing teams, with highly rated Ds), so the way to differentiate between the two is personal interviews, and Williams did better, due to Fox's need to focus on the SB during the interview process.

 

So let's pull the reins in while speculating about Donahoe's fictional bruised ego.  It doesn't exist.  At the time, he made a solid decision.

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Finally, someone who agrees with me about Lewis. I have no idea why everyone is so enamored with this guy. Has he helped Cinci? Yes, but he sure doesn't seem like a great coach that everyone thinks he is. Cincinnati went from a perennial bottom dweller to a perennial middle fo the road team. He's had some decent talent there and hasn't done much with it.

 

Say you're a hiring manager, you have two qualified candidates come in for interviews and one of them totally blows you away during the process, who are you going to hire? The one you were so impressed with during the interview or the other guy?

 

I don't blame him for hiring Williams, but he chould have stepped in about some of his assistant decisions. I think Mularkey has done a great job in assembling his staff and a great job as a rookie HC last year. To me, TD rectified the coaching problem. No matter what happens this year, TD will be back next year (now if we go 1-15, thats another story.)

[San-O]

Not saying Donahoe is untouchable or a has reached god-like status, but we could do a whole lot worse. He DID have the salary cap issue.

Last year, we had a 9-7 team with a rookie head coach, playing in one of the toughest divisions and having one of the toughest schedules.

If not for getting screwed by the poor officiating in the week 2 Raider game or possibly catching a single break in the Jags game the previous week, they may have well made the playoffs.

 

This is a team that was dominating in the second half of the season. I believe only the Patriots and Steelers had better records over the last 10-11 weeks of the season. If Donahoe is getting  all of your blame for past failures, he should at least receive some of the credit for their success after their slow start.

 

How soon we forget.

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Enough about the salary cap already. He purged the roster, plain and simple

and the team went from 9-7 to 3-13 on one year.

 

How tough was that to figure out?

[jad1]

MANY on this board called that move well in advance........it was hardly a stroke of genius......not finding a #2 WR capable of replacing peerless in the lineup was a big mistake though, and the offense suffered for it.......

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I think that this is Donahoe's biggest mistake as GM of the Bills. The Price move was great, as it netted the team McGahee, and even freed up cap space to sign Spikes and Adams.

 

But he let the WR corps get too slow. If Gilbride's offense ocassionally sputtered with Moulds and Price on the outside, it completely died with Shaw and Reed on the outside.

 

He started to address the problem Evans, but Evans didn't work his way into the starting lineup until 5 or 6 games into last season.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

So TD should have hired Marvin Lewis? Lewis has done less with more talent in Cinci than GW had his first two years as Bills coach.  And considering the underperformance of the Bengals defense over the last two years, Lewis' stock continues to fall.

 

I think Donahoe made the right decision in not hiring Lewis, based on Lewis' record.

 

And the records of Fox and Williams were similar (both DCs of SB losing teams, with highly rated Ds), so the way to differentiate between the two is personal interviews, and Williams did better, due to Fox's need to focus on the SB during the interview process.

 

So let's pull the reins in while speculating about Donahoe's fictional bruised ego.  It doesn't exist.  At the time, he made a solid decision.

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I'd actually put myself in the camp of being a TD supporter. I think he has done a good job as Bills' GM and was a great choice by RWS on the short notice of the bottom falling out of the Butler negotiations.

 

However, as much as I like (and continue to like him as GM despite the losing Bills record under him because of some brilliant moves that balance off mistakes he has made like restructuring Bledsoe or signing GW for me) he is very good, just not perfect (but then who is).

 

I may be totally wrong that TD was bruised by getting fired by Cowher a guy he hired and run out of town in Pittsburgh so consider me reined in cause I do notknow him well of enough to insist this correct. However, if he took it in stride and rebounded quickly or at all then praise to him because I think this reaction would be a surperior and well beyond many human beings due to our flaws.

 

Do you feel there was no perceivable effect on TDs work style and job performance with the Bills caused by him getting canned in a fight with a guy he hired.

 

On various issues with GW there seemed to be some tussling which struck me as counter-productive at worst and the two of them being on different pages at best. For example GW went on the public record saying Larry Centers would be a Bills as long as he wanted to be. Within a week to 10 days, Centers was cut and Gash was signed to replace him.

 

What i took from this was that either GW is simply a lying snake or changes his mind in an instant and one should never believe he will stick to what he says publicly, OR he happened to intrude into the GMs contractual balliwick and was either not informed that discussions with Gash were ongoing or that TD disciplined GW was speaking out of turn on a decision which was not his to make and TD had Centers lose his job over it.

 

Maybe I'm wrong about TD an he has some super-human ability to see beyond getting fired and it had no effect on his next HC hiring. I like his work, I just doubt he is superhuman.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

MANY on this board called that move well in advance........it was hardly a stroke of genius......not finding a #2 WR capable of replacing peerless in the lineup was a big mistake though, and the offense suffered for it.......

341139[/snapback]

 

I assume you must be talking about the decision to transition tag PP because the move to pick WM rather than being predicted was a total surprise to virtually (if not totally) everyone. Due to the grave doubts over whether WM would even play again after his college injury, TD having the faith in the Bills docs to pick him in the first, and having the intelligence not to rush him into service at all the next year WMs production last year clearly establishes this pick as one of the best draft moves in draft history.

 

As f

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I assume you must be talking about the decision to transition tag PP because the move to pick WM rather than being predicted was a total surprise to virtually (if not totally) everyone. Due to the grave doubts over whether WM would even play again after his college injury, TD having the faith in the Bills docs to pick him in the first, and having the intelligence not to rush him into service at all the next year WMs production last year clearly establishes this pick as one of the best draft moves in draft history.

 

As f

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As far as evaluating TDs work on the WR position, i think it is far an dry different than being such a flat-out obvious mistake:

 

1. Few saw any WR need for the Bills at all in 2002 when Reed was picked and a clear DE need. However, i think TD showed clear farsightedness in regards to puttin us in a position to replace PP if necessary. Having the Biletnikoff winner as the best college drop to round 2 was a reasonable pick in terms of getting the best player available. It turned out to be an even more clever mover as Reed actually performed quite well his rookie year catching 30+ passes as a rookie and racking up over 500 yards as our #3 WR.

 

2. Having the not guaranteed by a longshot, but reasonable freedom to trade PP for a #1 who became McGahee really is brilliant.

 

Our offense clearly suffered from not having the 2002 performance of PP in 2003 (actually the AT offense also suffered a lot from PP not repeating his performance). However, while Reeds droppsies (which were not a problem for him in 2002) was only part and actually not the biggest part of our WR implosion in 2003. It was the injury to Moulds and I do not think it is reasonable to blame TD for that.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I think that this is Donahoe's biggest mistake as GM of the Bills.  The Price move was great, as it netted the team McGahee, and even freed up cap space to sign Spikes and Adams.

 

But he let the WR corps get too slow.  If Gilbride's offense ocassionally sputtered with Moulds and Price on the outside, it completely died with Shaw and Reed on the outside.

 

He started to address the problem Evans, but Evans didn't work his way into the starting lineup until 5 or 6 games into last season.

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In addition to attributing the error to a TD decision to over-rely on Shaw and Reed by TD one has to at least mention to be rational this over-reliance stemming in a significant way from Moulds' injury.

 

I think one might blame TD for not having a good plan E for having a #1 WR because after the Moulds injury, we could have used PP since Reed did not repeat the level of growth he demonstrated moving from college to the pros moving from #3 to #1, Shaw was incapable of being even a #2 much lessthe best receiver on the team.

 

Most GMs really do not hsve the ability, particularly within the constraints of the cap to deal with an injury, a tough FA choice, a Biletnikoff winner who did well as a rookie having problems as a 2nd year guy and having his slot guy be the lead receiver on the team. The Bills screwed up at WR in 2003, but i don't think it is correct to blame this all on TD for not taking the reasonable step in casr 3 to 4 things went wrong.

[stinky finger]

We can talk about how TD got us out of cap hell. We can talk about the brilliant move of turning PP into WM. Or, conversely, we can talk about the failure that was GW and the fact that the Bill's record has been subpar. Bottom line. It will ALL come down to TD moving up in the 1st round in '04 to draft Losman. TD's tenure in Buffalo, however long, will be based on JP's success. Period.

[KnightRider]

MANY on this board called that move well in advance........it was hardly a stroke of genius......not finding a #2 WR capable of replacing peerless in the lineup was a big mistake though, and the offense suffered for it.......

341139[/snapback]

 

 

He brought in players to shift the offense from a pass first to a pound it offense. The coaching staff did not adjust accordingly and we found Sam Gash split out wide. This brilliance brought the dismissal of the head coach and the offensive coaching staff. His mistake was Gregg Williams/Kevin Gilbride.

[BRH]

I think Donahoe made the right decision in not hiring Lewis, based on Lewis' record.

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I don't really blame TD for hiring GW, but I do think he shouldn't have allowed GW to pick such a terribly inexperienced staff. Maybe when GW whipped out his laptop during the interview, TD should have taken a closer look at the spreadsheets to see who GW would hire. I mean, Mike Sheppard? Ronnie Vinklarek? Danny Smith?

 

I think that fiasco said more about GW's ego than TD's.

[KnightRider]

Enough about the salary cap already.  He purged the roster, plain and simple

and the team went from 9-7 to 3-13 on one year.

 

How tough was that to figure out?

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He did that and somehow kept the stadium full. You are missing the point.

[BRH]

He started to address the problem Evans, but Evans didn't work his way into the starting lineup until 5 or 6 games into last season.

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This was TD's fault? The coaches decide who plays, not the GM.

[jad1]

This was TD's fault?  The coaches decide who plays, not the GM.

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That's true. However, the only speed threat the Bills had at outside receiver at the beginning of last year was Evans. And as a GM, you can't count on a rookie starting from day 1. The Bills offense, while Evans and McGahee were working their way into the starting lineup, was slow and predictable, which contributed to the team's lousy start.

 

On the other hand, with McGahee and Evans in the starting lineup, and Parrish working his way into the lineup, the Bills offense will look completely different from the one that started last season.

[d_wag]

I assume you must be talking about the decision to transition tag PP because the move to pick WM rather than being predicted was a total surprise to virtually (if not totally) everyone. Due to the grave doubts over whether WM would even play again after his college injury, TD having the faith in the Bills docs to pick him in the first, and having the intelligence not to rush him into service at all the next year WMs production last year clearly establishes this pick as one of the best draft moves in draft history.

 

As f

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i'm talking about the FRANCHISE tagging of PP and subsequent trade, which is a completely seperate issue from the WM pick in my books........

[BRH]

On the other hand, with McGahee and Evans in the starting lineup, and Parrish working his way into the lineup, the Bills offense will look completely different from the one that started last season.

341398[/snapback]

Boy, that's true.

 

LT - Jonas Jennings / ?

LG - Lawrence Smith / Bennie Anderson

C - Trey Teague / ?

RG - Chris Villarrial / Chris Villarrial

RT - Mike Williams / Mike Williams

WR - Eric Moulds / Eric Moulds

WR - Josh Reed / Lee Evans

WR - Bobby Shaw / Roscoe Parrish

TE - Mark Campbell / Mark Campbell

FB - Daimon Shelton / Daimon Shelton

RB - Travis Henry / Willis McGahee

QB - Drew Bledsoe / J.P. Losman

 

I'm still concerned about the left side of the line, but the improvement in speed and talent at wide receiver, running back and quarterback makes a BIG difference already.

[d_wag]

As far as evaluating TDs work on the WR position, i think it is far an dry different than being such a flat-out obvious mistake:

 

1. Few saw any WR need for the Bills at all in 2002 when Reed was picked and a clear DE need. However, i think TD showed clear farsightedness in regards to puttin us in a position to replace PP if necessary.  Having the Biletnikoff winner as the best college drop to round 2 was a reasonable pick in terms of getting the best player available. It turned out to be an even more clever mover as Reed actually performed quite well his rookie year catching 30+ passes as a rookie and racking up over 500 yards as our #3 WR.

 

2. Having the not guaranteed by a longshot, but reasonable freedom to trade PP for a #1 who became McGahee really is brilliant.

 

Our offense clearly suffered from not having the 2002 performance of PP in 2003 (actually the AT offense also suffered a lot from PP not repeating his performance).  However, while Reeds droppsies (which were not a problem for him in 2002) was only part and actually not the biggest part of our WR implosion in 2003. It was the injury to Moulds and I do not think it is reasonable to blame TD for that.

341312[/snapback]

 

bottom line -- reed flopped in the #2 role and was not ready for the job.......moulds injury or not, that was evident from the beginning of the season to the end.........not replacing peerless with someone who could actually handle the job was a mistake on TD's part, contra to trading peerless for a 1st round pick which was a solid move on TD's part.........

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

bottom line -- reed flopped in the #2 role and was not ready for the job.......moulds injury or not, that was evident from the beginning of the season to the end.........not replacing peerless with someone who could actually handle the job was a mistake on TD's part, contra to trading peerless for a 1st round pick which was a solid move on TD's part.........

341407[/snapback]

The facts are the facts and definitely Reed flopped as a #2. I think the assessment question on TD is whether Reed doing a good enough job as #2 was a good enough bet to make that it justified letting PP walk as an FA.

 

I'd say the answer to that question is yes that it was a good bet for a GM to make, but unfortunately not only did we lose that bet, but in the worse possible way because it coincided with the loss to injury of our #1 WR.

 

The key issues justifying the risk were:

 

1. Were the acciomplishments of Reed in college reasonable enough to justify him being a #2 his seond year.

 

YES, College perfornance does not gurantee a player will suceed in the pros right out the box (likely he will not even for most 1st rounders who eventually become good) or at any point as a pro. However, winning the Biletnikoff award as the best WR in college and showing good ability for RAC as a forner runner is about as much of a college recommendation as you are going to get so betting on this player to eventually merit a starting role is not unreasonable.

 

2. Did Reed look productive enough as a rookie to merit promotion to starting #2.

 

YES. He got a chance to pick on LBs and low-ranked DBs as a rookie so his 30+ caatces and 500+ yards did not come against the best competition. However, this was very good productiom for a rookie receiver and made a jump to #2 a reasonable bet to make.

 

3. DId TD have a reasonable plan B for Reed if he could not do the job.

 

My sense is the answer to this is yes, though since he ended up as a cut, while Shaw was clearly not much of a player to be the best WR on your team. He wa a reasonable guy to figure in as your #3 and one might make the demand on him to be our #2 if Reed faltered.

 

What happened to the Bills was:

 

1. Moulds, the #1 went down.

2. Reed despite a reasonable rookie record simply sucked.

3. Shaw was reasonably productive as a slot receiver. but [rpved incapable of doing much as the #2 without a #1 threat becausewith the demise of Moulds and Reed he was exposed.

 

While i do think it is the foolish GM not to have a plan B, TD did. Unfortunately his plan C did not work well either and we sucked at WR. However, i find it really picayune to claim this is some obvious major failing as so many reasonable plans fell through and to discount the benefit that came along with the other action of what did we get for PP strikes me as unreasonable.

 

TD blew it big time hiring GW and was foolish to restructure Bledsoe after he sucked in 2003, but the WR problem did happen but i think is way down on the list for faulting TD.