Dorsey’s lack of adjustments in the second half; 12 second half points in the last 3 games

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

14 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

This says it all. Bad coaching PLUS bad execution 

I honestly feel like I’m taking crazy pills on this one lol can someone point me to a sneak losing a half yard in nfl history?  And that includes years where you couldn’t push the qb from behind 
 

coaching overall for the game sure flame away…but questioning the sneak call is a little ridiculous imo. 

[I'm Spartacus]

4 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I honestly feel like I’m taking crazy pills on this one lol can someone point me to a sneak losing a half yard in nfl history?  And that includes years where you couldn’t push the qb from behind 
 

coaching overall for the game sure flame away…but questioning the sneak call is a little ridiculous imo. 

Disagree. We had 4 plays to get off the goal line. The sneak was a panic move by Dorsey and poor execution by Morse and Allen.

[Scott7975]

Im not a fan of Dorsey atm. He seems to have the same problem that Daboll had.  He doesnt mix the passing and run very well and also completely abandons it. I thought in the first half he did a good job mixing stuff up. Then came the second half where he just dropped running plays out of the playbook.  They can not expect Josh to throw every single down.  The run game was working.  They had no reason to stop using it.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Disagree. We had 4 plays to get off the goal line. The sneak was a panic move by Dorsey and poor execution by Morse and Allen.

explain why you disagree.  Show me a sneak that has lost a half yard in nfl history and maybe you’ll swing me.  I don’t see how a play that has a 99.9% chance of being successful can be a panic move. Minny had one timeout…it was two plays to not lose a half yard.  
 

i see the titans game being brought up but that was not a traditional fall forwards sneak and josh still got back to the line which would’ve been more than good enough yesterday 

 

If you throw there…you have the same snap risk, you have a tipped ball/int risk, you have the inherent risk that you aren’t stopping the clock if you throw it away 3 times, you have a holding penalty in the end zone being a safety risk,you have an intentional grounding risk.  
 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

explain why you disagree.  Show me a sneak that has lost a half yard in nfl history and maybe you’ll swing me.  I don’t see how a play that has a 99.9% chance of being successful can be a panic move. Minny had one timeout…it was two plays to not lose a half yard.  

 

If you throw there…you have the same snap risk, you have a tipped ball/int risk, you have the inherent risk that you aren’t stopping the clock if you throw it away 3 times, you have a holding penalty in the end zone being a safety risk,you have an intentional grounding risk.  
 

 

 

Didnt the sneak in the Titans game last year lose yards?  Not every sneak makes it you know.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

9 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Didnt the sneak in the Titans game last year lose yards?  Not every sneak makes it you know.

Looks like it got back to the line to me…there’s no chance it lost even close to a half yard.  That was not a traditional sneak by any means regardless. 
 

I think people are getting confused that making it here was not losing a half yard…when we normally talk about sneaks failing it’s because they didn’t gain a yard/half yard.  If you completely reversed the qbs momentum immediately and drove him backwards I dont even think that could cause a half yard loss.
 
heck  stopping a sneak from gaining a yard is tough when you know it’s coming…can’t even believe we pulled that miracle off 

 

I’ve been looking for one I’m not blindly trying to prove a point lol I think a sneak losing a half yard has gotta be a 1000/1 chance or higher

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[I'm Spartacus]

Shotgun snap would have been more prudent, given our suspect O line.

[BillsFanSD]

17 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Disagree. We had 4 plays to get off the goal line. The sneak was a panic move by Dorsey and poor execution by Morse and Allen.

See, this is what I'm talking about.  Your understanding of the situation is completely, totally wrong.  We didn't have to worry about four downs, and we weren't worried about getting a first down.  We just needed to run one play that kept the clock running and didn't lose yardage.  That's it. 

 

If this situation had come up with 10 minutes left to go in the game, yeah sure run a regular play.  But that wasn't the situation that came up yesterday.  

4 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Shotgun snap would have been more prudent, given our suspect O line.

Because shotgun snaps never get mishandled, and QBs are never tackled behind the LOS.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

20 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

See, this is what I'm talking about.  Your understanding of the situation is completely, totally wrong.  We didn't have to worry about four downs, and we weren't worried about getting a first down.  We just needed to run one play that kept the clock running and didn't lose yardage.  That's it. 

 

If this situation had come up with 10 minutes left to go in the game, yeah sure run a regular play.  But that wasn't the situation that came up yesterday.  

Because shotgun snaps never get mishandled, and QBs are never tackled behind the LOS.

I’m with you man I just don’t understand it.  I don’t even see how a sneak could theoretically lose a half yard without the snap being bad.  In a shotgun snap the snap could be bad and you open yourself up to all kinds of other risks not to mention you probably need to run more plays because josh would be throwing incompletions 
 

you could rag doll the qb instantly at the line of scrimmage on a sneak and  carry him into the locker room and they’d stop it for forward progress before it lost a half yard lol the qb takes the snap moving forwards and getting pushed from behind 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[I'm Spartacus]

3 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

See, this is what I'm talking about.  Your understanding of the situation is completely, totally wrong.  We didn't have to worry about four downs, and we weren't worried about getting a first down.  We just needed to run one play that kept the clock running and didn't lose yardage.  That's it. 

 

If this situation had come up with 10 minutes left to go in the game, yeah sure run a regular play.  But that wasn't the situation that came up yesterday.  

Ok, we has 3 plays to get breathing room yardage, and 1 play to neal and run out the clock.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Ok, we has 3 plays to get breathing room yardage, and 1 play to neal and run out the clock.

You wouldn’t need a knee…it was 2 sneaks maximum.  Minny had one timeout and there were 40ish seconds left.  You are completely misunderstanding the situation.  

If you are throwing the football there you would need more than 2 plays because josh would likely be throwing the ball away 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[I'm Spartacus]

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

You wouldn’t need a knee…it was 2 sneaks maximum.  Minny had one timeout and there were 40ish seconds left.  You are completely misunderstanding the situation.  

If you are throwing the football there you would need more than 2 plays because josh would likely be throwing the ball away 

Sounds like you are a better coach than Dorsey and McDermott! You're hired!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Sounds like you are a better coach than Dorsey and McDermott! You're hired!

Lol what?  That’s exactly what Dorsey and McDermott were doing and why they did it 🤣 

 

you are just not understanding it properly

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[I'm Spartacus]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Lol what?  That’s exactly what Dorsey and McDermott were doing and why they did it 🤣 

Not going to argue with you anymore. My bone of contention is (a) bad execution by Allen and Morse (b) poor play calling/coaching (creativity) in critical game situations.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

It's so bizarre.  I've been going through other team's box scores to see if there's a trend with any other teams looking like a completely different team the second half.

 

There is. The Vikings.  Except in the opposite order and we saw that yesterday.

 

The Bills had that stat going for awhile were they didn't allow a 3rd quarter or 2nd half TD.

 

That's obviously gone out the window and now the stat is our own team not being able to score a TD in the second half.

Could have really used 40-seconds of clock run off late in that game…

 

But the run has no value according to Jeremy White, Howard Simon, Mike Schopp. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, I'm Spartacus said:

Not going to argue with you anymore. My bone of contention is (a) bad execution by Allen and Morse (b) poor play calling/coaching (creativity) in critical game situations.

If you had said that the first time I would’ve had no complaints lol I don’t believe the sneak decision should be included in point b but plenty of other stuff could’ve been 

[I'm Spartacus]

6 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

If you had said that the first time I would’ve had no complaints lol I don’t believe the sneak decision should be included in point b but plenty of other stuff could’ve been 

Just became a veteran poster, so I am happy (except for the Bills terrible loss)

[Billz4ever]

9 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Could have really used 40-seconds of clock run off late in that game…

 

But the run has no value according to Jeremy White, Howard Simon, Mike Schopp. 

I completely get that our offense revolves around JA.  But even bad coaches know you need to be burning clock when you have the lead, not giving the ball right back.

[mjt328]

The Bills running game ONLY works when:

1.  The defense is expecting the pass, and we catch them off guard

2.  Quarterback scrambles and designed runs

When our O-Line is asked to block head-up on a handoff and our RB needs to get 3-4 yards, we get stuffed.  Every.  Single.  Time.

 

This offense looks nice and pretty on paper, because of all the big highlight plays.  But it's absolutely terrible in short yardage (because the defense is expecting the run in those situations), and in the Red Zone (where the field has been condensed).  It also makes it difficult to run the clock out with a lead, because again... the defense is expecting more runs.

 

I honestly believe that Ken Dorsey WANTS to run more, but gives up easily (especially late in games) because it's forcing him into 3rd-longs and killing drives.

 

At the same time, our QB sees that we are struggling to score and feels the pressure to put the team on his back.  He's also bought the media hype that he can literally do anything.  So he's trying to force passes into places he's got no business, and in the process is throwing the game away.

 

[Nuncha]

5 hours ago, gobills404 said:

Even if you intentionally take a safety you still have to not fumble the snap

Had they kicked the FG in the 4th quarter none of it would have mattered. Even if the Vikes make the missed PAT we would have won 33-31 in REGULATION.

 

I'll never understand why they didn't put easy points on the board there.  We were on the 7-yard line, and it would have been an easy FG.