Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) My toss up in favor of balance in the hopes any of you influence R. what is a compromise you can live with? it’s clearly a topic you have to address Edited November 11, 2022 by Over 29 years of fanhood
SCBills Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) 15 weeks, with exceptions after for life of the mother, severe health issues and severe fetal abnormalities. This is literally where the majority of Americans reside on the issue This is also where much of Europe resides. Given this is a state level issue, some R’s may need to adjust to 20-24 weeks to be competitive in blue states, whereas heartbeat “can” clearly work in more red/purple/moderate states. Nationally though … R Presidential candidate should say it’s up to the states to decide and they would not push any nationwide ban legislation. Edited November 11, 2022 by SCBills 2
Tenhigh Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 When is the fetus viable? 50% at 24 weeks? That seems reasonable to me.
ChiGoose Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 39 minutes ago, SCBills said: 15 weeks, with exceptions after for life of the mother, severe health issues and severe fetal abnormalities. This is literally where the majority of Americans reside on the issue This is also where much of Europe resides. Given this is a state level issue, some R’s may need to adjust to 20-24 weeks to be competitive in blue states, whereas heartbeat “can” clearly work in more red/purple/moderate states. Nationally though … R Presidential candidate should say it’s up to the states to decide and they would not push any nationwide ban legislation. The comparison to Europe is a bit more nuanced. They have a lot more exceptions than American laws have. Also, since they also have universal healthcare, there is a lot easier access to medical care generally. Here, if you have a positive pregnancy test, you’re basically already four weeks into pregnancy and you may not have regular access to a doctor. If you’re someone with an irregular period, you may be at 6, 8 or more weeks before you take a test. If we really want to reduce elective abortions, we should actually focus on the root cause instead of trying to put the government into the hospital room. 1
Andy1 Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 This issue has clearly become an anchor for republicans and a galvanizing issue for dems. For decades republicans fought to overturn Roe. The religious right is a core part of the R party with many/most of them singularly focused on banning all abortions. It will be interesting to see what the party does to appear more reasonable to voters on this issue. Between the abortion issue and their Trump problem, they have a lot of internal evaluation to do. 1
Doc Brown Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 2 hours ago, SCBills said: Nationally though … R Presidential candidate should say it’s up to the states to decide and they would not push any nationwide ban legislation. That's the problem though as Republicans can't help themselves. Lindsay Graham did his party no favors in September before the midterms of proposing a post 15 week abortion ban at the federal level. 2
Big Blitz Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 Yep It says something more about us that isn’t good in any way And worse
ChiGoose Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 59 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Yep It says something more about us that isn’t good in any way And worse Well this might be the dumbest thing I’ve read all day, so congratulations, I suppose. If the GOP really cared about stopping abortions, they would do a root cause analysis and address the causes of abortions. But they don’t, so they don’t. They just want an issue that activates the people they consider rubes to vote for them so they can funnel more money to the donor class.
Big Blitz Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 11 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Well this might be the dumbest thing I’ve read all day, so congratulations, I suppose. If the GOP really cared about stopping abortions, they would do a root cause analysis and address the causes of abortions. But they don’t, so they don’t. They just want an issue that activates the people they consider rubes to vote for them so they can funnel more money to the donor class. Was there a national pro-life movement pre Roe I’m not aware of? The libs on SCOTUS overreached and made it the law of the land. That’s what “activated” people - when their power was usurped by DC - wrongly. In order to kill babies. And it’s sad and ironic that you criticize that development among Republicans as some ploy to get the rubes to vote for them…… ….Yet as the cost of everything skyrockets in this country by 20-40% thanks to the most destructive embarrassing and reckless actions in human history over the flu - Democrats are running 24/7 on abortion - in hopes of activating actual rubes that think their grocery bills are high because of Putin. 1 2
SCBills Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Doc Brown said: That's the problem though as Republicans can't help themselves. Lindsay Graham did his party no favors in September before the midterms of proposing a post 15 week abortion ban at the federal level. Agreed. I don’t have an issue with the content of his policy view .. as that’s acceptable to most people, but he shattered the narrative that Republicans wanted Roe overturned because, constitutionally, the decision lies with the states. Along comes ol’ Lindsey Graham right before the midterms like nahhh, nationalize it. Gave Dems more than enough fodder to say look at this prominent Senator who wants to make it a national issue… look at these ruby red states trying to fully ban abortion. Contrast those missteps with Kemp and DeWine in Georgia and Ohio. Both signed six week abortion legislation, and both won re-election enthusiastically. Lesson for R’s… -Erase the word ban from your vocabulary. -Reinforce that this is now a state issue. -Settle law in your states as soon as possible. In states where abortion law, no matter how expansive or strict, was mostly settled .. abortion did not play much of an issue (GA, FL, OH. NY). In states that are still uncertain, they absolutely did. (MI, PA) Edited November 11, 2022 by SCBills 1 2
Tiberius Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 A "reasonable" policy will be impossible. The GOP base been fed this idea that all abortion is murder. They are stuck with that. Catholic and Evangelical voters are so moralized up to their neck on this issue that they will not be able to back away from it any time soon. Don't forget! Life begins at conception! 😇
BillStime Posted April 20, 2023 Posted April 20, 2023 On 11/10/2022 at 9:59 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: My toss up in favor of balance in the hopes any of you influence R. what is a compromise you can live with? it’s clearly a topic you have to address This works:
Bockeye Posted April 20, 2023 Posted April 20, 2023 20 minutes ago, BillStime said: This works: Not gonna lie, I’m gonna agree with this. However, along with this, I’d like the Democrats to agree to the following: -They take in all illegal aliens (“dreamers”) and pay fully for their education, healthcare, food, their share of taxes, etc. -They are not allowed to own guns whatsoever. -They are not allowed to drive gasoline vehicles nor anything made with petroleum nor receive anything attached to petroleum, e.g., Amazon trucks, etc. All electric all the time. -Dems all pay $10k per person for reparations to the oppressed. -This one is personal…..just stay the hell out of Montana and I swear to God I won’t go to Cali or NY Where do I sign up? 3
Doc Posted April 20, 2023 Posted April 20, 2023 On 11/10/2022 at 10:23 PM, SCBills said: 15 weeks, with exceptions after for life of the mother, severe health issues and severe fetal abnormalities. This is literally where the majority of Americans reside on the issue This is also where much of Europe resides. Given this is a state level issue, some R’s may need to adjust to 20-24 weeks to be competitive in blue states, whereas heartbeat “can” clearly work in more red/purple/moderate states. Nationally though … R Presidential candidate should say it’s up to the states to decide and they would not push any nationwide ban legislation. This, although I could go as high as 17 weeks.
The Frankish Reich Posted April 20, 2023 Posted April 20, 2023 On 11/10/2022 at 8:23 PM, SCBills said: 15 weeks, with exceptions after for life of the mother, severe health issues and severe fetal abnormalities. This is literally where the majority of Americans reside on the issue This is also where much of Europe resides. Given this is a state level issue, some R’s may need to adjust to 20-24 weeks to be competitive in blue states, whereas heartbeat “can” clearly work in more red/purple/moderate states. Nationally though … R Presidential candidate should say it’s up to the states to decide and they would not push any nationwide ban legislation. Your first sentence makes a lot of sense. Is there ANY politician willing to espouse that?
Doc Posted April 20, 2023 Posted April 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Your first sentence makes a lot of sense. Is there ANY politician willing to espouse that? You realize that rejecting that is what led to Roe being overturned, right? 1
The Frankish Reich Posted April 20, 2023 Posted April 20, 2023 Just now, Doc said: You realize that rejecting that is what led to Roe being overturned, right? You realize that Dobbs was supposed to be about leaving the issue to the states, not about federal legislation outlawing any kind of abortion? 1
Doc Posted April 20, 2023 Posted April 20, 2023 Just now, The Frankish Reich said: You realize that Dobbs was supposed to be about leaving the issue to the states, not about federal legislation outlawing any kind of abortion? Huh? There was no federal legislation outlawing any kind of abortion after Dobbs and it did leave the issue to the states. 2
The Frankish Reich Posted April 20, 2023 Posted April 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Doc said: Huh? There was no federal legislation outlawing any kind of abortion after Dobbs and it did leave the issue to the states. Then why are Republicans hellbent on introducing federal abortion bans? Lindsey Graham - not exactly a backbencher - started the ball rolling on this right after Dobbs. And even "mainstream" Republicans like Tim Scott are suggesting that they'd sign a federal abortion ban. They will not accept a Supreme Court "yes" for an answer. Why not? Because this was never about "leaving it to the states." That was the lie everybody told to try to get Roe overturned. It was about banning abortion. Period. That wacko judge in Texas just said the quiet part out loud. 1
BillStime Posted April 20, 2023 Posted April 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, Bockeye said: Not gonna lie, I’m gonna agree with this. However, along with this, I’d like the Democrats to agree to the following: -They take in all illegal aliens (“dreamers”) and pay fully for their education, healthcare, food, their share of taxes, etc. -They are not allowed to own guns whatsoever. -They are not allowed to drive gasoline vehicles nor anything made with petroleum nor receive anything attached to petroleum, e.g., Amazon trucks, etc. All electric all the time. -Dems all pay $10k per person for reparations to the oppressed. -This one is personal…..just stay the hell out of Montana and I swear to God I won’t go to Cali or NY Where do I sign up? Sure - no problem. We will take that deal and cut off all federal funds to red states. And no reparation funds for your oppressed residents either. You red states won’t last very long. Montana’s state budget is $12.6 billion for FY22 and FY23 and 49% comes from the federal government. Enjoy Montana without my tax dollars!
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