MadBuffaloDisease Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Ummm... Travis was a 2nd rounder. Yep. Didn't make him a sure thing for the Bills, and to hear some people, he wasn't worth a 4th rounder back then OR now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Yep. Didn't make him a sure thing for the Bills, and to hear some people, he wasn't worth a 4th rounder back then OR now. 339820[/snapback] Hey are taking to quoting me now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Well, we're not getting him for 3mil/year now. Not sure if I want him for any more than that. If we really want him, shoulda traded for him and his contract. 339762[/snapback] ???? Are you saying Shelton's salary demands are going to increase now that he's on the street? Ah...I've got this big bridge I'm trying to sell. Do you think you might be interestedl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 And when TH is released or traded for a 6th rounder, what's the difference? Similar value in my mind. 339718[/snapback] the difference is shelton didn't command the first rounder you claimed he would....... on a different note, i love all these people talking up shelton now that he is on the open market........mostly the same people who have been trashing the guy the past 3 months........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 the difference is shelton didn't command the first rounder you claimed he would....... on a different note, i love all these people talking up shelton now that he is on the open market........mostly the same people who have been trashing the guy the past 3 months........ I don't know that anyone is "talking up" Shelton per se, but him being an UFA and free to negotiate a lower salary definitely makes him more attractive. And if the Bills DO go after him, it's because they want him, despite what they've said in the past, and that's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Cards MB chatter...what a hoot! http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53862 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Well, we're not getting him for 3mil/year now. Not sure if I want him for any more than that. If we really want him, shoulda traded for him and his contract. 339762[/snapback] I'll try to check some of the facts on this to confirm the reality of situation but it is quite doubtful that Shelton will command a raise on the open market and the Bills are quite likely to get if for less than a $3 million cap hit IF they want him. Shelton arranged visits with the Bills, Broncos, Rams, Bucs and Bears before the draft and I don't even think all these visits occured which were arranged by Shelton's agent so this is probably a list of the Bills competition: The cap room of each of these teams should be checked because if it is constrained these teams would need to make some moves to create $3 million in cap room or even the $1.25 hit TH would get which the Bills could easily offer and even far more if they has a reason to by redoing big hits like the one MW has. In addition, to whatever cap hits the teams have, this may well go up if there draft class is large like TB giving them even less money and also if they got an LT prospect in the draft as the Bills did not they are likely off the table. My sense even before the Jennings deal was that the Bills might be able to keep him at a lower cost than the $5-6 million annually which is the going minimum for starting LTs. Many felt the contract for Jennings would be this high because this is what teams were paying for fairly pedestrian talents like Petitgout and Clifton and outside of Jenninngs inability to stay healthy and start all 16 at any point in his brief career he is probably just as talented as these players if not more so outside of his history of nicks. My sense was that the rampant cap commitments to folks like these two plus the fact that the vast majority of top 10 OL cap hits are for LTs is that actually the market for LTs was pretty constrained. All a player needs is one offer and SF overspent (in my opinion for JJ). However this means one more team off the table competing with the Bills. Of the teams expressing even some interest (this number will drop with the draft): Broncos- Have Matt Lepsis as the starter on their depth chart and my recollection is he played well and has had the job for a number of years. They have a fellow named Carlisle as his back-up. I do not remember them as having a lot of cap room so I tend to doubt they are big competition to bid us up. St. Louis- I hope like heck they are interested in Shelton and sign him because if they do if will mean they rescind the tag offer for Pace (if they can he might have taken it because the top 10 5 OL hit will be a huge contract for him and even if he is hurt this season a new team will still pay a mint to him next year unless his leg falls off. If Pace is available I say restructure MW, every one they can, take a good chunk of cap room we still have and sign him. Tampa Bay- They will need to cut Walker (which apparently they want to do anyway (but they have a couple of three potential T replacement candidates with good names (but limitations) on the roster already like Todd Steussie, Anthony Davis and some guy named Martin. In addition to these players with 2 years they also have a few rookie Ts. This is a team i suspect may want to cut Walker to make cap room for the guys they got and their huge draft class rather than looking to sign another candidate. Bears- There is some interest but i do not remember their cap situation. However, they seem to have at least 3 Ts on the roster who may be vying for the job including Colombo (well regarded but s history of injuries, Quasim Mitchell who has played LT before for the Bears, and John Tait who I think maintained n 8 year career with good RT play. The case would seem to be if other teams have collected a few candidates as many of these teams have done they may well be reluctant (if not unable capwise) to add another real candidate to the mix or alternately Shelton may be less willing to go to a situation where he may well sit on the bench rather than the Bills situation where if he is healthy i think he wins the job. It only takes one offer so he may go elsewhere even if we want him, but if we want him i think we got him and probably for a good chunk less than a $3 million cap hit. Who do folks think will offer him more than $3 million or even be able to beat the Bills out if we do want him. A backloaded offer to Shelton with a $4 million bonus would actually give Shelton more in his pocket than the $3 million Arizona would pay him this year in base salary, reduce his cap hit well below that level because it can be prorated and allow the Bills to cut him next year or the year after if Peters comes into his own. Of course there is some risk of him walking because some other team can offer him the same type of deal, but of the 4 other teams that have seemingly tangible reasons to do so there are reasons why the will not in the info above. This needs some research work to confirm the truth but has a bit more reality than the usual fac-free opinions we fans have about players and team spending. 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d_wag Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I don't know that anyone is "talking up" Shelton per se, but him being an UFA and free to negotiate a lower salary definitely makes him more attractive. And if the Bills DO go after him, it's because they want him, despite what they've said in the past, and that's good enough for me. 339878[/snapback] i like shelton, and feel he would be an upgrade from the current train wreck that is assembled at LT........i just find it strange after watching him get slammed on this board for the past few weeks and months that so many feel the bills should consider him.......if he signs, this board will be flooded with flip-floopers who will christen shelton the answer at LT and TD a genius for hoodwinking the cards, even though they hated on the guy prior to the release and didn't think he was worth having around....... and i do like shelton because i've seen him play with my own eyes, which is not influenced in the least by what the bills braintrust thinks of him.......they also "wanted" jason gildon and oliver gibson, and look how that turned out.........and speaking specifically on the OL and their ability to assess talent, they also thought pucillo was starter material, and look how that turned out....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Henry on the other hand will ride our bench or be traded....I dont see TD making that same move. 339806[/snapback] I agree. Our worst case scenario is a pissed off Henry riding the pine and if, god forbid, something happens to WM he's got plenty of incentive to show he can still bring it. My feeling is that the locker room is 53 men deep, and one potentially bad apple can't spoil the bunch. Plus, I don't see Henry letting his anger at management get in the way. He seems to be the type who is more likely to be quite and stew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Didn't they also release Anthony Clement earlier this offseason? Who are the Cards starting tackles now? 339717[/snapback] EXACTLY. they released clement right after the draft, cus at that point they knew a trade was not going to happen, and didnt want to keep both. but it does make me wonder if we really want him now, cus there must be something wrong with him.... (ill still take him though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 St. Louis- I hope like heck they are interested in Shelton and sign him because if they do if will mean they rescind the tag offer for Pace (if they can he might have taken it because the top 10 5 OL hit will be a huge contract for him and even if he is hurt this season a new team will still pay a mint to him next year unless his leg falls off. If Pace is available I say restructure MW, every one they can, take a good chunk of cap room we still have and sign him. pace signed a long-term extension ages ago...... Tampa Bay- They will need to cut Walker (which apparently they want to do anyway (but they have a couple of three potential T replacement candidates with good names (but limitations) on the roster already like Todd Steussie, Anthony Davis and some guy named Martin. In addition to these players with 2 years they also have a few rookie Ts. This is a team i suspect may want to cut Walker to make cap room for the guys they got and their huge draft class rather than looking to sign another candidate. stussie looks like a prime candidate to get cut as well...... Bears- There is some interest but i do not remember their cap situation. However, they seem to have at least 3 Ts on the roster who may be vying for the job including Colombo (well regarded but s history of injuries, Quasim Mitchell who has played LT before for the Bears, and John Tait who I think maintained n 8 year career with good RT play. they signed fred miller and he will likely man the RT spot with tait shifting to LT....... The case would seem to be if other teams have collected a few candidates as many of these teams have done they may well be reluctant (if not unable capwise) to add another real candidate to the mix or alternately Shelton may be less willing to go to a situation where he may well sit on the bench rather than the Bills situation where if he is healthy i think he wins the job. shelton will go were the pay is the best -- bottom line (which doesn't bode well for the bills if they are interested)...... Who do folks think will offer him more than $3 million or even be able to beat the Bills out if we do want him? i think the rams could be interested if they are at all nervous about giving the RT job to barron......the bucs as well appear to have openings for both a left and a right tackle.....there are certainly other teams that could emerge, and like you said, it only takes one to jack up the price..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarkinBanks Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Shelton a right tackle? Are you all suggesting we would just be signing him for depth? MW is clearly not going anywhere and should have a monster year at RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Shelton a right tackle? Are you all suggesting we would just be signing him for depth? MW is clearly not going anywhere and should have a monster year at RT. 339992[/snapback] shelton can play either -- he was a LT for his first five years in the league, and only shifted to RT last year........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I'll be happy if the Bills sign him, because I trust TD, MM and JM. For the same reasons, I'll be happy if they pass on him. In the end, I am just happy that Dennis Green is eating crow this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Ummm... Travis was a 2nd rounder. 339816[/snapback] Travis has actually played a down in the NFL. Not that it makes any difference to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I'll be happy if the Bills sign him, because I trust TD, MM and JM. For the same reasons, I'll be happy if they pass on him. In the end, I am just happy that Dennis Green is eating crow this morning. 340013[/snapback] Why do people feel like Denny is eating crow. Look , they got the RB they wanted in the slot they would have traded to us. JJ will sign at least a four year deal, with Travis they have to deal with a new contract. And sometimes one takes a risk that a rookie will be able to perform, ala JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDairis Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Lorenzo Diamond is actually an interesting #2 TE prospect - has real wheels and never got a chance. Lo fell into Denny's doghouse last year for whiffing on a block that resulted in a punt block. At Auburn, Lo played on a running team without a downfield passing attack. http://www.ffmastermind.com/2003/premium/m...dayresults.html Lorenzo Diamond (6-3, 253, 4.53/40, 4.28/SS, 7.28/3-cone, 17/BP, 34½"/V, 10’1"/LJ) | Auburn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Why do people feel like Denny is eating crow. Look , they got the RB they wanted in the slot they would have traded to us. JJ will sign at least a four year deal, with Travis they have to deal with a new contract. And sometimes one takes a risk that a rookie will be able to perform, ala JP. 340169[/snapback] Actually....I dont beleive that the cards got the running back they wanted.... Arrington might or might not work out.....Henry has been to the Pro Bowl...he is a proven commodity..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Actually....I dont beleive that the cards got the running back they wanted.... Arrington might or might not work out.....Henry has been to the Pro Bowl...he is a proven commodity..... The Cards got a running back, one who cost them a 2nd round pick and is WHOLLY unproven. That's about all you can say right now. I guess to some, potential is better than someone proven but not perfect. We'll see who was right, but the Cards already released Shelton, and relying on a rookie RB is NEVER a good situation, while at worst Travis is a good backup for 6 games this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 The Cards could have got Henry and Arrington by making that trade with the swap. Kept Henry as the starter for 2005 while they slowly worked in Arrington, had a good back-up in case Henry went down or didnt work out, and could then dump Henry or re-sign him to a long term deal if he played well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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