Anybody see replay of Dion's holding penalty

[freddyjj]

41 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Such a huge play and call. 1:43 left and Diggsy makes an amazing catch. Instantly put us at NYJ49. Was it an egregious flag by Land Shark? If that flag isn't thrown, Josh does get hurt.  Anyone see it on tape or all22?

Courtesy of Buffalo Rumblings, towards bottom of article

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/11/7/23444027/bills-jets-penalty-recap-gabe-davis-sauce-gardner-dion-dawkins

 

 

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Looked like an incredible pancake block to me.  Horrible call.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

 

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, folz said:

Just watched the All-22 of the play a bunch of times.

 

It was a bad call, but I can see how/why the ref made the call. The defender sets up outside Dion's left shoulder, then rushes inside. Dion does a good job of engaging and sliding to keep the man in front of him. From the refs perspective, he sees the defender's head poke out around Dion and then all of a sudden the defender is falling sideways to the ground and Dion has one hand on his shoulder and another around his waist. So, from the refs vantage point it probably looked like the defender was starting to win and Dion tackled him.

 

In reality, as the defender moved to his left, engaged with Dion, Saffold (I believe) pulls off his initial double team block with Morse to help Dion (but gets there late and is behind the defender). At the same time, Morse is being pushed back by his defender. The outcome is a lot of moving feet in the same area and the defender trips. You can clearly see one of the defender's feet get hooked behind the other and he trips. The defender starts falling down to the left and since Dion is still engaged with him, he starts going down too and rides the defender to the ground. Good play by Dion, just unfortunate that from the ref's vantage point, he couldn't see the trip and assumed it was a tackle. There is a possibility that Dion had a good hold on the defender's right shoulder pad, but that would have been tricky-tack and in the category of let them play...but the ref thought it was a tackle.

 

I understand let them play at that point, especially since the refs kept their flags in their pockets a lot that game. But, if it was an actual tackle (from the ref's perspective), then that is egregious enough to call even at that point in the game. 

 

The call definitely went the wrong way, but I don't think there was any bias, or the refs helping the Jets out...just bad luck how everything unfolded and the refs view of it.

I think you got it exactly right.  What the official saw were the things you usually see on a hold - tackle's arms outside the shoulder, defender looked like he was breaking through, defender goes down with tackle on top of him.  But it wasn't actually a hold. Dion had him blocked properly the whole way through the play. 

 

The call might have changed the outcome of the game. 

[Joe Ferguson]

The ref who threw the flag didn't see it either. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

12 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I've never been one to point to one play that decides a game.  Take away the two bone-headed INTs and the Bills aren't worrying about a 4th Quarter comeback.

 

Football is called a “game of inches” for a reason. Sometimes teams do just enough to pull out a win. How many games come down to just a field goal? 

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Football is called a “game of inches” for a reason. Sometimes teams do just enough to pull out a win. How many games come down to just a field goal? 

 

I'm not saying there aren't close games that are decided in the last minute/as time runs out.  I'm saying that there are 59 other minutes of football that had a say in the outcome, as well.

 

[The Wiz]

37 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Does anyone know whether the television crews are being instructed to not show as many replays of questionable calls?  Maybe I’m just making it up in my mind, but I feel like fewer are being shown this year.

I don't know about TV crews but there is a set amount of time that they are given to show replays within the stadium. 

 

This is why when a home team gets an intercepted or td called incomplete, it is on the video board quickly as opposed to an away team doing the same thing and it taking forever to show. 

 

As for the media, they aren't required to show the replay from my understanding. 

[Fleezoid]

Refs suck! 

 

That is all.

[What a Tuel]

33 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I've never been one to point to one play that decides a game.  Take away the two bone-headed INTs and the Bills aren't worrying about a 4th Quarter comeback.

 

 

Take away the 2 ints and the 14-3 ends up being a blow out for sure.

[DRutka]

45 minutes ago, folz said:

from the ref's vantage point it probably looked like the defender was starting to win and Dion tackled him.

 

but the ref thought it was a tackle.

These are the 2 points in your post that are my biggest problem with the "part time" NFL ref's.... 

 

They call what they "think" happens, not what they actually see. If they don't actually see it, don't call it! Rather have missed calls than made up calls. So frustrating. 

[billsbackto81]

59 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

Did Diggs have both feet down? From my elderly memory it looked on the replay like one of them was just above the turf when he went out

Very close. Maybe too close to over turn if the penalty didn't negate the play. It looked like his right toe skimmed the turf.

[Son of a K-Gun]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

I've never been one to point to one play that decides a game.  Take away the two bone-headed INTs and the Bills aren't worrying about a 4th Quarter comeback.

 

why point to a single play when you can point to two?  Brilliant, well played 😁

[Repulsif]

everytime when an offensive penalty is called, TV replay it.

Not this time...

[Buddo]

Thought it was a bad call at the time. But wasn’t unduly surprised that it happened.

Zebras generally get a lot fussier as games come to their conclusion - it’s a large part of why fans get so pissed at some of those calls, as they aren’t being consistent.

Tbh, I’m more annoyed that the consequences end up being Allen getting injured on the next play, which almost certainly wouldn’t have happened, because the distance would have changed probably both the defence, and the offense called.

 

It undoubtedly affected the last part of the game, and I am annoyed that was the case. It prevented, in effect, a whole bunch of possible ways the game could have ended up finishing.

 

Could have been tied, even after an extra period. Jets might still have won in regulation. Bills may have won in regulation. Either team might have won in an extra period. 
 

It actually feels like we (fans) were cheated a bit from getting our money’s worth.

 

Any time a player gets injured after a bad call, is not a good look for the game.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, RobbRiddick said:

Did Diggs have both feet down? From my elderly memory it looked on the replay like one of them was just above the turf when he went out

 

I think it's possible Diggs didn't have both feet down and the catch would have been overturned.  But if that had happened, 2nd and 10 is better than 2nd and 20.

[Jauronimo]

Looks like he tackled the guy.  If Dion was in such great position why not stay in front of him?  Pretty sure we would see it differently is Von was blowing past a guy and was form tackled.

[Breakout Squad]

2 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

The fact that they didn't replay it on TV was a huge indication on how bad of a call it was.

And I found it frustrating how many commercials there were even with the camera malfunction. In the past if they’ve played enough commercials the commentators would stay live and talk about the game. They showed very few replays and I’m sick of Charles Davis acting like the smartest man in football. How many times has he mentioned that a pass in the flat to the RB is a running play. 

27 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think it's possible Diggs didn't have both feet down and the catch would have been overturned.  But if that had happened, 2nd and 10 is better than 2nd and 20.

Oh it was definitely a catch. Right?! 🤪

[LABILLBACKER]

30 minutes ago, Buddo said:

Thought it was a bad call at the time. But wasn’t unduly surprised that it happened.

Zebras generally get a lot fussier as games come to their conclusion - it’s a large part of why fans get so pissed at some of those calls, as they aren’t being consistent.

Tbh, I’m more annoyed that the consequences end up being Allen getting injured on the next play, which almost certainly wouldn’t have happened, because the distance would have changed probably both the defence, and the offense called.

 

It undoubtedly affected the last part of the game, and I am annoyed that was the case. It prevented, in effect, a whole bunch of possible ways the game could have ended up finishing.

 

Could have been tied, even after an extra period. Jets might still have won in regulation. Bills may have won in regulation. Either team might have won in an extra period. 
 

It actually feels like we (fans) were cheated a bit from getting our money’s worth.

 

Any time a player gets injured after a bad call, is not a good look for the game.

If Brady is back there making that throw to Diggs, no way Dion gets called.  The idea of having 2 viable NY metropolitan teams is very appealing to the NFL. Josh has to win a SB to get that flag not come out. It was a slight hold but hardly egregious. Late in a game it has to be egregious. And even then it might not get called (Saints waffle iron hit).

[Breakout Squad]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you got it exactly right.  What the official saw were the things you usually see on a hold - tackle's arms outside the shoulder, defender looked like he was breaking through, defender goes down with tackle on top of him.  But it wasn't actually a hold. Dion had him blocked properly the whole way through the play. 

 

The call might have changed the outcome of the game. 

Plus the refs called very little all game. I was upset it was called but since they didn’t show a replay I didn’t know if it was legit or not. I would think the refs would let them play but maybe they were hypersensitive to the fact that the o-line was going to do whatever they could to keep Josh upright.