Yes I know injuries on Defense... But they've been bad the last two weeks....

[Southern Bills Fan]

I have to admit that when we get teams in 3rd and 12 and give up first downs about 75 percent of the time, it’s pretty frustrating. 

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

They let them get to the 1 yard line and convert 4th & 18 amongst other things.  Again Minnesota botched a lot of things that game too (including not scoring a td first possession of OT).  

 

All depends on how you look at things.

 

They made the stop they needed despite being down their entire starting secondary and their MLB and defensive signal caller. And you want to blame them over the highly paid QB and center who botched a snap. 

 

I mean you can look at it that way. But it makes zero sense.

[oldmanfan]

57 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Look in the mirror.  This board is full of people.  I'm pointing out observations I have.  We all know there are injuries.  

 

But be honest the defense has been bad.  Tired of but but but....  

You are a self-obsessed nut case.  Look at Chubb yesterday.

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They made the stop they needed despite being down their entire starting secondary and their MLB and defensive signal caller. And you want to blame them over the highly paid QB and center who botched a snap. 

 

I mean you can look at it that way. But it makes zero sense.

Tell you what, we all want the team to win.  Can we agree on that?

 

I am pointing out issues and did this prior to the Minnesota game.  I thought it was embarrassing letting Zach Wilson and the Jets walk up and down the field and time consuming drives (as stated in this thread).   

 

I have been a little concerned about the defense for a while and that is why I started the thread.

 

On to Detroit and hope the Offense too wakes up.  Wasn't at all happy with them yesterday either (outside the running game)

 

How about we leave it at that?  

[SoCal Deek]

I’m certainly no defensive mastermind but given the numerous injuries in the back half of the Bills defense what would anyone on here suggest they do differently? My initial reaction would be to blitz more, especially on third and long, but Frazier ‘seems like’ he hasn’t changed a thing. Anyone? 

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You are a self-obsessed nut case.  Look at Chubb yesterday.

And you crankyoldmanfan????

 

The Browns are 3-7 (Pat won 38-15, Dolphins 39-17).  Did not beat a juggernaut.

[Eastport bills]

On 11/8/2022 at 3:16 PM, Billsfan1972 said:

At least 6 quarters.  Enough about points allowed, the opposition is moving the ball easily, which keeps the offense on the sidelines.

 

Pickett a rookie had over 300 yards passing (yes a blowout, but nonetheless).  Gashed by the run the last 6 quarters.

 

No way should they allow have allowed Zach Wilson 72% completion % and the Jets to control TOP.

When you lose Edmunds or Milano and Poyer doesn’t play or is limited,with  this secondary you can’t stop the run or the pass. Beane has been deficient in providing quality depth knowing Hyde, White and Poyer would miss multiple games. Couple that with starting 2 inexperienced rookies at corner and you have a situation where Josh and the offense have no room for errors. With what our expectations were coming into the season, Beane has been a disappointment. His pro-scouting dept has given us Xavier Rhodes. 

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Tell you what, we all want the team to win.  Can we agree on that?

 

I am pointing out issues and did this prior to the Minnesota game.  I thought it was embarrassing letting Zach Wilson and the Jets walk up and down the field and time consuming drives (as stated in this thread).   

 

I have been a little concerned about the defense for a while and that is why I started the thread.

 

On to Detroit and hope the Offense too wakes up.  Wasn't at all happy with them yesterday either (outside the running game)

 

How about we leave it at that?  

 

I do agree with that. I haven't even disagreed that there are issues with the defense. Especially against the Jets they didn't play their best game. But Allen was the single biggest reason for those defeats. I'm not closed minded to the defensive issues. They are still not great against teams who are willing and able to stick resolutely to the run and the secondary they are currently fielding down variously 3 or 4 starters the last 3 weeks is not good enough. But the job they have done for the injuries they have had has been remarkable. And when the offense was hurting earlier in the year - Davis, Knox, Brown, McKenzie etc... the defense locked games down (and the offense barely missed a beat) When the defense is hurting the offense hasn't lived up to its part of the bargain IMO.

[Billsfan1972]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do agree with that. I haven't even disagreed that there are issues with the defense. Especially against the Jets they didn't play their best game. But Allen was the single biggest reason for those defeats. I'm not closed minded to the defensive issues. They are still not great against teams who are willing and able to stick resolutely to the run and the secondary they are currently fielding down variously 3 or 4 starters the last 3 weeks is not good enough. But the job they have done for the injuries they have had has been remarkable. And when the offense was hurting earlier in the year - Davis, Knox, Brown, McKenzie etc... the defense locked games down (and the offense barely missed a beat) When the defense is hurting the offense hasn't lived up to its part of the bargain IMO.

Agreed.....  Allen has me dumbfounded.  

 

As a huge fan I'll defend him, like I did vs. the Jets and said that when the Jets gobbled up over 8 minutes that first drive of the second half, Allen came in and pressed, thus the int.  Add to that the phantom holding call on the Diggs catch cost them 36 yards.  Davis dropped the 4th down dime too.

 

Minnesota never should have happened, but all started with that 86 yard run (if only 25 yards the game plays out different too).    

[DJB]

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 minutes ago, DJB said:

 

 

I can be skeptical of some of these advanced stat type charts, but this one I can believe 100%. 

 

The Bills DEF is incredible at getting to RBs early, and terrible at actually tackling them. Can't count how many times we hit an RB in the backfield for what should be a 3 yard loss, and the RB turns it into a 3 yard gain. Or how often a LB (cough *Edmunds* cough) gets piggybacked to turn a 3 yard gain into an 8 yard gain. 

 

Overall we're still pretty good against the run, but we could be so much better if guys made tackles 

[Low Positive]

11 minutes ago, DJB said:

 

I just wrote a whole post about that chart but realised that it was too preachy. But the gist of it is that that is a bad data visualisation. This fantasy guy plays with the scales to make small differences seem much larger. He did it with run block win rate earlier this season. When scientists do this it’s called data dredging or p-hacking. 

12 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I can be skeptical of some of these advanced stat type charts, but this one I can believe 100%. 

 

The Bills DEF is incredible at getting to RBs early, and terrible at actually tackling them. Can't count how many times we hit an RB in the backfield for what should be a 3 yard loss, and the RB turns it into a 3 yard gain. Or how often a LB (cough *Edmunds* cough) gets piggybacked to turn a 3 yard gain into an 8 yard gain. 

 

Overall we're still pretty good against the run, but we could be so much better if guys made tackles 

According to that chart, they are giving up .7 yards per carry more than the league average. Not even a whole yard. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

7 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I just wrote a whole post about that chart but realised that it was too preachy. But the gist of it is that that is a bad data visualisation. This fantasy guy plays with the scales to make small differences seem much larger. He did it with run block win rate earlier this season. When scientists do this it’s called data dredging or p-hacking. 

According to that chart, they are giving up .7 yards per carry more than the league average. Not even a whole yard. 

 

We're giving up 0.7 more yards per carry AFTER CONTACT than the league average. When league average is 3.0 that's actually a pretty significant 23% difference.

 

I think it's fair to say our team has a tackling problem in the run game. Even though, overall, we're still pretty good against the run. 

 

 

[Big Turk]

Literally the biggest issue on this team is the defense when up by 2+ scores. It has been astoundingly atrocious.  We used to WANT teams to drop back and pass against us because it was a no fly zone.  Now they are just moving the ball with ease through the air and scoring without any issues.  Not sure what they are doing differently or if it simply too much personnel loss on defense, but to me, THIS is the biggest problem with this team.  It has cost us twice against the Jets and Vikings.  Jets ran the ball a lot but still...they made pass plays when needed.  Bills seemingly don't have any answers for when teams want to drop back and pass.

 

Watching the Cowboys simply demolish the Vikings and sack Cousins repeatedly was just impressive...Bills get a lot of pressure but for whatever reason they seemingly have started the whole "let the QB escape" thing again even when they have numbers to bring him down.  Is it players not staying in their pass rush lanes? One person freelancing too much? I don't know...something seems off with the D and it gets amplified when they are up big. The Bills should have sacked Brissett 4-5 times yesterday and they only got him once.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Big Turk

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m certainly no defensive mastermind but given the numerous injuries in the back half of the Bills defense what would anyone on here suggest they do differently? My initial reaction would be to blitz more, especially on third and long, but Frazier ‘seems like’ he hasn’t changed a thing. Anyone? 

 

I get your thinking, but the problem with blitzing when we are down guys in the Secondary, is you end up having to take even more guys out of coverage in order to blitz which only serves to further weaken your secondary and coverage.

 

If we're blitzing, that means we are taking Milano, Edmunds, or Taron out of coverage and putting more pressure on the backups filling in at DB.

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I get your thinking, but the problem with blitzing when we are down guys in the Secondary, is you end up having to take even more guys out of coverage in order to blitz which only serves to further weaken your secondary and coverage.

 

If we're blitzing, that means we are taking Milano, Edmunds, or Taron out of coverage and putting more pressure on the backups filling in at DB.

Obviously…but by that same token nobody would ever blitz. Edmunds and Milano are not covering guts twenty yards downfield on an out route. 
 

What would you suggest?

[BillyBilliams]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

You are a self-obsessed nut case.  Look at Chubb yesterday.

 

They committed to stopping Chubb.  They didn't commit to stopping 3rd and 12.....

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Obviously…but by that same token nobody would ever blitz. Edmunds and Milano are not covering guts twenty yards downfield on an out route. 
 

What would you suggest?

 

Well, it's easier to blitz when you run man instead of a soft zone. And our LBs do get pretty deep at times.

 

I'm with Frazier and keeping things the same. Rush 4, Drop 7. Not much more we can do.

 

It will help to get Groot back.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Well, it's easier to blitz when you run man instead of a soft zone. And our LBs do get pretty deep at times.

 

I'm with Frazier and keeping things the same. Rush 4, Drop 7. Not much more we can do.

 

It will help to get Groot back.

Thanks….it’s definitely a challenge.