K D Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Your point is well taken. The Democratic Party on the national level today bears little resemblance to the very successful Democratic Party of Bill Clinton. But have you looked at the Republican Party lately? How is the Trump 2016 platform - one that was left standing in 2020, the Party leaders being afraid of publicizing it again - related to, say, the Bush 41 platform? The Reagan platforms? As I mentioned elsewhere, there's just one constant: overturn Roe v. Wade. Everything else is different. Free trade? That's so 1986. Balanced budget? Ditto. And on and on. Third parties always fail in our electoral system. But sometimes you need them to carve out a new space in the center and to start dragging the Republicans AND Democrats back there. I'm not saying the other side is necessarily better, I'm saying there needs to be a rebalance. The group in power went too far one way and I think a lot of people realize that but tribalism is a real thing and they will never vote for the other side no matter what. It's not about voting for the other side, it's about showing the side in power that they screwed up. If things keep going this way then it will certainly carve out a space for a 3rd party. I've spoken to many people that said the Left went crazy but they would never vote for Trump. So where does that leave us as a country?
B-Man Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said: I'm not saying the other side is necessarily better, I'm saying there needs to be a rebalance. The group in power went too far one way and I think a lot of people realize that but tribalism is a real thing and they will never vote for the other side no matter what. It's not about voting for the other side, it's about showing the side in power that they screwed up. If things keep going this way then it will certainly carve out a space for a 3rd party. I've spoken to many people that said the Left went crazy but they would never vote for Trump. So where does that leave us as a country? True. That's why I am hoping that the GOP takes over the Senate by one and the House by just a few. Adults in both parties (sadly a minority) may finally take this opportunity to work together to pass some bills that actually address problems. Rather than mis-titled bills that only reward the ruling classes. . 1
HomeskillitMoorman Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 The big thing with conservatives when it comes to abortion is such a huge chunk of them are pro-birth rather than actually being pro-life, and what it reflects about them. One of the examples is a good percentage of pro-life people are also against gay marriage, which can affect the ability to adopt. You could have a kid that's in a terrible foster home that a loving, supportive gay couple would like to adopt and the kid wants to go there and could be in a stable home, and they can refuse it if they are not comfortable with having gay parents. Here's what those conservatives want to tell a kid like that..."YOU shouldn't get to have that because of MY personal religious beliefs". It's sickening. It's not about the life of children, it's about control. It's a microcosm of what that party and wanting to integrate church into state is all about. The idea that they want "less government" is the biggest crock of ***** and most young people can see that. I'd probably consider myself more Libertarian than anything, because I actually want less government involvement. 2 1
ChiGoose Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, B-Man said: True. That's why I am hoping that the GOP takes over the Senate by one and the House by just a few. Adults in both parties (sadly a minority) may finally take this opportunity to work together to pass some bills that actually address problems. Rather than mis-titled bills that only reward the ruling classes. . Given our current electoral system, partisan media environment, and geographic sorting, there is no fixing this without electoral reform and getting rid of FPTP. Only then can people successfully challenge the status quo and two-party dominance.
Big Blitz Posted November 10, 2022 Author Posted November 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: The big thing with conservatives when it comes to abortion is such a huge chunk of them are pro-birth rather than actually being pro-life, and what it reflects about them. One of the examples is a good percentage of pro-life people are also against gay marriage, which can affect the ability to adopt. You could have a kid that's in a terrible foster home that a loving, supportive gay couple would like to adopt and the kid wants to go there and could be in a stable home, and they can refuse it if they are not comfortable with having gay parents. Here's what those conservatives want to tell a kid like that..."YOU shouldn't get to have that because of MY personal religious beliefs". It's sickening. It's not about the life of children, it's about control. It's a microcosm of what that party and wanting to integrate church into state is all about. The idea that they want "less government" is the biggest crock of ***** and most young people can see that. I'd probably consider myself more Libertarian than anything, because I actually want less government involvement. Literally no conservatives of any significance in any kind of majority number - nowhere close - are saying gay parents can’t adopt. That’s absurd. What we will argue is the State can’t make a religious foster care center adopt out to gay couples if it violates their religious convictions or beliefs. And I’m not even sure how many of those do actually refuse. 2
SCBills Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: The big thing with conservatives when it comes to abortion is such a huge chunk of them are pro-birth rather than actually being pro-life, and what it reflects about them. One of the examples is a good percentage of pro-life people are also against gay marriage, which can affect the ability to adopt. You could have a kid that's in a terrible foster home that a loving, supportive gay couple would like to adopt and the kid wants to go there and could be in a stable home, and they can refuse it if they are not comfortable with having gay parents. Here's what those conservatives want to tell a kid like that..."YOU shouldn't get to have that because of MY personal religious beliefs". It's sickening. It's not about the life of children, it's about control. It's a microcosm of what that party and wanting to integrate church into state is all about. The idea that they want "less government" is the biggest crock of ***** and most young people can see that. I'd probably consider myself more Libertarian than anything, because I actually want less government involvement. This reads as opinion. Gay Marriage opps is so 1990’s So much so that gay white men are aligning more and more with conservatives because they’ve become “straight adjacent”. 1
Sundancer Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 1 hour ago, BillsFanNC said: You must have missed the second time where I said that fraud, specifically with mail in ballots is nearly impossible to prove. Which again is the whole point of why bad actors want more of it and why people who want honest, transparent elections want less of it. Ah yes, the old “there’s no evidence so that proves it” rationale. You get top marks for that in Conspiracy 101. 1 hour ago, BillsFanNC said: And there were extensive investigations? The most investigations ever? Really? Because I recall the DHS in November 2020, just days aftet the election, telling us that the election was the most secure election in US history. Case closed. Shut up if you dare question it. That was a really quick extensive investigation. Especially for the government. Can you link us to the report that they released showing us how super duper extra secure everything was? Less than 500 convictions despite the inferno of watchers and complaining. Just wasn’t there. Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy? No evidence could mean she’s real.
HomeskillitMoorman Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Literally no conservatives of any significance in any kind of majority number - nowhere close - are saying gay parents can’t adopt. That’s absurd. What we will argue is the State can’t make a religious foster care center adopt out to gay couples if it violates their religious convictions or beliefs. And I’m not even sure how many of those do actually refuse. Sure they do, they held it up in many places for a long time and many want to go back to that. What do you think they mean they want to "go back to supporting traditional marriage"? Clarence Thomas basically came out and said it. People like DeSantis and Boebert have pretty much openly said they want to bring church into state, which is scary stuff. Also, shouldn't it be up to the child in that religious foster care center if they want to be adopted out to a gay couple if that's an option? I wouldn't believe in any kid having to go to adoptive parents that they don't want to go with whether they are heterosexual or homosexual, but if a kid in the custody of that foster care center wanted to be adopted out to gay parents, they 100% should be able to. They'd probably have to face being shunned by religious nutjobs which is unfortunate, but it would be the right thing.
HomeskillitMoorman Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 17 minutes ago, SCBills said: This reads as opinion. Gay Marriage opps is so 1990’s So much so that gay white men are aligning more and more with conservatives because they’ve become “straight adjacent”. Then you probably aren't paying attention to the growing amount of conservatives who are pushing to bring church into state, including some of the most popular ones right now. That was one example, but conservatives want to push government into some of the biggest human rights issues that exist. Look at assisted death for people who are suffering, or the integration of new natural medicines that are approved by doctors. I'm former military and I know some that struggle immensely with PTSD...there is amazing research around the benefits of treatment from MDMA/shrooms that doctors recommend for them but they'd have to go to Oregon to get it. It's heavily opposed to by majority conservatives. Listen to the messaging there. Again, it's "YOU shouldn't get to have that because of MY beliefs". Just like it's telling someone who's suffering "YOU shouldn't get to die peacefully if that's what you want because of MY beliefs". Again, the rally cry from conservatives about less government is just such bull####. The Democratic party for the most part just fundraises and I have no idea where the money goes, so I have my issues with them as well. My leanings on that side are more with progression when it comes to human rights.
Big Blitz Posted November 10, 2022 Author Posted November 10, 2022 Yep - bc low info college kids aren’t voting on Election Day - but looooong lines https://twitter.com/thelastrefuge2/status/1590775258172329993?s=46&t=UfZTWxwjENltDpfqg42GNg
Doc Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Liberal media opinion piece? Yup. Carries more weight.
BillsFanNC Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 40 minutes ago, Sundancer said: Ah yes, the old “there’s no evidence so that proves it” rationale. You get top marks for that in Conspiracy 101. Less than 500 convictions despite the inferno of watchers and complaining. Just wasn’t there. Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy? No evidence could mean she’s real. Another hack leftist. Carry on.
ArdmoreRyno Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Backintheday544 said: LOTS of outstanding military ballots... and again, the 'in person' voting is overwhelmingly GOP.
Chef Jim Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 1 hour ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: The big thing with conservatives when it comes to abortion is such a huge chunk of them are pro-birth rather than actually being pro-life, and what it reflects about them. One of the examples is a good percentage of pro-life people are also against gay marriage, which can affect the ability to adopt. You could have a kid that's in a terrible foster home that a loving, supportive gay couple would like to adopt and the kid wants to go there and could be in a stable home, and they can refuse it if they are not comfortable with having gay parents. Here's what those conservatives want to tell a kid like that..."YOU shouldn't get to have that because of MY personal religious beliefs". It's sickening. It's not about the life of children, it's about control. It's a microcosm of what that party and wanting to integrate church into state is all about. The idea that they want "less government" is the biggest crock of ***** and most young people can see that. I'd probably consider myself more Libertarian than anything, because I actually want less government involvement. I'm a dyed in the wool conservative. I waiver on abortion but lean more towards keeping it legal (up to a reasonable amount of time) and safe and am absolutely for gay marriage. I have been for years based on my career work the past 20 plus years. I doubt I'm the only one. Oh and I'm a huge non-believer. Guess I'm a conundrum.
HomeskillitMoorman Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: I'm a dyed in the wool conservative. I waiver on abortion but lean more towards keeping it legal (up to a reasonable amount of time) and safe and am absolutely for gay marriage. I have been for years based on my career work the past 20 plus years. I doubt I'm the only one. Oh and I'm a huge non-believer. Guess I'm a conundrum. That's good, that means you think for yourself. But then I'm not sure why you would classify yourself as dyed in the wool conservative. What is the party's actual message? It's certainly not "less government" or I myself would also probably be because that's what I seek for the most part.
Chef Jim Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: That's good, that means you think for yourself. But then I'm not sure why you would classify yourself as dyed in the wool conservative. What is the party's actual message? It's certainly not "less government" or I myself would also probably be because that's what I seek for the most part. I think you're confusing conservatives with the Republican party of today. As a matter of fact you even referred to the "conservative party". Conservativism is not a political party it's a philosophy.
HomeskillitMoorman Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: I think you're confusing conservatives with the Republican party of today. As a matter of fact you even referred to the "conservative party". Conservativism is not a political party it's a philosophy. That's fair, but I think even the philosophy overall is a muddled, inconsistent one. What do you consider it to be?
aristocrat Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 dems gonna be returning some donations 1
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