Coaching Staff has to take a huge blame for yesterday

[Buckets]

1 hour ago, BillyBilliams said:

 

For sure, Josh Allen's mistakes cost the team the game.  However, not recognizing that Josh was under duress the entire game and not going for short routes, instead opting for intermediate and deep routes (which were taken away) is something the coaching staff should have seen and adjusted to.  It blows my mind that we lose when Josh plays bad.  If we have the most complete roster, they should be able to win games when Allen isn't himself.  

I don't think our OC helped much Sunday. I think he needs to take much of the blame.

[Believer]

4 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Experts who just guess as to Godwin vs. White's surgery and recovery timeline. 😂

Not a medical expert… Just try to stay informed… My understanding from BN articles, McD and Tre’s own comments… is White was cleared to practice…  practiced last week with full contact… and just hasn’t felt ready for game play yet… If accurate, he could have played… He needs to get back to playing

[Dopey]

1 minute ago, Believer said:

Not a medical expert… Just try to stay informed… My understanding from BN articles, McD and Tre’s own comments… is White was cleared to practice…  practiced last week with full contact… and just hasn’t felt ready for game play yet… If accurate, he could have played… He needs to get back to playing

When ready.

[Stampede]

2 hours ago, BillyBilliams said:

However, not recognizing that Josh was under duress the entire game and not going for short routes, instead opting for intermediate and deep routes (which were taken away) is something the coaching staff should have seen and adjusted to.

I agree with most everything you've said, but isn't this on Josh? Wasn't this the area where he showed improvement? Completing the underneath routes and taking what the defense was giving him? I'm hoping this is a wake-up call for the team (actually I thought the Miami loss would have been, oh well).

[HOUSE]

This loss is squarely on Josh Allen.

 

Bad game, oh well

 

..

Edited November 7, 2022 by HOUSE

[Dan]

3 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

The Jets played and coached like it was their Super Bowl, that’s why we lost

If we can’t beat teams like the Jets and Dolphins that are “playing like it’s their Super Bowl”... what chance would we have if we played someone that actually was in the Super Bowl?

Edited November 7, 2022 by Dan

[Nitro]

Dorsey and his game plan looks like something out of Madden.  Try to the short to intermediate routes for the receivers and this will help the O line.  The running game is an after thought.  12 runs by the RBs,  Hard to get in a rhythm with that many chances.  Allen needs to be brought back to earth and work on  what he is seeing in the Red Zone.  The sloppy play, season long, is something that they can improve on.  Tighten up!  Defense starts on the line and too many of those guys are failying to set the edge and maintain their gaps. Stay healthy and play disciplined football. 

[Dan]

16 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

This loss is squarely on Josh Allen.

 

Bad game, oh well

 

..

I’m gonna disagree a little... first let me say Josh did not play a great game, made bad throws and reads.  He clearly owns some of the blame for the loss. 

But the Bills punted and the Jets took over in a tie game, 7mins left at their 4 yard line.   The defense absolutely has to get a stop.   They gave up several long, methodical drives for a score.  And that one was the worst.   Our defense more often than not seems to give up that final score when they just shouldn’t. 
 

Despite all that, Gabe Davis has a few drops on the day.  And the worst was the final offensive play of the game for the Bills. Josh hit him perfectly in his chest 60ish yards down the field. And the ball literally fell untouched through his arms.   At the very least we should have had a shot at a long, end of regulation FG attempt.   Davis just has to catch that ball. 
 

I think to place all the blame squarely on Josh is just overlooking all the plays that it seemed the entire team didn’t make at one point or another. 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Dan

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, BillyBilliams said:

Yes, Josh Allen played a clunker.  However, my frustration lies on the coaching staff.  I simply have 2 questions that I'd like for them to answer.  

 

1.  This team has just signed TE Dawson Knox to a 4yr $52M, $20M gtd deal with the thought that he will be an important asset to the passing game. He's a big body that can create mismatches.  He's not a Kelce or a Kittle by no means, but he could play those kind of roles.  If the O-Line is having problems pass blocking, why isn't Knox being used as a safety valve?  Is it scheme?  Is it him not getting separation?  Is it trust?  20 receptions for 183 isn't going to get it done (I'm actually SHOCKED he has 20 catches.  It feels like he maybe has 10).  

 

2.  If the Buffalo Bills were playing the Kansas City Chiefs yesterday, would Jordan Poyer or Matt Milano be playing?  If the answer is yes, then why were they sat out for this game?  Personally, I'm not really worried about the NFC games.   You can lose those and be fine.  However, to sit out most of your important players on defense so they can rest up and "play the long game" can be done against the Vikings, not the Jets or any team in the AFC, and especially the AFCE.  I only say that because Bulldog on WGR550 said he understands them playing the long game and long term health of the team.  The AFC is turning into the logjam that we thought.  It's just with different teams.  Instead of the Raiders, it's the Jets.  Instead of the Broncos, it's the Patriots.  I can see them doing playing the long game with NFC teams, but if they are even at 75%, you have to let them play AFC and divisional opponents.  Poyer even said himself on his Podcast that he'll be ok.  If they play in the game and you can clearly see there is an issue, there is no shame sitting them out and putting Bernard and Johnson in.  But you HAVE to let these guys play if they can.  If they can't, that's another story.  These tiebreakers that we consistently lose has literally cost this team a Super Bowl.

 

 

I'm not a "sky is falling" state right now.  They still control their own destiny.  They win out, it doesn't matter what KC, Miami, Jets does, because Buffalo would still be the 1 seed.  The offense has played bad for 6 quarters now.  If they win that game, we are feeling the exact same way as Chiefs fans are feeling right now.....offense played a clunker, but they got out with a win, and it's hard to win in the league.  However, something needs to be done, and the coaching staff needs to figure it out.  Davis and Knox MUST find a way into this passing game.  They NEED to scheme extension of the run plays (jet sweeps, etc).  Cook has looked good.  We need to see more of him.  

 

 

 

1.      Will be interesting to see mid week when snap count numbers come out, but seems past couple of weeks they played more snaps using a fullback and/or 2 TE sets.  That may be the biggest issue with Allen he's got one eye on WR and other eye on rushers coming towards him.

 

2.      Not so easy to do this as you now have activated two more players who may not make it through the game.  There were 5 LB's active yesterday and 9 DB's with 3 true safeties.  If you're not sure they are going to make it through the game OK are you still only going to go with 5 LB's and 3 safeties or would you still keep all 5 LB's active plus Milano to be on the cautious side and do a similar thing with safety?  Likely the answer is yes so then what two other position groups are you instead going to go light with.  Probably wouldn't have activated Himes for one, but where's the other one coming from, D line?  I know prior if a player was questionable injury they'd usually bump the total numbers up for that group to be safe.

 

Wouldn't be shocked if the coaching/training staff kind of have an unwritten rule of thumb that if they feel a player can make through maybe 50% of snaps we'll play him, but if not sure he can go that far, then not worth taking a roster slot for him.  What that number is, who knows??

[Brennan Huff]

21 minutes ago, Dan said:

If we can’t beat teams like the Jets and Dolphins that are “playing like it’s their Super Bowl”... what chance would we have if we played someone that actually was in the Super Bowl?

That was my point. It wasn’t a “Super Bowl” for us. You could tell how bad they wanted that win yesterday 

[Chandler#81]

Thank you, OP. I was flamed for much of the same rhetoric yesterday in the Pregame Thread, but I stand behind my accusations.

 

Frankly, I like McDermott less & less anymore. These mega-millionaire players today have no idea what their forefathers in the League went through. Todays pro-athletes are watered down pansiegirls. When you have an overly worried HC, you get players taking off games -MEANINGFUL games for literally nothing players of old fought through. There were no ‘obliques’. They were called Tummy Aches and you damn sure better be on the field at game time. Not because you were worried about your job, it was because your team needed you playing. Feel a *POP* in your elbow? Do what Ronnie Lott did. Chop the damn thing off at the bicep and gitcherass back in the game! High Ankle sprains? Turf toe? Bell rung? Suck it up, Buttercup. Grammas get these boo-boo’s. Football players DON’T. The Bills championship teams of the 60’s saw everyone who’s legs weren’t broke play. 
GOTDAMN PUNKS!

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Chandler#81

[HomeskillitMoorman]

#17 will rebound. The coaching staff has been a problem for a while though and IMO cost us a Superbowl last season. That's the difference. 

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, BillyBilliams said:

Yes, Josh Allen played a clunker.  However, my frustration lies on the coaching staff.  I simply have 2 questions that I'd like for them to answer.  

 

1.  This team has just signed TE Dawson Knox to a 4yr $52M, $20M gtd deal with the thought that he will be an important asset to the passing game. He's a big body that can create mismatches.  He's not a Kelce or a Kittle by no means, but he could play those kind of roles.  If the O-Line is having problems pass blocking, why isn't Knox being used as a safety valve?  Is it scheme?  Is it him not getting separation?  Is it trust?  20 receptions for 183 isn't going to get it done (I'm actually SHOCKED he has 20 catches.  It feels like he maybe has 10).  

 

2.  If the Buffalo Bills were playing the Kansas City Chiefs yesterday, would Jordan Poyer or Matt Milano be playing?  If the answer is yes, then why were they sat out for this game?  Personally, I'm not really worried about the NFC games.   You can lose those and be fine.  However, to sit out most of your important players on defense so they can rest up and "play the long game" can be done against the Vikings, not the Jets or any team in the AFC, and especially the AFCE.  I only say that because Bulldog on WGR550 said he understands them playing the long game and long term health of the team.  The AFC is turning into the logjam that we thought.  It's just with different teams.  Instead of the Raiders, it's the Jets.  Instead of the Broncos, it's the Patriots.  I can see them doing playing the long game with NFC teams, but if they are even at 75%, you have to let them play AFC and divisional opponents.  Poyer even said himself on his Podcast that he'll be ok.  If they play in the game and you can clearly see there is an issue, there is no shame sitting them out and putting Bernard and Johnson in.  But you HAVE to let these guys play if they can.  If they can't, that's another story.  These tiebreakers that we consistently lose has literally cost this team a Super Bowl.

 

I actually disagree about both points.  

 

As to Knox, it may be true that if the offense were playing better, Knox might have better stats.  But from the coach's perspective, they could care less what his stats are.   If you have a true game changer - Diggs and Allen are true game changers, then yes, coaches should do something if those guys aren't getting touches.   Knox is not a true game changer, and I don't think the Bills expect that he ever will be.   He's a good, useful guy to have at TE.  

 

Each week the coaches figure out what they think will work best against the opposing defense.   They may be good at that or they may not be, but it certainly isn't their job to look for ways to improve anyone's stats.  They're looking for ways to score points, and from week to week to week that may or may not have something to do with Knox.  

 

As for the injuries, I disagree.   Playoffs, those guys are dressing.  Milano, Poyer, even White, in whatever condition he was in yesterday.  Maybe in December.  Some guys actually did get back for the Chiefs game, and who knows how many were actually ready and how many of them limited in what they could do.  But in general, good teams absolutely do NOT play games in the first week of November like they games in the third week of January.   They don't.  They don't because it takes a big physical and emotional toll on the players, and it's very difficult to hold up physically and emotionally playing that level for three months.   No good teams do it.  Teams that may be in the process of becoming good teams, and teams that want to be good teams do it, like the Jets did yesterday.  But those teams change as they get good, because they learn.  The Bills are past that stage.  They've had their signature "we're here" wins, and now their eyes are squarely fixed on what works to get them to their ultimate goal.  

 

Here's an interesting measure:  During the period that Belichick and Brady together, did the Patriots have a better record inside or outside the division?  Turns out, they had a better record outside the division.  That is, on average, the Bills, Jets and Dolphins beat the Patriots more often than the rest of the league.   Why is that?   One reason is because every year or two, each of the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins were good enough to have an outside chance of beating the Pats.   When they got to that point, for them the Patriots game was like the Super Bowl.   So, they won more often than the rest of the league.  Sure, the Pats played division winners outside their own division, but division winners often regress the next season, so that they aren't such good competition.   

 

If all it took was to play every game like it was the Super Bowl, everyone would do that.   No one does, because it's not possible to sustain that attitude over months.   

 

Think about - the Bills still have three months of games, one a week, ahead of them.  

[TwistofFate]

3 hours ago, BillyBilliams said:

 

And that's where the coaching staff needs to recognize that and implement quick screens, or quick passes for Knox to make plays.  We don't have the luxury to not use a player like Knox.  He HAS to play better.

 

What the coaching staff needs to do is run the ball in those situations.  The Jets did to us what we do to everyone.  4 man rush, 7 in pass protection, take away all big plays and blanket everyone. 

 

The real problem is we don't have a legit running back who can take the rock and an make them pay for having 7 deep.  That would force them to move up and have respect for the run.  Buffalo is one dimensional because of personnel not because of what the defense does. 

 

This is a copy cat league and this is the second week in a row we've been attacked like this.  I expect to see the same thing from the Vikings next week until we have an answer.

[Meatloaf63]

3 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I'd take the production we got out of Beasley any day over what we are getting from Davis.  Some deep balls every few games and then disappearing for big chucks of time is not what you should be getting from a WR2.

Exactly, that position desperately needs an upgrade, we need more speed. Look what it’s done for Tua.

[hemma]

4 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

And people will blame the OL, not realizing that most OL's going up against a good Front 4 will struggle when every play is drop back and wait for long developing routes to be run.  

 

Dorsey needs to take some of the freedom away from Allen if he can't trust Allen to take checkdowns as part of the long game.   Send in plays where the first read is a shallow route or throw to the flat from time to time.  Don't make him think... just dial it up and keep dialing them up until the defense adjusts.  Allen has the strongest arm, maybe ever, doesn't matter when teams are dropping 7 and the DL can pin their ears back and rush. 

Good post

[Billz4ever]

6 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Exactly, that position desperately needs an upgrade, we need more speed. Look what it’s done for Tua.

I was first of the opinion we didn't need OBJ.  I'm now seriously having to reconsider.  

[US Egg]

When JA17 is on so is coaching.

 

I am beginning to see a pattern.

 

[Peter]

Many believe that Brandon Beane has put together the best roster in the league.

 

At the end of the year, we will see what McD is able to do with the "best roster in the league."  I will wait until then to fully evaluate him.

 

In the meantime, some here were upset with others who pointed out the deficiencies in the game against the Packers.

 

Not surprising, the Jets (whose OC is the brother of the Packers' HC) had a similar game plan and ran all over us. Josh had moments against the Packers and the Jets that reminded me of the rookie version of Josh.

 

I am still all in on Josh. As for McCoach, I will reserve final judgment until after the season. We shall see how he and the team respond.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

This loss is squarely on Josh Allen.

 

Bad game, oh well

 

..

 

Yup.  1 turnover takes 3 off the board, another gave them field position for 7.  The jets only scored 20.  Even with getting gashed in the run game they still only scored 3 on that last drive.