WR2/SLOT & Allen/Dorsey

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

OBJ had ACL surgery in February.  

Tre White had ACL surgery in mid-Dec and we’re just now looking at activating him.

 

No, we’re not going to sign OBJ and have him active for the Vikings game.  He’s not gonna be ready to be active until late Nov/mid Dec.

 

So we better sort it out with the guys we got now.

 

Wow,Really?   I never would have figured that out without you explaining it to me! Thanks!  

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Wow,Really?   I never would have figured that out without you explaining it to me! Thanks!  

 

Sorry I missed your sarcasm.  Nice work doubling down!

Edited November 7, 2022 by Beck Water

[Buffarukus]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm pretty sure on Josh's 2nd interception that he expected Shakir to do one thing based upon the defensive coverage and Shakir's body language, and Shakir did something else.   That's how it works; the slot has options, and if he and the QB aren't on the same page about the coverage and which option he chooses, there will be a pick.

 

People like to write as though Shakir is some miracle cure that the coaches and Josh don't trust because they're stupid, but in fact he's getting snaps and he's a good amount, either not open or not on the same page with Josh.  He's got 1 reception on 4 targets in the last 2 games.

 

And please, when reading this, keep in mind that I like Shakir, I expect him to eventually succeed and be a very good player for us.

 

what percentage is he in on when we are in 3 wide sets? i think your right but i think the team is being extremely strange at the way they are not allowing players to get any consistency in games. McKenzie in one play now shakir. no now mckenzie.  no we need a rb to split wide in the slot. pick the best player for the slot and let him play.

 

maybe im wrong but i thought the coaches created a similar mess with the rb situation until recently. we seemed to be just swapping rbs around almost randomly. alot of rbs need consistent reps to get going and even when we gashed teams on the ground we either randomly swapped out singletary just as he was hitting his stride or completely abandoned the run altogether even if the situation required us to run clock. now we needed a cook 2.0? he seems to be doing pretty good as a #2 and i dont even see him split wide for a rb who supposedly was selected for his phenomenal route running catching ability? O is having real issues. O line musical chairs we played almost game by game mult seasons. our D by contrast puts young guys out and that's it. lets em play. make mistakes. good/bad it will make them better when we need em most and let us know what we got.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Buffarukus

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, Buffarukus said:

what percentage is he in on when we are in 3 wide sets? i think your right but i think the team is being extremely strange at the way they are not allowing players to get any consistency in games. McKenzie in one play now shakir. no now mckenzie.  no we need a rb to split wide in the slot. pick the best player for the slot and let him play.

 

I can’t answer the question about what % in 3 WR sets - though I think we’re still in 11 personnel (3 WR set) about 70% overall.

 

The site @Mango linked for Gabe Davis says Shakir has lined up for 57 of his 111 snaps in the slot.

 

I can’t tell what effect it has on WR to swap in and out and I’m not gonna second guess the coaches or decide who is the best player for the slot.

[fan_in_tx]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

If someone doesn’t believe this is worthy of its own thread, feel free to merge. 
 

A lot of talk about the passing game and Allen/Dorsey. 
 

We have no move the chain passing game.   How many teams do you see out there, with functioning offenses, that don’t have a slot or tight end to move the chains?

 

Dorsey is calling games like Madden.  Deep shots or check downs to RB’s.  
 

Why?  Is Dorsey a 15 year old with an XBox?  Did Allen forget how to throw short/intermediate?  
 

(Hopefully) No and No.  I know this because Allen will throw chain movers to Diggs. 
 

The loss of a Cole Beasley type safety blanket looms large, it seems. 
 

Davis is a deep threat who has not shown a development into WR2 route tree capability.  
 

Knox has been blocking, a lot, and also has been going through the loss of his brother. 
 

Shakir is a rookie and they don’t trust him yet.  
 

McKenzie is not a full time slot WR.  Experiment failed. Halfway through the season.  Big enough sample size, and I’m of the impression Allen doesn’t trust him on hot/tight routes. 
 

Allen didn’t forget how to throw chain movers.  I don’t think Dorsey is an idiotic Madden play caller.  
 

We. Don’t. Have. The. Dudes.  
 

We weren’t coughing up picks for Claypool or Cooks, so we traded a pick for a RB that Beane talked about as a slot WR in his presser. 
 

Teams have keyed on Diggs and Davis. Bracket Diggs and put your CB1 on Davis.   They know we don’t have a running game that we’ll stick with, and nobody is currently worried about McKenzie, Knox, Shakir or a RB. 
 

We have a Jimmy’s and Joe’s problem right now more than an X’s and O’s one. 
 

"The loss of a Cole Beasley type safety blanket looms large, it seems."   Thought this all last week and this game as well, 

I didn't want to be the first to say it so thank you!

[CoudyBills]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm pretty sure on Josh's 2nd interception that he expected Shakir to do one thing based upon the defensive coverage and Shakir's body language, and Shakir did something else.   That's how it works; the slot has options, and if he and the QB aren't on the same page about the coverage and which option he chooses, there will be a pick.

 

People like to write as though Shakir is some miracle cure that the coaches and Josh don't trust because they're stupid, but in fact he's getting snaps and he's a good amount, either not open or not on the same page with Josh.  He's got 1 reception on 4 targets in the last 2 games.

 

And please, when reading this, keep in mind that I like Shakir, I expect him to eventually succeed and be a very good player for us.

The 2nd pick, to Gardner?  That receiver was Gabe Davis.  Davis and Cook were the only options to that side of the field.  Shakir had nothing to do with that interception.  Maybe I'm missing your point?

Edited November 7, 2022 by CoudyBills
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[JohninMinn.]

 Three thorns:

1) Singletary no speed

2) Edmunds no instinct

3)Oliver doesn't care.

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

Gabe Davis

 

Yeah that was pointed out and I acknowledged me bad up thread

[Buffarukus]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I can’t answer the question about what % in 3 WR sets - though I think we’re still in 11 personnel (3 WR set) about 70% overall.

 

The site @Mango linked for Gabe Davis says Shakir has lined up for 57 of his 111 snaps in the slot.

 

I can’t tell what effect it has on WR to swap in and out and I’m not gonna second guess the coaches or decide who is the best player for the slot.

 

eh was more rhetorical if anyone else thought the personnel swapping was a detriment to the offense and effecting the consistancy we are seeing a lack of from guys. people are saying McKenzie in for man and shakir for zone but its not like we put guys in knowing what defensive play they are going to play until we motion. if its about opponents tendency then we would see 1 guy in the whole game to counter the team or cb.

[CoudyBills]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah that was pointed out and I acknowledged me bad up thread

Oh, my bad.  Carry on sir

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

OBJ had ACL surgery in February.  

Tre White had ACL surgery in mid-Dec and we’re just now looking at activating him.

 

No, we’re not going to sign OBJ and have him active for the Vikings game.  He’s not gonna be ready to be active until late Nov/mid Dec.

 

So we better sort it out with the guys we got now.

Given the issues we are seeing with the receiving corps, I now believe we need to roll the dice and sign OBJ now. Get him in, studying the offense till he is ready for game time. Then, hopefully get him playing time in December to be ready for the playoffs. I don't care if we "overpay" him. He would be a bet which could pay off when teams scheme against us like the Jets did

Edited November 7, 2022 by Fan in Chicago

[Buffarukus]

3 hours ago, JohninMinn. said:

 Three thorns:

1) Singletary no speed

2) Edmunds no instinct

3)Oliver doesn't care.

 

singletary is pretty good. nothing elite but not many are. what he lacks in speed he makes up in broken tackles. not sure why he gets a bad rap by fans. 

 

i think edmunds is average. we can keep waiting on the ceiling but im tired of the excuses. he has a good line in front of him and it seems the same result. i think his pass coverage is better then people give credit for but he just cant make big plays in either.

 

not sure why you say this. guy litterally ran 30 yards down field to save a touchdown he had no buisness getting to. hes a very good dt imo and hope we extend him.  

 

[Dan]

I would suggest Mckenzie is not a suitable replacement for Beasley. We lost Crowder too for what that’s worth. 
 

[Gunsgoodtime]

I was not on this train until now.  Sign OBJ if he gets healthy.  We need him.

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

And what do we do if we don’t sign OBJ or OBJ isn’t OBJ….

 

The season can’t hinge on that.  
 

If we don’t have the guys to run the current offense, the offense needs to change. 

The problem is we as fans tend to think our playmakers are better then they are.  Outside of Diggs, we have no real threat.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

They paid Dawson Knox.

 

He’s giving you 3 catches for 25 yards a game so far.

 

Not sure why he can’t be used underneath at all.

 

All this focus on running back at the trade deadline, I don’t want the dump-off Chargers offense, but get McKenzie out of there because Allen needs some easier completions over the middle.

 

Need better play at RT.

 

Singletary needs a steady 12-15 carries a game. 
 

Have to do something with Gabe Davis, because he’s useless 2 of every 3 games.

[Coach Tuesday]

Yesterday it was abundantly clear that Allen misses the 2020 version of Cole Beasley.  Yesterday’s game would’ve been a vintage “Beasley Bailout” game.  They need to find Allen some answers when other teams are able to bring pressure from their front four and press/double Diggs and Davis and keep the safeties back to prevent deep shots.  The middle of the field is there for the taking but Allen doesn’t trust any of his outlet options for whatever reason.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Yesterday it was abundantly clear that Allen misses the 2020 version of Cole Beasley.  Yesterday’s game would’ve been a vintage “Beasley Bailout” game.  They need to find Allen some answers when other teams are able to bring pressure from their front four and press/double Diggs and Davis and keep the safeties back to prevent deep shots.  The middle of the field is there for the taking but Allen doesn’t trust any of his outlet options for whatever reason.

 

I see it as a lack of trust in his pass protection.  Josh has been known to hold onto the ball longer than other QBs and now needs to make quicker decisions than he'd like.  But yeah...it'd be nice if they had a dependable slot type who could be that safe option when he needs to get rid of it sooner.  

 

Goes back to the off-season and determining they wanted to be better running the ball, allocated resources to run type OL, then didn't add much in skill positions who stuck.    

 

What I'm seeing today is people questioning defensive strategy, which is typical after a loss like that.  At some point the offensive part should receive some scrutiny as well.  

[y2zipper]

19 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I see it as a lack of trust in his pass protection.  Josh has been known to hold onto the ball longer than other QBs and now needs to make quicker decisions than he'd like.  But yeah...it'd be nice if they had a dependable slot type who could be that safe option when he needs to get rid of it sooner.  

 

Goes back to the off-season and determining they wanted to be better running the ball, allocated resources to run type OL, then didn't add much in skill positions who stuck.    

 

What I'm seeing today is people questioning defensive strategy, which is typical after a loss like that.  At some point the offensive part should receive some scrutiny as well.  

 

We are basically in the middle of the game and a half of really bad quarterback play, And looking at the wins and losses buffalo is over two and division games on the road. Those are the type of games that brew websites when every team in the division is relatively good, but given the conference standings in the head to head wins Buffalo has you don't want to make that deposit this early.

 

I hope it's a blip, And I think that when people watch game tape, they're going to see underneath the routes open that Josh isn't taking. It needs to throw those, he needs to make better decisions and he needs to get the snap to throw time a little bit lower, especially at the beginning of games. When the past protection isn't working as well, The ball has to get out faster. 

 

They're definitely some macro level issues with the team and their weaknesses here, And yesterday was sort of the first time it cost them a game:

 

A defense I think the issue is health. Waht I see what I watched the younger secondary players is that the difference between when the defense is healthy and when it's not is tackling.

 

The pass blocking and the offensive line in general have definitely regressed from last year. This is definitely a weakness in management because we seem to be on the third consecutive year and second offensive line Coach of guards and run blocking in general just not working.

 

The offense is just way too slappy with the ball. The average is two turnovers a game and has way too many giveaways. Buffalo has the fourth most turnovers in the league. I think the turnover issue is the thing they have to fix first.