Can we talk about how 2 teams in a row ran it down our throat...

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

No Milano…who do you add as your extra lb?

[Ralonzo]

5 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I agree about J. Johnson looking like a liability, but Edmunds was literally all over the field once again today. 

 

Even if they decided to keep Edmunds or Oliver based on this season, Knox already has the money. Unless someone negotiates an uncapped year and everything rolls into that, this is probably it for both.

[Norcalbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

you said:

 

Offense scores and goes up early forcing teams to abandon the run, and make qbs like wilson/ tannehill beat you with his arm.

 

the Bills scored to make it 14-3.  The Jets, who had very little going on offense to that point, marched 75 yards to make It 14-10, with only 12 of those 75 yards coming on the ground. 

And proceeded to score running the ball, and yes 75 passing yards on quick passes like I stated. Grind the clock running the ball and quick 1st read passes for wilson, no progressions just get it out quick and eat up the clock with running. I guess we disagree on what's considered "goes up early" but i see what you mean 14-3 can be considered up early in some games but I didn't feel like the momentum for either team was that the Bills were up early and I don't think for a second today the jets felt like they were down and had to abandon their game plan and ask wilson to read coverages and make big plays with his arm.

[QCity]

But hey Edmunds had 11 tackles so that's a good game for him. Have to wait for the A22 but that should be a B- from Joe B. at least.

[popcornpam]

5 hours ago, jkeerie said:

Even McD in his presser said we need to look at our run defense.  

His seat should be burning. He didn’t make any adjustments. Why don’t we mix it up on defense?

[JerseyBills]

McDermott said after the gm that they have to reassess the run D

Finally.  Been our biggest weakness for 3 years

[HappyDays]

You have to understand we went all in on a defense that can stop the pass. We left ourselves vulnerable to run heavy offenses as an intentional choice because we decided to just become really good at stopping the thing that matters more in the modern NFL. But that concept only works when our offense holds up their end of the bargain. When a team down three scores runs the ball at will against you like the Packers did, you laugh all the way down to 00:00. When the Jets do it in a tight game it becomes a problem. This team is built to get a big lead from the offense and then let the defense tee off on what it does well. The defensive problems today and even last week to an extent stem from the offense letting our opponent stay in the game. We're capable of scoring at will when everything is clicking. The offense is what needs to change right now, not the entire defensive philosophy.

[DrPJax]

6 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Start Dodson and sit Edmunds to make a statement on physicality. J Johnson should never see a field again. And this team needs to stop playing Nickel on over play regardless of situation.

I do think Johnson has played below avg with poor tackling , bad Angles of support , and I’m not sure he is more than a backup. But get prepared as I keep hearing from guys who have posted credibly in the past , that Poyer  may be done (also I posted before that his “ pop” may be a biceps tear that requires surgery ending his year  , but time will tell.  This coupled with Josh grabbing  his elbow , which the sports injury channel did mention as a worry for ulnar collateral ligament damage vs triceps strain watching Josh short hop a throw and grab his hand  because the ulnar nerve travels under that ligament and supplies the outer hand. This could be an additional season threatening comcern.  He did have one good deep throw after that so finger crossed! ), so not sure how we manage sitting Johnson as Marlowe subbed for Hyde before.  I do really agree with your frustration  about Frazier rarely coming out of his nickel or rarely sending pressure , even against a very inexperienced Qb in Wilson.  Yes we held them to a fg , but YES THEY WON BY THAT FG! 
 

I think the d line was getting owned today with the run game and Edmunds keeps getting asked to cover guys with his back to the Los many times , but it’s a fair point Dodson seems better against the run. I just hate thinking Edmunds is rarely used to rush by Frazier and he seems good when asked to rush;  he might be lost to Cap issues and some team may use him properly and he could turn out to really blossom for another team making it harder to take.after years of watch him not reach his expected potential. 
Would have been interesting to see Dodson as a third Lb out there on that 90 plus yard fg drive Frazier watched the Jets pound down their throats , and see if Frazier could have forced Wilson to make some plays.  
 

Neither coordinator adjusted well today and it’s another one of those losses that really should never happen. . It’s one thing to lose to a mature team like KC , but losing to rebuilding teams ( Miami with a rookie coach , Jets plugging in rookies and a 2 nd year coach ) is inexcuseable and it does make you question if the Bills can finally ever remain consistent.   You expect a little more when the staff has been together so long now. 

[DrPJax]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

McDermott said after the gm that they have to reassess the run D

Finally.  Been our biggest weakness for 3 years

More platitudes!  When will he have Frazier actually get out of the nickel and generate consistent pressure?  For all the hype about  this d line,  look how many sacks the Dallas d has in comparison!  Mcd is great for this franchise as he has great chemistry w Beane.and should have a long tenure I hope.  My issue is he waits until after unnecessary losses before he addresses the coordinators, even after warning issues arose during the G B game. The offensive game plan was predictable again in many ways, with McD saying it was one dimensional!  Dorsey néeds to step it up.  For example,  the fins / 49 ers used their new rbs right away yet we use Hines almost only  on special teams and just one play in the offense for a veteran?  That’s unimaginative game planning imo. Being  0-2 in the division is a step back and this is fairly concerning given this is a veteran club in its Super bowl window.
 Something is just not clicking at times ,  as even Von kept stating he didn’t play all that well. It is  concerning to hear von and Daquan ( sp) both say the jets ran similar run plays that Green Bay ran and they expected that and still couldn’t stop them.  That does seem like a coaching / coordinator,issue or perhaps the players just take some teams lightly despite the coaches efforts ?  !    Losing divisional games when that’s step one to the playoffs is a thing  you would hope gets seriously addressed as the margin for more losses is disappearing if we want an edge in the playoffs with home field as was preached all off season. 
 

     Dorsey’s inexperience may becoming more apparent compared to Dabolls years as this O now has looked lost the past two games when they were challenged after half time. Hey , are we headed back to having to be concerned when in a tight game ? I hope not. We didn’t look good today at any point in the second half and it was almost predictable to see that 90 yard plus long drive before it happened resulting in the game winning FG.    It’s the little things often with this team , missing a fg, kicking it oob, penalties at the worst time  in a game where the refs were letting them play for the most part, giving up 5 sacks and one at the end easily could  have resulted in a Josh injury.   It just seems like this team commits quite a few mental errors and they can’t expect to do that and be successful come playoff time. 
Just hoped we had learned from last year, but this remains to be seen.  ( Another example ,  not wanting to be too critical of Bass , yet  even tasker said missing that fg before half was a costly error and just another time we are allowing teams to stay in the game.) Can’t miss those and we have had a few  shaky moments in the kicking game this year. I wonder if the late  change of punter / holder is the issue ?  Seems hard to feel as  confident with Bass this year as in the past.  We continue leaving points out there at times that I hope doesn’t become a trend and  play a role in future game !  I hope Mcd doesn’t keep experiencing losses against teams with less talent or our shot at the Lombardi may  be even  more difficult than  expected given our expectations with our talented roster. 

 

Josh stating he will work thru “.mild “:elbow pain is an additional worry over the next 24-48 hours.  He hopefully avoided injury to the ulnar collateral ligament in his elbow.  He is still under the effect of adrenaline during the post game period and it’s possible this could stiffen or the pain could worsen overnight as cortisol levels drop overnight ( that’s why fevers , aches and pains often worsen during the night before cortisol rises in the am as we wake up )   Hope he is truly ok.  We have enough injuries, certainly missing Po and Milano really was evident today;  losing Josh for any period we all know would be a disaster.   Well, let’s hope Mcd actually gets this team back on track for next week and fixes the run d issues that teams will continue to exploit otherwise.  Vikes with Cook will be a big  challenge , especially if Josh continues his unusual subpar play; we aren’t good enough to keep losing possessions with ints!  

[Alphadawg7]

Edmunds was again all over the field, and people just blindly blaming him when he was not even the issue.  Its like people don't even watch the games, they just come out and say we lost because of Edmunds by default.  

 

Our defense was literally missing 4 of its absolute best players, and amongst the best in the NFL in Hyde, Poyer, Milano, and Tre.  Then we had our first round pick get hurt and miss part of the game too.  And we gave up just 20 points.  Just like last week, people were freaking out about the D despite winning by 10 points.  

 

The issue was the offense in the 2nd half against the Packers and the 2nd half against the Jets.  Our offense was only missing Brown on the OL but it got shut down in the 2nd half in back to back weeks.  Both weeks we were also playing 2 of the best secondaries in the NFL right now, not to mention Jets have a nasty front 7.  

 

The defense won the 2nd half battles in both games and we went 1 - 1 in those 2 games.  This is the first mini slump for the offense under Dorsey, and now we need to see how he adjusts.  We also didn't do ourselves any favors yesterday by dropping passes, Josh having some errant passes, ill timed holding penalties, Bass missing his FG, etc.  

 

I think its premature to hit the panic button.  Our defense is not healthy, so I am less worried about it.  But Dorsey needs to make adjustments to get the rhythm back on offense and start creating ways to get guys open.  Davis is struggling right now, he is dropping too many passes and not getting open enough.  They need to start scheming to get him some rhythm and confidence back as well as start utilizing our other weapons more like Knox, Shakir, and our RB's more to help take pressure off Diggs and Davis too.  

[Gunsgoodtime]

10 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Start Dodson and sit Edmunds to make a statement on physicality. J Johnson should never see a field again. And this team needs to stop playing Nickel on over play regardless of situation.

Edmunds might have been one of our best defensive players in this game, guy was all over the place making plays.  I dont understand the Edmunds hate, it is unwarranted 

[Gunsgoodtime]

10 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Despite my previous sarcastic comment, the defense was not the problem tonight. It was the offense. Mainly the QB.

You can add WR to that as well.  Im not sure we got 1 outside of diggs.  That contributed th the QB problem 

10 hours ago, 97bills said:

Lol yea 8 yards down the field. Look I’m not a edmunds hater, but the guy isn’t good at run support. 

Dude had tons of tackles taking away yards, if you watched that game and came away as Edmunds was a problem, yes, you are a Edmunds hater

[BananaB]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Edmunds was again all over the field, and people just blindly blaming him when he was not even the issue.  Its like people don't even watch the games, they just come out and say we lost because of Edmunds by default.  

 

Our defense was literally missing 4 of its absolute best players, and amongst the best in the NFL in Hyde, Poyer, Milano, and Tre.  Then we had our first round pick get hurt and miss part of the game too.  And we gave up just 20 points.  Just like last week, people were freaking out about the D despite winning by 10 points.  

 

The issue was the offense in the 2nd half against the Packers and the 2nd half against the Jets.  Our offense was only missing Brown on the OL but it got shut down in the 2nd half in back to back weeks.  Both weeks we were also playing 2 of the best secondaries in the NFL right now, not to mention Jets have a nasty front 7.  

 

The defense won the 2nd half battles in both games and we went 1 - 1 in those 2 games.  This is the first mini slump for the offense under Dorsey, and now we need to see how he adjusts.  We also didn't do ourselves any favors yesterday by dropping passes, Josh having some errant passes, ill timed holding penalties, Bass missing his FG, etc.  

 

I think its premature to hit the panic button.  Our defense is not healthy, so I am less worried about it.  But Dorsey needs to make adjustments to get the rhythm back on offense and start creating ways to get guys open.  Davis is struggling right now, he is dropping too many passes and not getting open enough.  They need to start scheming to get him some rhythm and confidence back as well as start utilizing our other weapons more like Knox, Shakir, and our RB's more to help take pressure off Diggs and Davis too.  

It’s not about the 20 points it’s the long sustained drives and 20 points. The Jets got the ball on their 4 and walked down the field to our 5 passing the ball once. That’s when the game was on the line. Before half and after half was alot of the same thing, our O was sitting on the bench for what seemed like forever. sure guys are out but Leslie and Sean gotta adjust instead of watching the d get manhandled. If these long drives are ending in points, what’s the big worry in giving up chunk plays? Atleast thst gets our O back on the field and helps them find a rhythm. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by BananaB

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, BananaB said:

It’s not about the 20 points it’s the long sustained drives and 20 points. The Jets got the ball on their 4 and walked down the field to our 5 passing the ball once. That’s when the game was on the line. Before half and after half was alot of the same thing, our O was sitting on the bench for what seemed like forever. sure guys are out but Leslie and Sean gotta adjust instead of watching the d get manhandled. If these long drives are ending in points, what’s the big worry in giving up chunk plays? Atleast thst gets our O back on the field and helps them find a rhythm. 

 

We were missing 40% of our starting defense, of which are amongst the best in the NFL at their respective positions.  That is not just something you easily patch up like no big deal.  You don't take all pro caliber players off the field and replace them with backups and just assume "next man up" can do the same job the all pros were.  

 

If we lost Diggs on offense and had to start Kumerow, it would be insane to expect the same performance.  Why people think plug and play is so easy on defense is puzzling to me.  

 

So for me, I am less concerned about about the defense which is not healthy right now compared to our mostly healthy offense struggling. And outside of 2 halves of football (2nd half GB and 2nd half Jets), Bills run D has been excellent the rest of the season.  So I am not going to panic over 2 halves of football with a severely injured Defense.  

 

And more importantly, in those same 2 halves, it was our offense that was sputtering and kept forcing the defense back on the field thanks to some turnovers and unsustained drives.  

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

We were missing 40% of our starting defense, of which are amongst the best in the NFL at their respective positions.  That is not just something you easily patch up like no big deal.  You don't take all pro caliber players off the field and replace them with backups and just assume "next man up" can do the same job the all pros were.  

 

If we lost Diggs on offense and had to start Kumerow, it would be insane to expect the same performance.  Why people think plug and play is so easy on defense is puzzling to me.  

 

So for me, I am less concerned about about the defense which is not healthy right now compared to our mostly healthy offense struggling. And outside of 2 halves of football (2nd half GB and 2nd half Jets), Bills run D has been excellent the rest of the season.  So I am not going to panic over 2 halves of football with a severely injured Defense.  

 

And more importantly, in those same 2 halves, it was our offense that was sputtering and kept forcing the defense back on the field thanks to some turnovers and unsustained drives.  

We were getting pushed around by heavy set offences and we continued to trot 5 dbs on the field. Despite the injuries the defensive scheme was a huge part of the problem. 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

We were missing 40% of our starting defense, of which are amongst the best in the NFL at their respective positions.  That is not just something you easily patch up like no big deal.  You don't take all pro caliber players off the field and replace them with backups and just assume "next man up" can do the same job the all pros were.  

 

If we lost Diggs on offense and had to start Kumerow, it would be insane to expect the same performance.  Why people think plug and play is so easy on defense is puzzling to me.  

 

So for me, I am less concerned about about the defense which is not healthy right now compared to our mostly healthy offense struggling. And outside of 2 halves of football (2nd half GB and 2nd half Jets), Bills run D has been excellent the rest of the season.  So I am not going to panic over 2 halves of football with a severely injured Defense.  

 

And more importantly, in those same 2 halves, it was our offense that was sputtering and kept forcing the defense back on the field thanks to some turnovers and unsustained drives.  

 

While I agree with this totally, my worry yesterday (and to an extent last week) is that the very expensively assembled defensive line has been pushed about. It was a philosophical choice from Brandon Beane to spend is FA dollars on the defensive front rather than the offensive line and/or receiving corps. Through the first 6 games it was hard to argue with that approach because even through some injuries the line had played really well. I'm not saying the last two weeks proves that it was a wrong decision, but they have to get back to form. Yesterday I thought all 4 defensive tackles had relatively poor games. 

 

5 minutes ago, BananaB said:

We were getting pushed around by heavy set offences and we continued to trot 5 dbs on the field. Despite the injuries the defensive scheme was a huge part of the problem. 

 

There were 5 defensive backs on the field, yes, but they were essentially in 4-3 alignment a lot. Taron was basically playing as a linebacker. So unless you think Taron getting taken out of plays was a big part of the problem (maybe it was I'd have to watch it back) then I think the personnel thing is a bit of a red herring. Because literally it would just be Dodson standing in the same place as Taron. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by GunnerBill

[BananaB]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

While I agree with this totally, my worry yesterday (and to an extent last week) is that the very expensively assembled defensive line has been pushed about. It was a philosophical choice from Brandon Beane to spend is FA dollars on the defensive front rather than the offensive line and/or receiving corps. Through the first 6 games it was hard to argue with that approach because even through some injuries the line had played really well. I'm not saying the last two weeks proves that it was a wrong decision, but they have to get back to form. Yesterday I thought all 4 defensive tackles had relatively poor games. 

 

 

There were 5 defensive backs on the field, yes, but they were essentially in 4-3 alignment a lot. Taron was basically playing as a linebacker. So unless you think Taron getting taken out of plays was a big part of the problem (maybe it was I'd have to watch it back) then I think the personnel thing is a bit of a red herring. Because literally it would just be Dodson standing in the same place as Taron. 

I bet you Dodson can shed a block and be more effective stopping a power run game then Taron…. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BananaB said:

I bet you Dodson can shed a block and be more effective stopping a power run game then Taron…. 

 

Possibly. But are we sure that Taron failing to do that was a big reason for the run game struggles? I'm not saying it definitely wasn't yesterday but I can tell you it wasn't against the Packers because I have watched the all22 of that game. The problem against the Packers was tackling at the point of attack. First man not getting the job done often enough. We weren't struggling to get off blocks so much as we were struggling to get the runners down. 

 

Simply from the TV broadcast yesterday it looked like our problems started up front and the interior defensive line in particular. I reserve the right to change my mind when I watch that back, but I felt like we lost up front too often yesterday. 

[Alphadawg7]

30 minutes ago, BananaB said:

We were getting pushed around by heavy set offences and we continued to trot 5 dbs on the field. Despite the injuries the defensive scheme was a huge part of the problem. 

I don’t disagree with that, but I think you are over looking the impact of the missing personnel on the defensive scheme.  
 

 

[BananaB]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Possibly. But are we sure that Taron failing to do that was a big reason for the run game struggles? I'm not saying it definitely wasn't yesterday but I can tell you it wasn't against the Packers because I have watched the all22 of that game. The problem against the Packers was tackling at the point of attack. First man not getting the job done often enough. We weren't struggling to get off blocks so much as we were struggling to get the runners down. 

 

Simply from the TV broadcast yesterday it looked like our problems started up front and the interior defensive line in particular. I reserve the right to change my mind when I watch that back, but I felt like we lost up front too often yesterday. 

Man we are getting overpowered in the nickel every year and these coaches sit back like adding a LBer for extra help will kill our defense. 

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I don’t disagree with that, but I think you are over looking the impact of the missing personnel on the defensive scheme.  
 

 

This is a yearly thing for the Bills. When the O struggles teams are content just pounding the rock on us. I