NFL Week #9 - 11/6/2022 - The Bills at the (NJ) Jets - Post Game thread

[boyst]

per WGR no team has ever won the super bowl and lost to the Jets in a season.

[billybob71]

I feel Bills could have really used Crowder yesterday, a veteran slot guy who can get open and make some critical catches. Maybe Hines can be that soon

[Beck Water]

29 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Bills in control of game 14-3, 6 min to go in the half. Then…

 

NYJ TD to end the 2nd quarter. 
 

NYJ TD to start the 3rd quarter. 
 

NYJ FG near the end of the 4th quarter. 
 

Ballgame. 

 

You do know the end of the 2Q was a missed FG by the Bills

 

And the start of the 3Q was a long drive ending with a fumble in the red zone for the Jets?

 

Not to interrupt the narrative like the Jets had it all their way or something

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Silver lining is as much as this loss hurt, im somewhat glad this double diggs and single cover Davis with cb1 got thrown at us early in the regular season 

 

not a lot of teams have the personnel to do it(chiefs,dolphins don’t) but it’s clearly something we have to gameplan for against certain opponents.  Gabe is just not making plays 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, boyst said:

per WGR no team has ever won the super bowl and lost to the Jets in a season.

 

Well I guess we might as well pack it in, then

 

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Silver lining is as much as this loss hurt, im somewhat glad this double diggs and single cover Davis with cb1 got thrown at us early in the regular season 

 

not a lot of teams have the personnel to do it(chiefs,dolphins) but it’s clearly something we have to gameplan for against certain opponents.  Gabe is just not making plays 

 

Isn't that what Green Bay did, at least at times?  

 

In his presser, Diggs said in the 2nd half the Jets switched from man coverage to 2 high safety zone.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Beck Water

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Well I guess we might as well pack it in, then

 

 

Isn't that what Green Bay did, at least at times?  

 

In his presser, Diggs said in the 2nd half the Jets switched from man coverage to 2 high safety zone.

Ah did they?  Didn’t catch that I was too nervous haha I was paying better attention early in the game yea gb did some of it too they also have a good pass defense (but nothing else lol)

[colin]

11 hours ago, Mango said:

 

I keep coming back to the fact that Allen said he didn’t do anything but rest and recover this offseason.
 

With the benefit of hindsight, Allen hasn’t just had two bad games. He’s certainly looked bad. The guy recently reinvented and retooled his natural throwing motion. Not hugely surprising the whole system looks wonky midway through the season. 
 

I know in my sport it would take years to make the smallest adjustments permanent and applicable under both physical and mental pressure. I couldn’t imagine not doing anything to reinforce that between world championship seasons.  

 

that stood out to me as well.

 

tbh, i think allen was sorta blagging and bragging about bout how he's such a stud he doesn't even need to practice type of vibe, but that he does do some work.  

 

i think allen's issue his whole career is when he gets mentally too excited, or scared, or whatever that takes him off of his game, he reverts to bad habbits -- bad feet, looking guys down, over throwing short and under throwing long, just being off in small amounts.  he can put the ball on the ground too, but hasn't as much lately, and even when he's up against a wall and stressed out, his running is great always.

 

bottom line -- our d has been beat to sheet, and they still do at least OK in terms of points and TDs, our O has been healthy for the most part and ha had a few really bad quarters.  we need to get more production out of guys not named diggs ro allen, and we need to be much much better w the football.

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, colin said:

that stood out to me as well.

 

I think it's misquoting what Allen actually said.   I don't think Allen said he "did nothing but rest and recover" this offseason.  I think he said he worked out *less* and came in beating all his metrics (strength, agility, speed).

 

If he did say "I did nothing this off season but rest and recover", I'd like to know when and where that was said.

 

I believe both Diggs and Knox have talked about going to Cali to throw with Josh.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Beck Water

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, colin said:

 

that stood out to me as well.

 

tbh, i think allen was sorta blagging and bragging about bout how he's such a stud he doesn't even need to practice type of vibe, but that he does do some work.  

 

i think allen's issue his whole career is when he gets mentally too excited, or scared, or whatever that takes him off of his game, he reverts to bad habbits -- bad feet, looking guys down, over throwing short and under throwing long, just being off in small amounts.  he can put the ball on the ground too, but hasn't as much lately, and even when he's up against a wall and stressed out, his running is great always.

 

bottom line -- our d has been beat to sheet, and they still do at least OK in terms of points and TDs, our O has been healthy for the most part and ha had a few really bad quarters.  we need to get more production out of guys not named diggs ro allen, and we need to be much much better w the football.

 

I agree, he certainly has a tendency to let things get away from him, which I think is why taking an offseason off is actually a bigger risk for him. 

 

Also agreed we need more production from "not Diggs" but ultimately we were spreading the ball around in the first few weeks, and now we aren't. I don't think Davis, Knox, McKenzie (OK maybe a little McK),etc. I think as Josh starts to sort of grip tighter and push for the big play he is locking on to Diggs far too often when there are other plays to be made. 

I am not any sort of football savant, but I do think that Davis garnering CB1 attention the last two weeks is telling as to what other teams think of him and the offense. I like Diggs and his ability to run routes, get open, etc. But he isn't dangerous with the ball in his hands and he isn't a big physical "open when he is covered" kind of receiver. Curious if teams are letting Diggs feast and forcing Josh into being totally one dimensional in the pass game. 

[EffKCChiefs]

1 hour ago, Casey D said:

God this place is miserable.  20 years ago this place was like group therapy, everyone picking each other up.  Now it is just a bunch of folks whining about how terrible everything is because of a tough road loss.  Who did not think this team would have Jax 2021 type games this year?  It just happens.  All athletes have subpar days.  Get an effing grip.

 

I understand emotions overrun people after a loss like that.  I've lived through 50 years of them.  6-2 and top seed in the AFC is still good.  It won't be a cakewalk, but I never thought it would be.  On to Minnesota.  And cheer up for God's sake, this is supposed to be fun.

Thank you! We've got two home games in a row to get right. 

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, colin said:

bottom line -- our d has been beat to sheet, and they still do at least OK in terms of points and TDs, our O has been healthy for the most part and ha had a few really bad quarters.  we need to get more production out of guys not named diggs ro allen, and we need to be much much better w the football.

 

That seems like what our D thinks: "Oh, we kept them to 20 points, so that's OK - doesn't matter that we gave up 208 or 174 rushing yards and let them hang on to the ball 5 1/2 minutes more than we did and grind out clock and yards, we did our job 'cuz POINTS."

[Mango]

36 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

The last 6 quarters.... 

 

Josh Allen

24-of-48 for 261 yards 0 TDs 4 INTs

 

Drives (going back to halftime of the GB game)

FG

INT

INT

PUNT

INT

TD

PUNT

TD

Miss FG

INT

FG

PUNT

Turnover on downs

 

Everybody talks about how there has "never been a player like Josh Allen". But then you look at this stretch....

The dude is just a bigger Brett Favre. We will likely have to ride this roller coaster his entire career. It will be super frustrating at times and we will love it at times. 

[newcam2012]

18 minutes ago, billybob71 said:

I feel Bills could have really used Crowder yesterday, a veteran slot guy who can get open and make some critical catches. Maybe Hines can be that soon

Crowder isn't a differrence maker. There are tons of Crowders in the league. Bills need a Beasley type receiver. Right now, the Bills slot guys have been under used and have under preformed. Just has no reliable safety valve to go to on crucial 3rd down plays. Diggs is the only one but the Bills need more weapons. Thus, Allen locks onto Diggs and forces the ball into him. Mentioned with success but as you play tougher defenses this isn't sustainable. The Bills offense is out of sorts and becoming too predictable. Changes and adjustments need to be made swiftly. Can The core issues be fixed or modified for success? The core issues for me is the Oline and wide receivers. Can the Oline open up holes in the run game? Can the Bills and Allen make teams pay for blitzing Allen? Can they protect him? What wide receivers are going to step up? How long does Allen play like Shi???

[Fan in Chicago]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That seems like what our D thinks: "Oh, we kept them to 20 points, so that's OK - doesn't matter that we gave up 208 or 174 rushing yards and let them hang on to the ball 5 1/2 minutes more than we did and grind out clock and yards, we did our job 'cuz POINTS."

D has to button up the run D as it has been exposed since the second half of the GB game. I think its more a problem with not adjusting the scheme and who is on the field at the right times. 

 

But be that as it may, holding an opponent to under 20 points should technically be more than adequate against a O led team like the Bills. If the O was able to sustain drives and end in scores, the opposing team is much more limited in its grind and pound options (basic complementary football).

 

This loss is clearly on Allen (esp the two brutal interceptions) and the O in general. His multiple INT games are bothering me. He should do a whole lot better in protecting the ball. 

[Andrew Son]

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Everybody talks about how there has "never been a player like Josh Allen". But then you look at this stretch....

The dude is just a bigger Brett Favre. We will likely have to ride this roller coaster his entire career. It will be super frustrating at times and we will love it at times. 

Early in the year I thought I was watching Peyton Manning.  Josh was completely in control and running the offense.  Taking the plays that were there and playing on time.

 

I thought we were past all this crap, but here we are again.  I don't need to see any more hurdles or backyard football.  Just run the ***** offense and take care of the ball.

[Greg S]

Probably had to piss the Jets off seeing so much blue in the stands. To me it looked and sounded 50-50. In my section there was more blue than green. I think the Bills bring in the most visiting fans to MetLife. 

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

D has to button up the run D as it has been exposed since the second half of the GB game. I think its more a problem with not adjusting the scheme and who is on the field at the right times. 

 

But be that as it may, holding an opponent to under 20 points should technically be more than adequate against a O led team like the Bills. If the O was able to sustain drives and end in scores, the opposing team is much more limited in its grind and pound options (basic complementary football).

 

This loss is clearly on Allen (esp the two brutal interceptions) and the O in general. His multiple INT games are bothering me. He should do a whole lot better in protecting the ball. 

 

Interceptions/turnovers have been a problem all year. Bills got away with it against the Rams in week 1 and they've thrown multiple picks and gotten away with it against other teams - the Ravens, the Steelers, last week against GB.  I think winning may have muted it from becoming a "red alert what the F are you thinking?" concern.

 

You say "should be technically more than adequate against an O led team like the Bills".  I don't agree.  The D has gotten the lion's share of high draft picks and FA dollars.  "To whom much is given, much is expected".   At least by me.  Sorry, if the Bills are getting gashed for 208 and 175 yds on the ground in successive weeks and allowing the other team to control the clock for large swaths of the game, they aren't "doing their job".

 

Meanwhile we have under-invested in WR and OL.  McDermott pisses and moans about lack of a run game, but we've invested 3 first 3 round picks on OL (and 1 was a bust)- Dawkins, Ford, Brown - and signed 1 first or second tier OL FA since 2017 - Morse.  Maybe if we had a better OL, Josh wouldn't be feeling as much pressure and would have that extra fraction of a second to see the field and to set and make accurate throws.   Also maybe the 3 first-3-round picks invested at RB would be better able to make some yards. 

 

Oh, and 1 first 3 round pick at WR - and he too was a bust while here (Zay Jones)

 

Meanwhile we've put 7 first-3-round picks on the defensive front 7 - 3 of them 1st round- and 2 1st round picks at CB, PLUS the big FA $$ on DL.

 

If we're an O-led team, or want to be an O-led team, maybe we need to invest more on offense.

[Fan in Chicago]

42 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Interceptions/turnovers have been a problem all year. Bills got away with it against the Rams in week 1 and they've thrown multiple picks and gotten away with it against other teams - the Ravens, the Steelers, last week against GB.  I think winning may have muted it from becoming a "red alert what the F are you thinking?" concern.

 

You say "should be technically more than adequate against an O led team like the Bills".  I don't agree.  The D has gotten the lion's share of high draft picks and FA dollars.  "To whom much is given, much is expected".   At least by me.  Sorry, if the Bills are getting gashed for 208 and 175 yds on the ground in successive weeks and allowing the other team to control the clock for large swaths of the game, they aren't "doing their job".

 

Meanwhile we have under-invested in WR and OL.  McDermott pisses and moans about lack of a run game, but we've invested 3 first 3 round picks on OL (and 1 was a bust)- Dawkins, Ford, Brown - and signed 1 first or second tier OL FA since 2017 - Morse.  Maybe if we had a better OL, Josh wouldn't be feeling as much pressure and would have that extra fraction of a second to see the field and to set and make accurate throws.   Also maybe the 3 first-3-round picks invested at RB would be better able to make some yards. 

 

Oh, and 1 first 3 round pick at WR - and he too was a bust while here (Zay Jones)

 

Meanwhile we've put 7 first-3-round picks on the defensive front 7 - 3 of them 1st round- and 2 1st round picks at CB, PLUS the big FA $$ on DL.

 

If we're an O-led team, or want to be an O-led team, maybe we need to invest more on offense.

I agree pretty much your entire post - Beane said recently that "tackles dont grow on trees" and I contend that neither do good Guards and Centers. That should not have been a big revelation and exactly why these positions need to be drafted in the first 3 rounds. So, I am fully on board with the consternation regarding non-attention to OL 

 

I differ with your view in the bolded above - holding opponents to under 20 should be enough. We do need to stop them from controlling clock with a ground game. I am shocked at what we saw in the last 6 quarters - this was a problem last year and the reason why we invested in the DT positions over the off-season. And yet, we are as susceptible as last year. My (unpopular) opinion is that I think Frazier is not the right coach for flexibility and scheming when facing a strong OL and run game. If, with his experience, he has shown an inability to use the vast resources provided to him to stop offenses at the right time. 

 

Back to the O, we have to cut down on the turnovers and bench some underwhelming performers. I said in another thread that, after yesterday's game, am convinced we need to get OBJ now. Let him heal, learn and come up to speed for the games in late December onwards. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Fan in Chicago

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

42 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Interceptions/turnovers have been a problem all year. Bills got away with it against the Rams in week 1 and they've thrown multiple picks and gotten away with it against other teams - the Ravens, the Steelers, last week against GB.  I think winning may have muted it from becoming a "red alert what the F are you thinking?" concern.

 

You say "should be technically more than adequate against an O led team like the Bills".  I don't agree.  The D has gotten the lion's share of high draft picks and FA dollars.  "To whom much is given, much is expected".   At least by me.  Sorry, if the Bills are getting gashed for 208 and 175 yds on the ground in successive weeks and allowing the other team to control the clock for large swaths of the game, they aren't "doing their job".

 

Meanwhile we have under-invested in WR and OL.  McDermott pisses and moans about lack of a run game, but we've invested 3 first 3 round picks on OL (and 1 was a bust)- Dawkins, Ford, Brown - and signed 1 first or second tier OL FA since 2017 - Morse.  Maybe if we had a better OL, Josh wouldn't be feeling as much pressure and would have that extra fraction of a second to see the field and to set and make accurate throws.   Also maybe the 3 first-3-round picks invested at RB would be better able to make some yards. 

 

Oh, and 1 first 3 round pick at WR - and he too was a bust while here (Zay Jones)

 

Meanwhile we've put 7 first-3-round picks on the defensive front 7 - 3 of them 1st round- and 2 1st round picks at CB, PLUS the big FA $$ on DL.

 

If we're an O-led team, or want to be an O-led team, maybe we need to invest more on offense.

 

Exactly. Which is why I think McDermott and Beane, while having successfully resurrected the franchise, may not be able to take it all the way. They just don't seem to know or care about offense.

 

[BillsFan4]

https://theathletic.com/3770085/2022/11/07/seven-observations-bills-jets/
 

Joe Buscaglia perfectly describes the reasons they lost.

 

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1. What’s wrong with Josh Allen? Concerns over both his play and elbow
 

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2. The 2022 Jets channeled the 2021 Jaguars’ game plan

 

…Even in the Bills’ Week 8 victory over the Packers, there were some warning signs of what was to come. The Bills’ offense wasn’t the efficient and high-powered unit that could fly by any team, and the run defense showed some curious signals of weakness. They were able to get away with a win over a flawed Packers team, but the Jets were armed with more information and did one better. They flipped their tendencies on defense to follow a similar game plan that gave the Bills’ offense trouble last season while also taking a page out of the Packers’ book…

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3. A subtle hint to Dorsey? McDermott plays the “one-dimensional” card once again

It’s a tale as old as time with the Bills under McDermott, especially since Allen has unearthed himself as one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. An opposing defense one week finds success with a game plan based around the two-high shell look, and the Bills attempt to throw their way out of it…

…This is not the first time this season that McDermott has said as much after a game, and he did it often during the midseason problems the Bills offense faced in 2021 as well. To him, and there is merit to it because of how well it worked late last season, the Bills are at their best when they can establish the run with their backs…

 

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4. The third WR spot is a legitimate liability

 

Although McDermott will likely look to the ground game as a fix, the uncomfortable truth for the Bills is that their receiver room isn’t anywhere close to the strength that it was this summer and earlier this season. Many will focus on the Gabe Davis missed catch opportunity on fourth down and lacking statistics, but he still provides a lot of value to the offense even without catching the ball — namely, freeing up Stefon Diggs for the most part. The true weakness is with their third receiver, specifically with how much it limits them when operating out of 11 personnel…

 

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5. The run defense lull is in full swing as the Jets hodgepodged 2021 Jaguars’ defensive plan with 2022 Packers’ rushing scheme

…The Jets offensive coordinator is Mike LaFleur, none other than the younger brother of Packers head coach Matt LaFleur. Both cut their teeth in the NFL coming up through the same offensive schemes, and it would be an outright shock if the Jets’ LaFleur didn’t contact his older brother about the week ahead…

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6. The Milano difference was noticeable

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7. Rousseau’s absence impacted the game

 

The play of second-year defensive end Greg Rousseau has become such an important piece to the Bills’ defense for two reasons. Not only has he become a difficult player to block one-on-one, but the gap between him and the rotational defensive ends has widened by the week…

There’s a lot more detail in the article but I tried to post the gist of it.

 

Also thought it was interesting that the Jets loss came almost exactly 1 year after the jaguars loss (which was Nov. 7 2021).

Mid season lull is real.

Edited November 7, 2022 by BillsFan4