Rubes Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 Been wondering for a while about the Bills offensive strategy when they’re down inside the other team’s 5-yard line or so. Seems like they’ve had some troubles down there this season, and it puzzles me. One of the best designed plays I’ve seen from this offense came last year during the away game at the Pats***. The Bills were inside the Pats*** 5-yard line, and the Bills ran two receivers to the left, one of whom was Dawson Knox. Allen ran a play-action bootleg to the left, and since he can outrun any LBs to that side, he created basically a 3-on-2 situation with the defense. All he had to do was read the two coverage defenders: if they stuck to the receivers, he just runs it in, and if one or both leaves the receiver to stop him, he just easily flips the ball to the open receiver for the TD. In this case, the defender on Knox came after Allen, and he sidearmed it to a wide open Knox. It’s a brilliant design, mostly because Allen is so big, fast, and strong that he creates an almost indefensible play. All it takes is a decent play fake to freeze the LB on that side, and there’s almost nothing they can do to stop the TD. So what the heck happened to this play? It could be me, but I don’t recall seeing it again after that. Until Sunday night. And it worked, just as well as it did before. Get Josh out of the pocket to a situation with a numbers advantage, and force the defense to choose their demise. Now, I’m not advocating that we try this play every time we’re down inside the 5-yard line, but this play is so damn hard for defenses to cover I just can’t image that we don’t see them try this at least once every game or two. Even if it gets defenses to key on it, at least you’re potentially opening things up for a regular run between the tackles. I’m sure the answer is that defenses are already keying on that play and are doing something to negate it, but not sure what that would be. I’m obviously no offensive coordinator. 2 Quote
NewEra Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 Just now, Rubes said: Been wondering for a while about the Bills offensive strategy when they’re down inside the other team’s 5-yard line or so. Seems like they’ve had some troubles down there this season, and it puzzles me. One of the best designed plays I’ve seen from this offense came last year during the away game at the Pats***. The Bills were inside the Pats*** 5-yard line, and the Bills ran two receivers to the left, one of whom was Dawson Knox. Allen ran a play-action bootleg to the left, and since he can outrun any LBs to that side, he created basically a 3-on-2 situation with the defense. All he had to do was read the two coverage defenders: if they stuck to the receivers, he just runs it in, and if one or both leaves the receiver to stop him, he just easily flips the ball to the open receiver for the TD. In this case, the defender on Knox came after Allen, and he sidearmed it to a wide open Knox. It’s a brilliant design, mostly because Allen is so big, fast, and strong that he creates an almost indefensible play. All it takes is a decent play fake to freeze the LB on that side, and there’s almost nothing they can do to stop the TD. So what the heck happened to this play? It could be me, but I don’t recall seeing it again after that. Until Sunday night. And it worked, just as well as it did before. Get Josh out of the pocket to a situation with a numbers advantage, and force the defense to choose their demise. Now, I’m not advocating that we try this play every time we’re down inside the 5-yard line, but this play is so damn hard for defenses to cover I just can’t image that we don’t see them try this at least once every game or two. Even if it gets defenses to key on it, at least you’re potentially opening things up for a regular run between the tackles. I’m sure the answer is that defenses are already keying on that play and are doing something to negate it, but not sure what that would be. I’m obviously no offensive coordinator. Saving it for the playoffs would be my guess. 2 2 Quote
Rubes Posted November 2, 2022 Author Posted November 2, 2022 1 minute ago, NewEra said: Saving it for the playoffs would be my guess. I mean, I guess? I get the idea of surprising a team in the playoffs when needed, but they didn’t pull it out last year in the playoffs. And it’s such a hard play to defend, why not dare teams to prepare for it and keep trying it until someone figures it out? Then they can look at what that team did and see what kind of weakness it introduces to the defense. Quote
HoofHearted Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 12 minutes ago, Rubes said: Been wondering for a while about the Bills offensive strategy when they’re down inside the other team’s 5-yard line or so. Seems like they’ve had some troubles down there this season, and it puzzles me. One of the best designed plays I’ve seen from this offense came last year during the away game at the Pats***. The Bills were inside the Pats*** 5-yard line, and the Bills ran two receivers to the left, one of whom was Dawson Knox. Allen ran a play-action bootleg to the left, and since he can outrun any LBs to that side, he created basically a 3-on-2 situation with the defense. All he had to do was read the two coverage defenders: if they stuck to the receivers, he just runs it in, and if one or both leaves the receiver to stop him, he just easily flips the ball to the open receiver for the TD. In this case, the defender on Knox came after Allen, and he sidearmed it to a wide open Knox. It’s a brilliant design, mostly because Allen is so big, fast, and strong that he creates an almost indefensible play. All it takes is a decent play fake to freeze the LB on that side, and there’s almost nothing they can do to stop the TD. So what the heck happened to this play? It could be me, but I don’t recall seeing it again after that. Until Sunday night. And it worked, just as well as it did before. Get Josh out of the pocket to a situation with a numbers advantage, and force the defense to choose their demise. Now, I’m not advocating that we try this play every time we’re down inside the 5-yard line, but this play is so damn hard for defenses to cover I just can’t image that we don’t see them try this at least once every game or two. Even if it gets defenses to key on it, at least you’re potentially opening things up for a regular run between the tackles. I’m sure the answer is that defenses are already keying on that play and are doing something to negate it, but not sure what that would be. I’m obviously no offensive coordinator. Naked Bootlegs have been the go-to down there all season as well as in down and short situations all year long. 1 Quote
Rubes Posted November 2, 2022 Author Posted November 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: Naked Bootlegs have been the go-to down there all season as well as in down and short situations all year long. My sense is that there is a difference between a regular naked bootleg and one where it’s down at the goal line with a design to get Josh into a situation where defenders have to choose. I don’t recall seeing that specific type of play this season. Josh may have tried a bootleg, but I don’t recall seeing that kind of option play. Quote
HoofHearted Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 Just now, Rubes said: My sense is that there is a difference between a regular naked bootleg and one where it’s down at the goal line with a design to get Josh into a situation where defenders have to choose. I don’t recall seeing that specific type of play this season. Josh may have tried a bootleg, but I don’t recall seeing that kind of option play. They all have that option. That's bootlegs by design. If the throw is there you take it, but if the defenders don't bite and play coverage you have the option to keep it. Quote
NewEra Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 14 minutes ago, Rubes said: I mean, I guess? I get the idea of surprising a team in the playoffs when needed, but they didn’t pull it out last year in the playoffs. And it’s such a hard play to defend, why not dare teams to prepare for it and keep trying it until someone figures it out? Then they can look at what that team did and see what kind of weakness it introduces to the defense. Idk. That’s just my guess. I agree, it’s a nice play. Not sure why they wouldn’t use it Quote
Rubes Posted November 2, 2022 Author Posted November 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: They all have that option. That's bootlegs by design. If the throw is there you take it, but if the defenders don't bite and play coverage you have the option to keep it. Not always, no. Quote
boyst Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) no need to risk Josh for these types of scores early in the season. we haven't need to risk it to score points agains tteams this year. however, we did try to run something similar to this with Isiaih McKenzie against the Fish and Josh threw the ball right at the turf. Edited November 2, 2022 by boyst Quote
Rubes Posted November 2, 2022 Author Posted November 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, boyst said: no need to risk Josh for these types of scores early in the season. we haven't need to risk it to score points agains tteams this year. I suppose, though it doesn’t seem like the overriding strategy is to “not risk Josh” in other situations. Quote
HoofHearted Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Rubes said: Not always, no. Yes, always... I get a lot of fans aren't in the know about X's and O's but that's something I'm sure you can google and find out... EDIT: Here you go - I did the legwork for you. Picked the first thing that popped up when I googled it. If you don't want to read all of it here's the part where it discusses the option. "The first option is almost always to throw the ball to an open receiver downfield. They can either throw on the run to a receiver who is running a route in the same direction, or he can stop, plant his feet, and throw back across the field to a receiver running a deep route or a route toward the other side of the field. Quarterbacks will also have the option of pulling the ball down and running with it." Edited November 2, 2022 by HoofHearted Quote
Big Turk Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 I wonder why the Bills try and condense the formation so much when they are running in these situations since they obviously suck at it. Quote
Ethan in Cleveland Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 47 minutes ago, Rubes said: Been wondering for a while about the Bills offensive strategy when they’re down inside the other team’s 5-yard line or so. Seems like they’ve had some troubles down there this season, and it puzzles me. One of the best designed plays I’ve seen from this offense came last year during the away game at the Pats***. The Bills were inside the Pats*** 5-yard line, and the Bills ran two receivers to the left, one of whom was Dawson Knox. Allen ran a play-action bootleg to the left, and since he can outrun any LBs to that side, he created basically a 3-on-2 situation with the defense. All he had to do was read the two coverage defenders: if they stuck to the receivers, he just runs it in, and if one or both leaves the receiver to stop him, he just easily flips the ball to the open receiver for the TD. In this case, the defender on Knox came after Allen, and he sidearmed it to a wide open Knox. It’s a brilliant design, mostly because Allen is so big, fast, and strong that he creates an almost indefensible play. All it takes is a decent play fake to freeze the LB on that side, and there’s almost nothing they can do to stop the TD. So what the heck happened to this play? It could be me, but I don’t recall seeing it again after that. Until Sunday night. And it worked, just as well as it did before. Get Josh out of the pocket to a situation with a numbers advantage, and force the defense to choose their demise. Now, I’m not advocating that we try this play every time we’re down inside the 5-yard line, but this play is so damn hard for defenses to cover I just can’t image that we don’t see them try this at least once every game or two. Even if it gets defenses to key on it, at least you’re potentially opening things up for a regular run between the tackles. I’m sure the answer is that defenses are already keying on that play and are doing something to negate it, but not sure what that would be. I’m obviously no offensive coordinator. Didn't they run the exact play against the Packers that Knox scored ??? 1 Quote
boyst Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 42 minutes ago, Rubes said: I suppose, though it doesn’t seem like the overriding strategy is to “not risk Josh” in other situations. im thinking it's josh's decision and risks when he does that. we have seen less designed runs and seem more risk averse when making play calls. Quote
BearNorth Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 31 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Didn't they run the exact play against the Packers that Knox scored ??? Yeah Josh runs past the DE #91, breaks that tackle and just flipped the ball to Knox 7 yards deep for the TD. Quote
Rubes Posted November 2, 2022 Author Posted November 2, 2022 58 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Didn't they run the exact play against the Packers that Knox scored ??? Did you read the entire post? 1 hour ago, HoofHearted said: Yes, always... I get a lot of fans aren't in the know about X's and O's but that's something I'm sure you can google and find out... EDIT: Here you go - I did the legwork for you. Picked the first thing that popped up when I googled it. If you don't want to read all of it here's the part where it discusses the option. "The first option is almost always to throw the ball to an open receiver downfield. They can either throw on the run to a receiver who is running a route in the same direction, or he can stop, plant his feet, and throw back across the field to a receiver running a deep route or a route toward the other side of the field. Quarterbacks will also have the option of pulling the ball down and running with it." I’ve seen plenty of times when Josh runs a bootleg and the goal is to have him run for the first down with no receivers as an outlet. I mean, perhaps the TV angle makes it so you can’t see a receiving option in view, but I am pretty confident that I’ve seen plays where there was a bootleg without a specific receiver in the field. 27 minutes ago, BearNorth said: Yeah Josh runs past the DE #91, breaks that tackle and just flipped the ball to Knox 7 yards deep for the TD. As I mentioned in the original post. Quote
st pete gogolak Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 It would be nice, I don't know, give it to a running back and have the running back rush it into the endzone. It would certainly throw the opposing team for a loop. Quote
US Egg Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 JA17 changes how to run an offense. Hence, offensive strategy is affected. Quote
WotAGuy Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 My preferred strategy inside the 5 is to take a holding penalty, back up 10 yards, and throw a TD to Knox, Diggs, etc. 1 Quote
LABILLBACKER Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 50 minutes ago, WotAGuy said: My preferred strategy inside the 5 is to take a holding penalty, back up 10 yards, and throw a TD to Knox, Diggs, etc. Or just hand the ball off to Jordan Phillips and let him knock guys over like bowling pins. 1 Quote
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