Bills trade for Nyheim Hines

[colin]

33 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I can’t say I disagree but isn’t that more about play design and play calling than personnel? We were using Singletary in that role in last year’s playoff game against KC and he did just fine, picking up first downs at will. I’ve always felt it was better if you keep the defense guessing rather than them being able to say “Hines is in…here comes the swing pass”.  With that said, I trust the leadership. But I do think this was more about getting ‘something’ for Moss, who they’ve mentally moved on from, than it was about acquiring Hines or any particular skill set. Just my two cents.

 

ya, that's fair, also i think they wanted an option incase they can't get to a new deal w motor.

 

overall, i think our front office is really quick to pull the plug on guys who fumble or make mistakes w the ball, and they will be more likely to run plays that use rbs if they have confidence in the rb on the field.

 

imo, they'll use our new weapon a couple different ways and it will let them to break tendencies somewhat.

[1onemangang7]

18 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

This is my point. He didn't say anything close to what you are going on about. He was talking about where Allen stood in terms of rushing yards and rushing attempts, not about what QB was better.

 

So, while you did write a coherent thought, it literally made no sense as a reply to his post.

 

Think of it this way: It would be like somebody writing a post talking about Josh Allen's running stats and I replied to that post by saying my favorite color was green. It is a coherent thought, but a nonsensical reply to 

You missed the one before.  Was about moving the sticks.  Watch more games and he will catch on he says no other teams qbs run more and we don't rely on him as much as I say .  

[Beck Water]

46 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

Serious question. I like the move of adding Hines (gave up nothing and actually got them to take Moss from us) and think he is a receiving threat and has home run capability. So why did the Colts let him go for nothing?

 

It's a good question.  The short answer, I think, is that the Colts don't see Moss as getting "nothing".  

 

To summarize, the Colts swapped their #4 RB and #4 WR who was underutilized in their system and superfluous as a PR, for our #3 RB (underutilized on a team that doesn't run much behind a poor run blocking OL) who has good hands as a receiving outlet in the flat and can pass protect, AND they get a draft pick to boot.  They think they got a good deal.

 

-Moss 5.3 y/a on 17 attempts for 91 yds slots in as better production than the Colts #2 back (30 attempts for 100 yds)

-Hines was #4 on their RB list with 18 carries for 36 yds or 2 y/a

-Hines was #4 WR for targets and yards with 25 receptions for 188 yds.  They have several receivers/TE who have almost his productivity and they feel can step in.  -He was their #1 PR man but they now have 2 players who can do that job. 

 

The Colts chose to re-up Hines who had by far his best years with Luck and Rivers at QB, but the change in OC from Nick Sirianni to Marcus Brady and at QB from Ryan to young pup Sam Ehlinger may factor into his declining production the last 2 years; it's also possible with Ehlinger taking over it's more important to the Colts to have a more productive RB who can pass protect, than it is to have an elusive fast receiver who can play some RB.

 

 

 

[Process]

1 hour ago, PaattMaann said:

Serious question. I like the move of adding Hines (gave up nothing and actually got them to take Moss from us) and think he is a receiving threat and has home run capability. So why did the Colts let him go for nothing?

They are tanking and he was their 4th string RB making $5M per year. Salary dump.

[1onemangang7]

30 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

This is my point. He didn't say anything close to what you are going on about. He was talking about where Allen stood in terms of rushing yards and rushing attempts, not about what QB was better.

 

So, while you did write a coherent thought, it literally made no sense as a reply to his post.

 

Think of it this way: It would be like somebody writing a post talking about Josh Allen's running stats and I replied to that post by saying my favorite color was green. It is a coherent thought, but a nonsensical reply to the post.

 

Things might move a little fast around here for ya now. The Sabres thread is a good place to slow down. They're post to lose.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Apparently when Schefter broke the news live on ESPN, he reported that Hines requested a trade. This is per several Colts fans on Twitter. He wasn't happy with his usage there.

 

I haven't heard that Moss asked for a trade, but his twitter is full of re-tweets of various faith accounts "be patient, God's timeline is not yours"  "I will turn around every bad situation in your life" "God is making a way for you, you can trust his perfect timing" so I think it's fair to say he was unhappy with his usage here, either

 

Hope this works for the best for both of them.

[billsfan1959]

13 minutes ago, gridirongold said:

You missed the one before.  Was about moving the sticks.  Watch more games and he will catch on he says no other teams qbs run more and we don't rely on him as much as I say .  

 

Fair enough in terms of the Bills relying on more on Allen to get those yards in those critical 3rd or 4th and short situations more than other teams rely on their QBs in similar situations. Although, I think there is a legitimate argument that Hurts and Jackson are also relied upon a great deal by their respective teams in similar situations.

 

4 minutes ago, gridirongold said:

Things might move a little fast around here for ya now. The Sabres thread is a good place to slow down. They're post to lose.

 

And here I was ready to give you the benefit of the doubt in my post above and you write another nonsensical post....

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by billsfan1959

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I haven't heard that Moss asked for a trade, but his twitter is full of re-tweets of various faith accounts "be patient, God's timeline is not yours"  "I will turn around every bad situation in your life" "God is making a way for you, you can trust his perfect timing" so I think it's fair to say he was unhappy with his usage here, either

 

Hope this works for the best for both of them.

 

Moss is a weird dude. A year or so ago he made his way onto Joe Marino's Locked On Bills podcast, to promote his own new podcast. The bizarre part was how terrible he sounded. He's trying to promote his podcast but he sounds like an introverted high school student delivering a book report. A lot of uh's and muttering and generally just not pleasant to listen to. Why is a depth RB with poor public speaking skills starting a podcast? I don't want to be the guy that criticizes players for doing anything other than play football, but for a player at his level just getting started in his career it was a bizarre choice.

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by HappyDays

[SoCal Deek]

36 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Right. i honestly would have thought even a very average fan of the game would be familiar with his game..... Man, everytime ive watched a colts game over the last 3 years i've constantly found myself admiring his game and saying "we NEED that dynamic"

 

Pure explosiveness 

Ha!  I'm sorry for not keeping up with the #4 Running Back on the Indianapolis Colts. I have to say that I'm constantly impressed with the level of interest shown by so many on here. I guess it's partly because I refuse to play Fantasy Football. But...just wait until you get old, young man, and all of these players will start running together in your head as well. (kidding)

[BuffaloRebound]

Gotta hand it to Beane.  Whatever mistakes he makes, he recognizes and tries to correct.  We went from having maybe the least dynamic RB room to now having a legit threat and it only cost a 6th rounder and a guy who doesn’t dress on sundays.  

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Moss is a weird dude. A year or so ago he made his way onto Joe Marino's Locked On Bills podcast, to promote his own new podcast. The bizarre part was how terrible he sounded. He's trying to promote his podcast but he sounds like an introverted high school student delivering a book report. A lot of uh's and muttering and generally just not pleasant listen to. Why is a depth RB with poor public speaking skills starting a podcast? I don't want to be the guy that criticizes players for doing anything other than play football, but for a player at his level just getting started in his career it was a bizarre choice.

 

I think a lot of these guys are trying to build their own "brand" with podcasts and clothing lines and etc. 

 

For some of them who have already made a name for themselves as players, like Poyer, it makes more sense and I think fans have more interest/tolerance while they figure it out, if it isn't good from the start.

 

For others I worry it's a distraction and they're kind of being exploited by a partner who proposes it to them.   I think Moss would fall into that category.  They have to take care of business and build their brand on the field first, and if they want to build a brand in the community start out with a cause or good works, like Knox Socks for the PUNT foundation or something like that.  Or, have an angle that's a bit unique, for example Christianity is obviously important to Moss, a podcast that focused on that perspective might be interesting (does it cause confliction in locker rooms, contradictions between some of the hi-jinx athletes get up to off field and their professed faith, etc etc).

[1onemangang7]

13 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Fair enough in terms of the Bills relying on more on Allen to get those yards in those critical 3rd or 4th and short situations more than other teams rely on their QBs in similar situations. Although, I think there is a legitimate argument that Hurts and Jackson are also relied upon a great deal by their respective teams in similar situations.

 

 

And here I was ready to give you the benefit of the doubt in my post above and you write another nonsensical post....

 

Well I did eat word salad. People who play fantasy pretty much miss the game. They watch it different. Their eyes move with a particular player. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I like this trade - they brought in cooks to do some of the pass catching elements, but i see him as sort of a spell back to singletary at times.  3 guys with different skill sets - but they all can pretty much play in this offense on any down.  

[SCBills]

I’ll admit that I’ll be a bit disappointed if this move means Cook is relegated to the Zack Moss depth role.  
 

His talent is evident and he finally had a breakout game on Sunday Night showing  inside running, outside running and pass catching ability.  
 

That being said.. Singletary/Hines is a proven, legit backfield.  Two above average backs who can play any down in this offense. 
 

Will also be interesting to see what the future holds for them.  We finally got that proven pass catching back, but his cap hits for the next two years - while not crazy - are still notable. Given we can cut him after this year, and the sheer amount of talented FA backs, it’s likely in both teams best interests to restructure the deal.  
 

Likely means this is Singletary’s last year here and we roll with Hines/Cook and a power back in the draft/free agency. 

[Beck Water]

 

Athletic article about the trade:

 

https://theathletic.com/3752929/2022/11/01/nyheim-hines-trade-bills-colts/?source=spotrac&pc=spotrac40off2

 

Quote

The Colts have struggled over the years to find ways to consistently involve Hines in an offense that includes 2021 league rushing champ Taylor, and before that, a 1,000-yard rusher in Marlon Mack. The constant shuffling at quarterback certainly hasn’t helped.

 

Hines never voiced his frustrations publicly, but privately the lack of involvement wore on him. As such, he welcomed the trade.

 

Quote

After a career year with Rivers in 2020 — Hines had 152 touches for 862 all-purpose yards and seven touchdowns — his totals dipped significantly with Wentz last season.

 

A person familiar with the situation said Colts head coach and offensive play caller Frank Reich told Hines in the offseason that a plan would be in place — around 12 touches per game, roughly six on the ground and six through the air, depending on the game plan and opponent — to get him more involved this season.

 

Quote

But it was more of the same through eight games: Hines has 43 touches, around seven per game, for 229 yards. Even taking into account the time he’s missed (almost two full games, after he suffered a concussion on the third offensive snap against Denver, then missed the following week), Hines hasn’t been a consistent factor.

 

He wanted more of a chance to show what he could do.

 

A little bit concerned by this.

Bills have been giving their RBs about 17 touches per game.  Motor gets 10 of them, Cook and Moss have been splitting the rest.

A platoon of McKenzie, Crowder, and Shakir in the slot have been seeing about 10 targets per game

 

Giving Nyheim 6 rushes and 6 targets in the air seems kind of ambitious here.  There's only one ball, and I'd like to see Cook and Shakir continue to see some playing time.  If he's upset that he's only been seeing 7-8 touches per game with the Colts, is he going to settle in OK with the Bills?

 

[Edit to add: after watching Nyheim Hines introductory presser, I am no longer worried at all on this point.]

 

 

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

I’ll admit that I’ll be a bit disappointed if this move means Cook is relegated to the Zack Moss depth role.  
 

His talent is evident and he finally had a breakout game on Sunday Night showing  inside running, outside running and pass catching ability.  
 

That being said.. Singletary/Hines is a proven, legit backfield.  Two above average backs who can play any down in this offense. 
 

Will also be interesting to see what the future holds for them.  We finally got that proven pass catching back, but his cap hits for the next two years - while not crazy - are still notable. Given we can cut him after this year, and the sheer amount of talented FA backs, it’s likely in both teams best interests to restructure the deal.  
 

Likely means this is Singletary’s last year here and we roll with Hines/Cook and a power back in the draft/free agency. 

 

It could just be me, but I don't think the Bills see Hines as a Singletary replacement as an every-down, majority of the snaps kind of player.

Hines has been a 30-40% of the snaps guy his entire career.

Motor has been a 60-70% of the snaps guy his career, 71% so far this year.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Beck Water

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

Athletic article about the trade:

 

https://theathletic.com/3752929/2022/11/01/nyheim-hines-trade-bills-colts/?source=spotrac&pc=spotrac40off2

 

 

 

 

A little bit concerned by this.

Bills have been giving their RBs about 17 touches per game.  Motor gets 10 of them, Cook and Moss have been splitting the rest.

A platoon of McKenzie, Crowder, and Shakir in the slot have been seeing about 10 targets per game

 

Giving Nyheim 6 rushes and 6 targets in the air seems kind of ambitious here.  There's only one ball, and I'd like to see Cook and Shakir continue to see some playing time.  If he's upset that he's only been seeing 7-8 touches per game with the Colts, is he going to settle in OK with the Bills?

 

 

 

I dunno. Do we expect Crowder to come back and be a factor? I suspect Nyheim will get an opportunity to return kicks and it would be foolish not to use his pass catching prowess in play design. Regardless, he upgrades the rb room and if it doesn't work out, no cap consequences to let him go next year. He can't be any more useless than Moss on this team.

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I dunno. Do we expect Crowder to come back and be a factor? I suspect Nyheim will get an opportunity to return kicks and it would be foolish not to use his pass catching prowess in play design. Regardless, he upgrades the rb room and if it doesn't work out, no cap consequences to let him go next year. He can't be any more useless than Moss on this team.

 

It's been discussed in the Crowder thread, but no, at least I don't; the guy was reported as having a broken, dislocated ankle (meaning a broken leg bone + a high ankle sprain); that's been reported as a 4-6 month rehab.

 

He was seen bringing his kid to the Bills Halloween party while riding a scooter.

 

Hines can be more useless than Moss if, instead of being a good soldier, he sulks if he's cast in a backup role.

[Edit: no longer concerned on this point after his presser]

 

I think he'll go in as the primary punt returner right away.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Beck Water

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Right. i honestly would have thought even a very average fan of the game would be familiar with his game..... Man, everytime ive watched a colts game over the last 3 years i've constantly found myself admiring his game and saying "we NEED that dynamic"

 

Pure explosiveness 

  

 

In that 2020 season WC playoff game versus Indy he was the quickest, fastest player on the field.    Gave the Bills defense fits.   I rarely get moved by the play of a RB but he was explosive that day.   He has been playing in exactly the WRONG offense for his skillset.   

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

It's been discussed in the Crowder thread, but no, at least I don't; the guy was reported as having a broken, dislocated ankle (meaning a broken leg bone + a high ankle sprain); that's been reported as a 4-6 month rehab.

 

He was seen bringing his kid to the Bills Halloween party while riding a scooter.

 

He can be more useless if, instead of being a good soldier, he sulks.

 

I think he'll go in as the primary punt returner to start.

Yes, I was too lazy to look into the Crowder thread. Thank you on the update.

 

Hines could have spent the rest of the year with a failing Colts team. He now has the opporunity to contribute to a possible SB winner. At minimum, he will increase his future earnings by not sulking and fitting in as best as he can. Of course, if he's poor character and dim, he may sulk. Hopefully that's not the case.

[Whites Bay]

13 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

  If he's upset that he's only been seeing 7-8 touches per game with the Colts, is he going to settle in OK with the Bills?

I guess I understand your point, but I would think:

 

1) It is a valid point, and McDermott has already asked him that (I could certainly be wrong here);

2) Hey, kid.  You WERE playing for the Colts going nowhere, and you ARE playing for the Super Bowl favorite and a chance for a ring.  Big choice in front of you - window or aisle seat.