NFL messing up a good thing (Pat McAfee)

[1ManRaid]

10 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The way McAfee was using trademarked logos to create original monetized content doesn't fall under Fair Use, and he's not a news organization. News channels have different rights under Fair Use than entertainment shows.

 

And you're right, the NFL could issue a cease and desist to any content creator using NFL logos. I received one of those letters from the Bills legal team that forced a now defunct Bills fan site to change its name and stop using the Bills logo a long time ago. 

 

Nope.  Being an "entertainment show" doesn't exclude you from Fair Use, that's not a thing.  It still qualifies as commentary, criticism, and news reporting.  It is transformative by nature, and is not acting as a substitute for the original use of the copyrighted works.  He is not claiming to represent those entities, nor is he doing things like making merchandise using those images that would replace sales from official sources.

 

His use of the material is not the basis of the content he creates as the source of his income.  The commentary and criticism is.

Edited November 1, 2022 by 1ManRaid

[Motorin']

Just now, 1ManRaid said:

 

Nope.  Being an "entertainment show" doesn't exclude you from Fair Use, that's not a thing.  It still qualifies as commentary, criticism, and news reporting.  It is transformative by nature, and is not acting as a substitute for the original use of the copyrighted works.  He is not claiming to represent those entities, nor is he doing things like making merchandise using those images that would replace sales from official sources.

 

I didn't say being an entertainment show excludes you from Fair Use. I said entertainment shows don't have the same Fair Use rights as news shows. 

 

And his content is monetized, and the more views he draws the more money he makes. So using other companies' logos to make graphics for his is show is something he has pay for. He in fact is competing against the NFL Network for views, and the more views he pulls away from the NFL Network the less money they can charge their advertisers. 

[1ManRaid]

25 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I didn't say being an entertainment show excludes you from Fair Use. I said entertainment shows don't have the same Fair Use rights as news shows. 

 

And his content is monetized, and the more views he draws the more money he makes. So using other companies' logos to make graphics for his is show is something he has pay for. He in fact is competing against the NFL Network for views, and the more views he pulls away from the NFL Network the less money they can charge their advertisers. 

 

No, it doesn't matter.  You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Fair Use is or what copyright law covers.  "Competing for views" is irrelevant, because his objectively unique content is not a direct replacement for whatever content the NFL is putting out.  He's not rebroadcasting the games, he's not making merchandise using the logos, nothing like that.  The images are merely being used for illustrative and commentary purposes.  Yes, he makes money making his content, but again that is irrelevant. The money he makes are from his advertising deals and other tangental agreements, not directly from his use of the logos.

 

You're arguing from the bottom of an extremely slippery slope, where you're not allowed to cover or talk about anything as long as it "competes" with the NFL in some loose tangential way.

 

EVERYONE has access to Fair Use.  It is not something unique to formal news outlets.  

Edited November 1, 2022 by 1ManRaid

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The Pat McAfee show was notified by the NFL, that even though the show pays the NFL $4M/yr to use clips and copyright material, the show is NOT allowed to use team logos in the graphics they make.

 

SMH...

 

Pat McAfee is the best thing FOOTBALL (college and NFL) has going towards marketing their products. Of course the NFL wants to mess that up.

 

I love McAfee's response "I dont think we've touched on many subjects we could have that we now will in the offseason. Such as CTE and insurance and the NFL being held accountable for the things they should be accountable for. Guess we'll start talking a lot more about that stuff."

 

 

lol no

 

 

[Motorin']

15 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

No, it doesn't matter.  You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Fair Use is or what copyright law covers.  "Competing for views" is irrelevant, because his objectively unique content is not a direct replacement for whatever content the NFL is putting out.  He's not rebroadcasting the games, he's not making merchandise using the logos, nothing like that.  The images are merely being used for illustrative and commentary purposes.  Yes, he makes money making his content, but again that is irrelevant. The money he makes are from his advertising deals and other tangental agreements, not directly from his use of the logos.

 

You're arguing from the bottom of an extremely slippery slope, where you're not allowed to cover or talk about anything as long as it "competes" with the NFL in some loose tangential way.

 

EVERYONE has access to Fair Use.  It is not something unique to formal news outlets.  

 

With all due respect, you are incorrect sir. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Motorin'

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

With all due respect, you are incorrect sir. 

 

Is this the part where you and @1ManRaid start posting links to your linkedin? 

[Motorin']

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Is this the part where you and @1ManRaid start posting links to your linkedin? 

 

No, this is the part where if I'm wrong Pat McAfee gets to use NFL team logos without having to pay any fees. 

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Pat McAfee is the best thing FOOTBALL (college and NFL) has going towards marketing their products. Of course the NFL wants to mess that up.

 

I love McAfee's response "I dont think we've touched on many subjects we could have that we now will in the offseason. Such as CTE and insurance and the NFL being held accountable for the things they should be accountable for. Guess we'll start talking a lot more about that stuff."

 

lol say what??

 

Anyway, The NFL isn't worried about this punter.  He's throwing down the CTE card...now?  Pretty silly.  

 

[JerseyBills]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

That show makes enough money to cover the $4 million a year?

McAfee got 100 mil deal.  Crazy I know.  Not a big fan but it's decent to watch clips

[1ManRaid]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

With all due respect, you are incorrect sir. 

 

Have you actually followed any real life copyright court cases?  Cuz I sure as hell have.  I'm really interested in knowing how you came into this belief that Fair Use only applies to "official" news outlets.

[Motorin']

7 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Have you actually followed any real life copyright court cases?  Cuz I sure as hell have.  I'm really interested in knowing how you came into this belief that Fair Use only applies to "official" news outlets.

 

Oh boy. That's not at all what I've  said, twice now.

 

Maybe you should DM McAfee and offer to represent him in a Fair Use case against the NFL?

 

 

[hemma]

9 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Some of the NFL owners are the owners of the gambling houses, that’s why.

 

I didn’t know that.

 

That sounds potentially sticky/borderline filthy.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, hemma said:

 

I didn’t know that.

 

That sounds potentially sticky/borderline filthy.

That’s because it is as you stated,

[Captain Hindsight]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

To be fair, I haven’t listen to him enough but I don’t really get the PM love. He seems like kinda of a spaz and he is still a punter. I think pardon my take is far better than him. 

I think he’s just fun and a high energy guy. He has some good interviews too and a has a good perspective on the NFL. I could also see why people wouldn’t like him for his personality. 

[MaltaBillsFan]

11 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I always love these arguments

 

Millionaires and Billionaires getting the rift raft to argue about their squabbles. 

"Riff Raff" disreputable or undesirable people.   rift raft??

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

I personally hope he draws the teams in every time, stick figure Nick Chubb is my favorite right now but I can't wait to see stick figure Josh Allen!

[Tanoros]

12 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Pay the fee or don’t use NFL products. That simple. Stop crying about it Simp. 

Did you miss the part about them paying $4 million to use NFL content? It sounds like they just received word it can only be game clips and not logos. It’s a little misleading by the NFL to not make that clear when someone is paying millions to use their content, like noting what can and can’t be used. 

[RocCityRoller]

19 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Pay the fee or don’t use NFL products. That simple. Stop crying about it Simp. 

Ironic coming from a guy who has a Bills logo and an AFC Conference logo in your avatar.

Edited November 2, 2022 by RocCityRoller

[NoSaint]

54 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I think he’s just fun and a high energy guy. He has some good interviews too and a has a good perspective on the NFL. I could also see why people wouldn’t like him for his personality. 

I think he’s obnoxious as hell sometimes, but that he’s producing a more authentic insight into the nfl than most major media guys. He makes good connections with the players and gets them going in a more unfiltered manner than just about anyone else these days.

 

he’s got the authenticity of a guy that spent time in the locker room and doesn’t burn it the way most ex players do when trying to figure out the media side 

[HardyBoy]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

I personally hope he draws the teams in every time, stick figure Nick Chubb is my favorite right now but I can't wait to see stick figure Josh Allen!

It’s going to be an amazing running gag, I can’t wait!

 

My sense on the issue was the timing aspect of it and the lack of mutual respect and understanding of value PMS was providing in terms of building excitement for the NFL. My guess is this was a situation where an immediate cease and desist was sent. 
 

Also, there is a tiny part of me is wondering if this is an intentional fake thing they’re doing to drive interest. I doubt it, but PM got a big push from the Dan Lebatard Show early on and I could see that…they also were definitely not trolling their audience when he went hard after the MLB. 
 

I’m not watching PMS for the highlights or the logos, I didn’t even realize they really showed highlights and I don’t pay attention to logos (like I said, I’m super pumped for hand drawn logos though). Same with Dan Lebatard, I’m not consuming the content for the sports insight so much, as the poking fun at people who take sports way too seriously. 
 

Someone earlier used the term zeitgeist and I think that’s spot on. The NFL should tread lightly, because as much as anyone in the sports media landscape, Pat McAfee either captures or controls the zeitgeist really well.
 

Also, they did recently talk about some darker side stuff of the nfl while talking about how the Packers never used tordol while AJ Hawk was there. It was brief and they kind of talked about it discretely like it was a third rail, but they talked about it. 

 

Lastly, I’m confused by the strategy here by the NFL. As a business strategy, are they focused on maximizing revenue or growing their business. I didn’t get the sense they were in a late stage milk all contracts, minimize marketing phase, but looks like maybe I’m wrong?

 

Probably isn’t covered under fair use, because the contract for the highlights perhaps excludes that? At the same time, who cares about the contract, because you know they have these things called contract amendments that happen all the time.
 

Just an unforced error on the part of the NFL, or maybe this is part of a coordinated plan with Irsay to take the focus off the Dan Snyder stuff…