Is There So Little Love for Tremaine Edmunds?

[Dopey]

59 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Nobody expects Edmunds to be perfect. Milano made plays later in the game. Edmunds did not.

Those of us who are Edmunds skeptics have praised his play up until GB. 

Why can't the Edmunds apologists criticize him when he plays poorly?

Milano made some plays, he also missed plays in the run game. I watched the game again. They both had some issues , but Edmunds is the whipping boy, not Milano. Anyone notice Milano has terrible hands. He finally caught one that hit his hands. Early in the game Edmunds gifted Milano an interception, but Milano couldn’t make the play. He missed gaps that night too. Some of us get Edmunds is this year’s whipping boy. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

I agree with the OP 100%.  I started a thread "Tremaine Must Remain" - and it got a lot of love and a lot of flames.  Lots of knowledgable fans on both sides.  I respect the "he's JAG" posters, but I will never understand them.  I see what Tremaine does and I know the game well enough to know that I am not imagining things.  On the other hand, I also see some of the things the haters post about.  Personally, I sure hope we re-sign him and I would make it an absolute top priority.  It is almost like Tremaine is not one player, it is "Edmunds and Milano" considered together.  They operate as a unit.  Together they are unique in taking away the middle of the field in what has become a passing-dominated game.

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by MarlinTheMagician

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I'm guilty of at the same time assessing his play and also figuring out the math on signing with Buffalo again. He is going to want to be paid as a top 3 LB if not the highest. If he was brought back at the 10th highest I'm not sure many on this board would be opposed. However I think only a few people on here if any see him as a top 3 LB in this league. 

I guess Beane and McD will have to decide is it worth paying him top dollar for what he does do for the team. A five year extension doesn't even get him to age 30. They have the chance to lock up a captain and centerpiece of the defense for another half decade of his peak years. 

If they do who goes? You probably lose both Hyde and Poyer which at their age and coming off injuries seems inevitable now. Restructure Allen, White, Morse, and Miller and there probably is enough to sign Edmunds and play Oliver on his 5th year extension. 

[Captain_Quint]

I just didn't think it was fair that the Bills made him dress up for Halloween the way they did. It was clever, but nobody else was dressed up: 

[BillsFan130]

8 hours ago, klos63 said:

Did you think the Dline gave him the help he needed to make tackles closer to the line of scrimmage. Looks like our dline was getting manhandled and Jones was at full speed by the time he passed the line.

Nope they didn’t.

 

I’m not saying it was just his fault. But I don’t think he had a good game at all

[QCity]

10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

   I know that sounds stupid

 

 

Well you nailed it.

[Shake_My_Head]

9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

That's exactly how I feel. He's a tall dime coverage strong safely. And he always has been. 

Which is fine and fits the defense we play (2 LBs, nickel coverage, stop the big play).    He does that job well.   And it works for the Bills.

 

It's just frustrating to watch him defend the run, so often taking the wrong angle, not being able to shed blocks, missing tackles, etc.    Milano (a former college safety) plays much more like a traditional LB than Edmunds, IMO (stronger tackler, better at diagnosing running plays, more active in coverage/INTs).    

[Roundybout]

I don't want to make him the highest-paid linebacker in football and I also want to keep him around. He has too much natural talent to let it go, but only if the price is right. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Shaw and others, 

 

What do you mean credit? 

 

What do you want average Bills fans to do? 

 

Milano gets "more love" because we see him flash across the screen for interceptions and sacks and tackles for loss. 

 

Tremaine is having his best year, and he's productive. Of course, right now, the Bills don't have anyone proven behind him to replace him. So if he doesn't come back it will hurt the defense. 

 

Overall, I don't think he's become the force the team envisioned, but at the same time, he's been a starter now for 5-years and nobody has taken his job. 

[Bruffalo]

11 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

I don't want to make him the highest-paid linebacker in football and I also want to keep him around. He has too much natural talent to let it go, but only if the price is right. 

This is how I feel.  He's decent at run defense and he's great to excellent in coverage. 

 

He probably hasn't lived up to draft status (big ask anyways) but he's been an important piece of the defense and he's effective in the role he's being asked to do.  

 

I don't know if I pay him top 3 money, but he deserves a decent contract though and somebody will pay him if the Bills opt not to. 

[Clark Rotary]

I can’t figure him out. I think he’s good because his role is so central, the defense is great and the front office knows what it’s doing. I’m perplexed by the lack of splash plays and it seems like every other game or so we get a disturbing optic like the unfortunate piggy back ride. And for what it’s worth, I love a good Edwards thread and look forward to them!  

[Freddie's Dead]

LOL, the London "He Makes Tackles 6-8 Yards Downfield" Fletcher justification.  We ran him outta town, and he only played 7 more years and racked up over 900 tackles for the WTF's.  He also ended Fitz's stay in Buffalo with that vicious liver shot.  Santayana is laughing his ass off right now.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, Freddie's Dead said:

LOL, the London "He Makes Tackles 6-8 Yards Downfield" Fletcher justification.  We ran him outta town, and he only played 7 more years and racked up over 900 tackles for the WTF's.  He also ended Fitz's stay in Buffalo with that vicious liver shot.  Santayana is laughing his ass off right now.

The Bills ran him out also because they thought 31 was getting old. 

 

I think the overarching reason for all our players leaving back then was they were cheap. 

[_Underscore_]

I’m in the camp that wishes Edmunds made more splash plays but should be given credit for righteously doing his “1 of 11”.  If it were up to me, I would keep him.  Here’s my question for the rest of you though – from both “pro” and “con” camps…

 

Given:   For the past four or five years, the Bills have been playing smart, strong defense.

and:      The defense is more scheme-based than relying on freak talent.

and:      Edmunds calls the plays for said defense.

then:     Might it not be true that his value to the coaches/organization might be (at least partially) from the neck up?

 

I'm not the most knowledgeable football guy, but it seems to me that the strength of the defense is that it rarely makes egregious mental errors.  A "good" (if unspectacular) player who makes sure everyone else is in a position to succeed is worth more than a stat-line.  

 

So here's my question: how much impact does the "quarterback of the defense" make?  (not a loaded question, I'm seriously asking)

Edited November 1, 2022 by _Underscore_

[TN Bills Fan]

He is constantly in the wrong hole.  Too upright and gets run over.  Esp. Obvious this last week.  Jones dragged him 5 yards for a first down.  Best thing he does is get in the way in pass coverage. I guess that’s enough.

[Iverwig]

2 hours ago, Dopey said:

Milano made some plays, he also missed plays in the run game. I watched the game again. They both had some issues , but Edmunds is the whipping boy, not Milano. Anyone notice Milano has terrible hands. He finally caught one that hit his hands. Early in the game Edmunds gifted Milano an interception, but Milano couldn’t make the play. He missed gaps that night too. Some of us get Edmunds is this year’s whipping boy. 

This year?!?! He’s been the whipping boy since he got here. He’s had a very good year. For the most part those who don’t like him will always pick out his mistakes and stay quiet when he does well.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

LOL, the London "He Makes Tackles 6-8 Yards Downfield" Fletcher justification.  We ran him outta town, and he only played 7 more years and racked up over 900 tackles for the WTF's.  He also ended Fitz's stay in Buffalo with that vicious liver shot.  Santayana is laughing his ass off right now.

Interesting comparison. Fletcher had 5 INT in 5 yrs to go with 5 forced fumbles and 14.5 sacks. So far in 4 1/2 season Edmunds has 4 INT, only 2 FF, and 6.5 sacks.  Fits the narrative that Edmunds just doesn't make that many game changing plays.  I know different eras/schemes and all those arguments....

For the record Fletcher continued to create turnovers in WAS, with a combined 21 INT and FF in 7 years.   

11 minutes ago, _Underscore_ said:

I’m in the camp that wishes Edmunds made more splash plays but should be given credit for righteously doing his “1 of 11”.  If it were up to me, I would keep him.  Here’s my question for the rest of you though – from both “pro” and “con” camps…

 

Given:   For the past four or five years, the Bills have been playing smart, strong defense.

and:      The defense is more scheme-based than relying on freak talent.

and:      Edmunds calls the plays for said defense.

then:     Might it not be true that his value to the coaches/organization might be (at least partially) from the neck up?

 

I'm not the most knowledgeable football guy, but it seems to me that the strength of the defense is that it rarely makes egregious mental errors.  A "good" (if unspectacular) player who makes sure everyone else is in a position to succeed is worth more than a stat-line.  

 

So here's my question: how much impact does the "quarterback of the defense" make?  (not a loaded question, I'm seriously asking)

Good post. One could argue he started as a rookie so if they draft a guy in rounds 1 or 2 there is a good chance he would start immediately in his place.  I'm sure Milano could call the defense and I'm pretty sure just relaying the play call from Frazier is not that critical. 

 

As most agree it's all about the price tag.    

[DC Greg]

I completely agree with your take, OP. He's a fantastic pass coverage LB. One thing that's hard to quantify is how many passes never get thrown over the middle by opposing teams because he's in good position to make a play (and also just a huge human being). He plays his pass coverage assignment really well and makes a big difference in the middle. Considering you have to pass to win in this league, especially in the playoffs, that's the most important attribute for his role in the Bills defense.

 

He is very good sideline to sideline as you pointed out, but he also often over pursuses on offtackle runs and gets washed out of the play too easily. You're also correct that he doesn't fill the gap and stuff RBs like a Ray Lewis or a Roquan Smith. He's gotten a lot better vs. the run though and has great hustle. Overall, he's a huge asset for us because of his pass coverage skills. Not every player is going to be great at everything, but overall he's very good for us.

[Mynamemike]

I think the expectations for Tremaine were so high he’ll never live up to them.   But when you watch the differences between him and Milano they are so far apart on impact plays and just instincts in general.  At this point I look at Tremaine like I did of Paul Posluszny.

 

 Sure, he does give QB’s something to be concerned about running around like the predator in the middle of the field but it just seems like he should just make so many more impact plays with his size and athleticism and he just doesn’t.  I’m ok if we keep him or let him walk, we locked up the more important linebacker last year imo.  

[Freddie's Dead]

7 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Interesting comparison. Fletcher had 5 INT in 5 yrs to go with 5 forced fumbles and 14.5 sacks. So far in 4 1/2 season Edmunds has 4 INT, only 2 FF, and 6.5 sacks.  Fits the narrative that Edmunds just doesn't make that many game changing plays.  I know different eras/schemes and all those arguments....

For the record Fletcher continued to create turnovers in WAS, with a combined 21 INT and FF in 7 years.   

 

I only looked at London's tackle stats for the WTF's, not anything else.  I'm actually surprised that Edmunds has 6.5 sacks, since The Edmunds Report showed how singularly ineffective he is at rushing the passer.  All the "he made the tackle 6-8 yards downfield" posts just brought back memories of all the London Fletcher hate in his last year here.  London Fletcher was not just a good MLB, he was a GREAT MLB, just short of HOF consideration.  If he'd played on a good team, he would have had a shot at the HOF.  I'm not sure if London leaving was Donahoe or Marv, but either way, the Bills blew it WRT London Fletcher.  I hope they don't blow it by letting Edmunds go.