How valuable is Hyde really?

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

more valuable then this thread, for sure!

Einstein, why do you keep starting these troll threads?  Hyde is one of the leaders of this defense.  Enough of you.  I’d be much more forward with my comments if the mods would allow it.  You’re not a Bills fan.  

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Tre White hasn’t played either…does that mean he’s not valuable?

 

I think this is an important rhetorical reply to the OP. 

 

The consistently ELITE performance of the Bills secondary/pass defense since McD's and Frazier's arrivals, including, mostly, but not at all limited to the presence of specific players such as Hyde, Poyer, and White, makes it really difficult to parse out the individual values OF those specific players. 

 

The Bills under McD have become this perfect incubator of consistent pass defense, mostly independent of pass rush and run defense. Defensive performance is statistically less predictable YoY than offensive performance. Yet somehow the Bills pass D under McD has been pretty damned consistently awesome. It MUST be some righteous combination of coaching and personnel, pointing most prominently to McD, Frazier, and Butler on the coaching side, and Hyde, Poyer, and White on the personnel side. We've seen other even unlikelier secondary players exceed expectations and grow into solid starters under this regime. 

 

Smart money says that NO SINGLE SECONDARY PLAYER IS SINGULARLY INVALUABLE in this defense. But it would be foolish ignore the importance of a foundational guy like Micah Hyde, the FIRST player targeted by McD upon his arrival, who possesses such underrated athleticism and rare savvy and flexibility. Poyer was brought in soon after. These guys were targeted, as was Tre White. All smart, devoted, sneakily athletic talents. Hopefully Damar Hamlin and Dane Jackson continue to show how well fit this same mold. And of course Taron Johnson is unquestionably awesome at this point. So integral to this defense's design. 

 

[Einstein]

29 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Better question, how much of that WOULD be done by a cheaper model?

 

 

 

It’s the same question.

 

2 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Einstein, why do you keep starting these troll threads?  Hyde is one of the leaders of this defense.  Enough of you.  I’d be much more forward with my comments if the mods would allow it.  You’re not a Bills fan.  

 

It’s a bummer that my opinions bother you so. Be that as it is, feel free to block me. That way you won’t see my opinions any longer.

 

Go to Account > Ignored Users > Enter My Username > Click Add User

 

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Edited October 26, 2022 by Einstein

[machine gun kelly]

3 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

I think this is an important rhetorical reply to the OP. 

 

The consistently ELITE performance of the Bills secondary/pass defense since McD's and Frazier's arrivals, including, mostly, but not at all limited to the presence of specific players such as Hyde, Poyer, and White, makes it really difficult to parse out the individual values OF those specific players. 

 

The Bills under McD have become this perfect incubator of consistent pass defense, mostly independent of pass rush and run defense. Defensive performance is statistically less predictable YoY than offensive performance. Yet somehow the Bills pass D under McD has been pretty damned consistently awesome. It MUST be some righteous combination of coaching and personnel, pointing most prominently to McD, Frazier, and Butler on the coaching side, and Hyde, Poyer, and White on the personnel side. We've seen other even unlikelier secondary players exceed expectations and grow into solid starters under this regime. 

 

Smart money says that NO SINGLE SECONDARY PLAYER IS SINGULARLY INVALUABLE in this defense. But it would be foolish ignore the importance of a foundational guy like Micah Hyde, the FIRST player targeted by McD upon his arrival, who possesses such underrated athleticism and rare savvy and flexibility. Poyer was brought in soon after. These guys were targeted, as was Tre White. All smart, devoted, sneakily athletic talents. Hopefully Damar Hamlin and Dane Jackson continue to show how well fit this same mold. And of course Taron Johnson is unquestionably awesome at this point. So integral to this defense's design. 

 

What an eloquent response Noggin.  You never cease to impress.

 

Have a good night brother.

[Protocal69]

I think people forget how bad our defense was when McD 1st got here in 2017. We had some good games but we also had some laughers especially on run defense. The games that really stick out was the Saints game and Patroits games in 2017

 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

You can designate him a post June 1 cut and that Dead cap is 3.5 for next year and 2024.  Or you can convert his base to signing bonus, then add a couple of voidable years to his contract, allowing the hit to be kicked down the line.

 

Great point.

[Einstein]

13 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Smart money says that NO SINGLE SECONDARY PLAYER IS SINGULARLY INVALUABLE in this defense.

 

Bingo.

 

13 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

But it would be foolish ignore the importance of a foundational guy like Micah Hyde, the FIRST player targeted by McD upon his arrival

 

Yes - 26.5 year old Hyde was targeted as a foundational guy by McDermott half a decade ago.

 

Not soon-to-be 32 year old Hyde, half a decade later.

[JoPoy88]

44 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

How much of that which he has done could not be done by a cheaper model?

you really need to lurk more and post less. People are giving you specific answers and concrete examples and your counter is this. How is anyone supposed to answer this? “Cheaper model”? What does that even mean man. it’s so vague it’s nonsensical. You know very, very little about football and yet can’t stop talking about it, to everyone’s dismay.

[Scott7975]

42 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

See this proves that you have a really narrow view of football. This explains a lot of your posting history. But sure I'll spell it out for you. The game changing plays that Hyde makes are the ones that you don't see because he takes them away. How many times a week do we see an NFL offense score a long TD on a completely blown coverage? I can tell you how many times we've seen it in the Hyde/Poyer era - once. I remember it distinctly because it was so unusual. It was the Ravens game in Allen's 2nd year and I think it was one of their TEs who ended up completely wide open downfield for an easy walk in TD. That's it. The sort of play that happens multiple times a week throughout the NFL has happened once in 5 years here.

 

The first game we are without Hyde this year and the Dolphins convert a 3rd and 22 on a deep pass at a critical moment of the game. Earlier they score a red zone TD on a play that our safeties rarely give up. Against the Chiefs, Hamlin misses a tackle and a comedy of errors leads to a 41 yard TD from the TikTok dancer. Those are game changing plays that Hyde takes away. But in your mind game changing plays can only be interceptions in the endzone in the playoffs.

 

Please think before you post.

 

 

I was going to post something but this pretty much says it all. 

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It’s the same question.

 

 

It’s a bummer that my opinions bother you so. Be that as it is, feel free to block me. That way you won’t see my opinions any longer.

 

Go to Account > Ignored Users > Enter My Username > Click Add User

 

.

They bother everyone.  

[Einstein]

9 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

you really need to lurk more and post less. People are giving you specific answers and concrete examples and your counter is this. How is anyone supposed to answer this? “Cheaper model”? What does that even mean man. it’s so vague it’s nonsensical. You know very, very little about football and yet can’t stop talking about it, to everyone’s dismay.

 

“Any fool can know, the point is to understand” - Albert Einstein

 

The single worst part of sport discussion forums is groupthink.

 

On this forum, groupthink coincides with an attack on anyone that gives even the slightest criticism of a current starter, coach, owner, or anyone affiliated with the team.

 

There is no room for understanding, predicting, analyzing and speaking truth to potentials departures. All room is taken up by the “knowing” crowd - those that “know” that another poster is wrong, should post less, etc. Your post above, in a nutshell.

 

Prior to the onslaught of “knowers” bashing my thread, several people had agreed with it. One deleted their post (they were one of the first responses), and another edited their post to say something different. This is because they don’t want to go against the crowd. Groupthink.

 

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Edited October 26, 2022 by Einstein

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

See this proves that you have a really narrow view of football. But sure I'll spell it out for you.

 

Great posts always start with an insult. Let’s see if i’m right.

 

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

How many times a week do we see an NFL offense score a long TD on a completely blown coverage? I can tell you how many times we've seen it in the Hyde/Poyer era - once.

 

How many times have we seen it since Hyde has been out? Zero times.

 

You mention 3rd and 22 but that was not a “completely blown coverage”. Our defenders were barely a split second late. So are we talking about completely blown coverages or just long plays that we were in position to stop but didn’t?

 

Because if it’s the latter, then there are plenty of examples of those type of plays our defense has given up the last few years. I could start with Hail Murray and go on from there.

 

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

The sort of play that happens multiple times a week throughout the NFL has happened once in 5 years here.

 

And hasn’t happened since Hyde has been out.

 

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Against the Chiefs, Hamlin misses a tackle and a comedy of errors leads to a 41 yard TD from the TikTok dancer. Those are game changing plays that Hyde takes away.

 

You don’t remember Hill running right past Hyde with 2 minutes left in the KC game last year?

 

I may never forget that “douces” sign be put up with his two fingers as he entered the endzone.

 

I am not pointing this out in an effort to say that Hyde is a bad player. Not at all. I’m simply pointing out that defensive breakdowns against the Chiefs offense is nothing new to this Bills defense (even with Hyde).

 

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Please think before you post.

 

 

I could say the same.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Einstein

[Boatdrinks]

Seems more like an offseason type topic than an October thread for a team with Super Bowl aspirations. 

[JoPoy88]

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

“Any fool can know, the point is to understand” - Albert Einstein

 

The single worst part of sport discussion forums is groupthink.

 

On this forum, groupthink coincides with an attack on anyone that gives even the slightest criticism of a current starter, coach, owner, or anyone affiliated with the team.

 

There is no room for understanding, predicting, analyzing and speaking truth to potentials departures. All room is taken up by the “knowing” crowd - those that “know” that another poster is wrong, should post less, etc. Your post above, in a nutshell.

 

Prior to the onslaught of “knowers” bashing my thread, several people had agreed with it. One deleted their post (they were one of the first responses), and another edited their post to say something different. This is because they don’t want to go against the crowd. Groupthink.

 

.

Ah yes, we’re all sheeple, oh wise one.

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Our defenders were barely a split second left.

 

Oh is that all? A split second? That must be nothing in the NFL.

 

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

You apparently don’t remember Hill running right past Hyde with 2 minutes left in the KC game last year.

 

Yeah, Tyreek Hill speeding by the defense is the same thing as Juju Smith-Schuster breaking a tackle. Good point.

 

Honestly man everyone here knows your shtick. You're an anti-homer. Where some stretch facts to make positive points, you stretch facts to make negative points. It would be tolerable if you contained it to posts but you have to go and make a new thread every day and accuse the board of "groupthink" because we see through your crap.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by HappyDays

[machine gun kelly]

Einstein, you’re a troll, we’re onto Cincinatti.  
 

See we as Bills fans don’t want group think, but we also can sniff a Jets, Fish, or Pats troll a mile away.  You’re not worth my time.  Enjoy losing with you’re team.  Real Bills fans will complain about real issues and it becomes apparent quickly.  They actually care about our team.

 

You don’t.  Don’t worry, I’ll only respond to you’re threads to let others know youre a Troll moving forward..  they can decide to respond,

Guys, stop responding to this troll.  Mods, please do something.  If it were not this obvious, I’d understand.  He’s probably Jets 2020 of you guys remember that nightmare.

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Oh is that all? A split second? That must be nothing in the NFL.

 

I guess you would need to re-define what you’re talking about. You said “completely blown coverages”.

 

Then you mention 3rd and 22 but that was not a “completely blown coverage”. Not at all.

 

So are we talking about completely blown coverages or just long plays that we were in position to stop but didn’t?

 

Because if it’s the latter, then there are plenty of examples of those type of plays our defense has given up the last few years. I could start with Hail Murray and go on from there.

 

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

Yeah, Tyreek Hill speeding by the defense is the same thing as Juju Smith-Schuster breaking a tackle. Good point.

 

Well, yeah. The Hill one was a bit more embarrassing though.

 

[Richard Noggin]

25 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It’s the same question.

 

 

It’s a bummer that my opinions bother you so. Be that as it is, feel free to block me. That way you won’t see my opinions any longer.

 

Go to Account > Ignored Users > Enter My Username > Click Add User

 

.

 

Whether or not I agree with your points, this post is pretty effing dooshey. Arrogance and belligerence are like the worst.

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Einstein, you’re a troll, we’re onto Cincinatti.  
 

See we as Bills fans don’t want group think, but we also can sniff a Jets, Fish, or Pats troll a mile away.  You’re not worth my time.  Enjoy losing with you’re team.  Real Bills fans will complain about real issues and it becomes apparent quickly.  They actually care about our team.

 

You don’t.  Don’t worry, I’ll only respond to you’re threads to let others know youre a Troll moving forward..  they can decide to respond,

Guys, stop responding to this troll.  Mods, please do something.  If it were not this obvious, I’d understand.  He’s probably Jets 2020 of you guys remember that nightmare.

 

I see from your profile that you are in Tampa.

 

I have a vacation home in St Pete. I go to the Bills Bar called Buffalo Charlie’s in Dunedin.

 

Feel free to join me some week for a game. Warning, you’ll probably be confused by my Bills tattoo while simultaneously trying to rationalize that i’m a fan of another team.

 

Ps, here is me at the Titans game watching Allen throw a bomb to Diggs. Posted from my Bills twitter account where the goal is to give away free Bills tickets to kids and people who can’t afford to go. It’s all part of my Jets/Fins/Pats fan scheme. Obviously.

 

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Edited October 26, 2022 by Einstein

[Mike in Horseheads]

3 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 So, so far this month I have learned we don't need Hyde or White. Learning alot this October.😂

 

 

Wait till November when we we don't need Allen or Diggs either