How valuable is Hyde really?

[Nephilim17]

I really like Hyde and Poyer (not their ages for a long-term extension, however) but this year is showing me that a dominant line can make a young and experienced secondary look pretty good.

 

If we have limited dollars going forward, with this coaching, I want the money mostly spent wisely on the D-line, interior and edge. I think one veteran outside cornerback and one veteran safety can get the job done with some younger players. 

 

I'm not advocating dumping Hyde, just saying that with a franchise QB we will be forced to compromise down the line and that's where I would make compromises. At least with this coaching staff.

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

I really like Hyde and Poyer (not their ages for a long-term extension, however) but this year is showing me that a dominant line can make a young and experienced secondary look pretty good.

 

If we have limited dollars going forward, with this coaching, I want the money mostly spent wisely on the D-line, interior and edge. I think one veteran outside cornerback and one veteran safety can get the job done with some younger players. 

 

I'm not advocating dumping Hyde, just saying that with a franchise QB we will be forced to compromise down the line and that's where I would make compromises. At least with this coaching staff.

What about those seasons when we had a top pass defense without that dominant line? Did our veteran secondary make those non dominant D lines look better? 

[The Wiz]

32 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

What game changing plays in critical moments has Hyde made?

 

NE interception in playoffs? How many others?

Better question, what game changing plays were they burnt or exposed since joining the Bills?

 

And to answer yours, the kick-6 Hyde had was probably the last one that was critical.   Last one that wasn't a typical play that matter that we all remember anyways. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by The Wiz

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

17 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Poyer (and Hyde to a lesser extent) is a ball hawk unlike the guys we have backing them up. Turnovers win games. Some guys just have a knack for it. Poyer has 4 picks. How many does Hamlin or Johnson have? And who cares that they were backups? Players can’t improve themselves and fit better in a different system / scheme? Hamlin & Johnson are serviceable, but Poyer & Hyde have single-handedly won us games. Our front 7 is among the best in the league and I want my safeties to take full advantage of every forced throw, tipped pass, etc. 

 

Don’t get me wrong. I agree with this. That’s why I said both are great and very opportunistic.

 

Hamlin and Johnson are not as good, and they probably can’t get the 2-5 picks that Hyde and Poyer get on average each year. But it seems like these backups can play disciplined in our scheme. 

[Mojo44]

9 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Is this the extent of your understanding of how various players can impact games? Because if it is, then I think you have a lot to learn. For instance, how many game changing plays has Hyde made by changing a QB’s pre or post snap decision? How many routes has he altered? How many times has an offense had to settle for less simply because Hyde didn’t give it any thing more? 
 

Players like Hyde impact games in numerous ways that don’t show up on a stat sheet. 

This is exactly the point of why Hyde is so valuable. Well stated post! I would just add one other example: how many times has he been in the right place in coverage so that a quarterback can’t make the throw resulting in a coverage sack?

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

Since Hyde has been out, our defense has given up 16 points per game. More impressively, they gave up only 20 to the high powered Chiefs.

 

🥵 I think you can make the argument that the Bills would have beaten the Dolphins with Hyde playing - that 3rd and 22(?) pass to Hill likely doesn’t happen. But then again, it may not have happened with Poyer playing. They were both out that game.

 

👉  I am certainly not saying we are better without Hyde… but I am asking, how much worse are we really? And does extending (or going into a contract year at $11M cap hit) worth not having a slight drop in quality?

 

Could we trade him for a draft asset?

 

💰 We have a potential “out” with his contact this off-season. It would save us about $4 million in cap space ($11M cap savings minus $7M in dead cap).

 

Hamlin & Johnson combined account for 1/5th of Hyde’s cap hit next year.

 

Poyer is 115 days younger than Hyde. If we had to pick one safety to keep, I think I may lean toward Poyer over Hyde.

 

Go Bills.

 

 

 

 

 

How are you going to trade a guy who may never play again due to injury?

 

And he's very very valuable at safety, though the replacements are doing a very solid job. This defense as a whole is doing a terrific  job. They're getting by without Hyde because the rest of them are so terrific, particularly the front seven this year. And they're getting by without White for the same reason.

 

Both White and Hyde are terrific, both very valuable.

 

 

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

What game changing plays in critical moments has Hyde made?

 

NE interception in playoffs? How many others?

 

 

5 INTs in 2021.

 

Tied with Poyer for the lead among all safeties. 

 

Ridiculous question.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

46 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Is this the extent of your understanding of how various players can impact games? Because if it is, then I think you have a lot to learn. For instance, how many game changing plays has Hyde made by changing a QB’s pre or post snap decision? How many routes has he altered? How many times has an offense had to settle for less simply because Hyde didn’t give it any thing more? 
 

Players like Hyde impact games in numerous ways that don’t show up on a stat sheet. 

 

 

 

Yup. This.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Thurman#1

[TBBills Fan]

During the draught it was hard to tell which posters were just pissed off and fed up and which were just trolls.  

 

Now that we are an elite TEAM, it's much easier to tell the difference

[Jauronimo]

No more threads!

[Einstein]

46 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

It's an interesting topic, really about how and what will provide most value on this team with available cap space.

 

It goes without saying that Micah is an allpro player and leader/person.  However, the way our defense operates (and ability for our coaches to scheme success for our secondary), I still think the front 4 (and LBs) is where to put the $$.  

 

1. Von and improved DT play: this has more than replaced the loss of Micah, and if I'm building a team I continue to put the $ into this front 4.

 

2. LB play (and Taron): Milano and Tremaine have been outstanding, not many better duos in the NFL...especially important for a team playing nickle.  Taron Johnsons won't stand out on stats, but he's having a great year, consistent in coverage and tackling.

 

Beane has put alot of resources into the DL in past years, this year seems to finally be the one that's paying off.  Going forward, you keep the focus there and giving Josh more weapons/improved OL.  As much as it's nice to have a duo of all pro safeties, QB DE WR CB OL will continue to be the most critical/inpactful positions.

 

How much of that which he has done could not be done by a cheaper model?

[Sestak4ever]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

How are you going to trade a guy who may never play again due to injury?

 

And he's very very valuable at safety, though the replacements are doing a very solid job. This defense as a whole is doing a terrific  job. They're getting by without Hyde because the rest of them are so terrific, particularly the front seven this year. And they're getting by without White for the same reason.

 

Both White and Hyde are terrific, both very valuable.

Hyde is a team leader and has been for years. I think he has helped Poyer become the player he is. Hyde plays an extremely intelligent game and will probably end up on the wall one day. One of the very best off-season signings in Bills history and one of the best safeties in the game.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

No more threads!

 

 I would counter with, more threads!! Where else are you going to see such bad takes? He's currently got 2 up near the top of the 1st page, but I believe he's been holding back on us. I know there's a hundred more bad takes just dying to come out.

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

What game changing plays in critical moments has Hyde made?

 

NE interception in playoffs? How many others?

 

See this proves that you have a really narrow view of football. This explains a lot of your posting history. But sure I'll spell it out for you. The game changing plays that Hyde makes are the ones that you don't see because he takes them away. How many times a week do we see an NFL offense score a long TD on a completely blown coverage? I can tell you how many times we've seen it in the Hyde/Poyer era - once. I remember it distinctly because it was so unusual. It was the Ravens game in Allen's 2nd year and I think it was one of their TEs who ended up completely wide open downfield for an easy walk in TD. That's it. The sort of play that happens multiple times a week throughout the NFL has happened once in 5 years here.

 

The first game we are without Hyde this year and the Dolphins convert a 3rd and 22 on a deep pass at a critical moment of the game. Earlier they score a red zone TD on a play that our safeties rarely give up. Against the Chiefs, Hamlin misses a tackle and a comedy of errors leads to a 41 yard TD from the TikTok dancer. Those are game changing plays that Hyde takes away. But in your mind game changing plays can only be interceptions in the endzone in the playoffs.

 

Please think before you post.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by HappyDays

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

How much of that which he has done could not be done by a cheaper model?

 

 Better question, how much of that WOULD be done by a cheaper model?

 

 

[newcam2012]

6 minutes ago, Sestak4ever said:

Hyde is a team leader and has been for years. I think he has helped Poyer become the player he is. Hyde plays an extremely intelligent game and will probably end up on the wall one day. One of the very best off-season signings in Bills history and one of the best safeties in the game.

Agree 100%. Right now, it's not super clear how much his impact or lack of is having. However, come playoff and if we meet the Chiefs his impact will really be missed. Hyde is a stud. You can't replace what he does and what he means to the team. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

See this proves that you have a really narrow view of football. This explains a lot of your posting history. But sure I'll spell it out for you. The game changing plays that Hyde makes are the ones that you don't see because he takes them away. How many times a week do we see an NFL offense score a long TD on a completely blown coverage? I can tell you how many times we've seen it in the Hyde/Poyer era - once. I remember it distinctly because it was so unusual. It was the Ravens game in Allen's 2nd year and I think it was one of their TEs who ended up completely wide open downfield for an easy walk in TD. That's it. The sort of play that happens multiple times a week throughout the NFL has happened once in 5 years here. The first game we are without Hyde this year and the Dolphins convert a 3rd and 22 on a deep pass at a critical moment of the game. Earlier they score a red zone TD on a play that our safeties rarely give up. Against the Chiefs, Hamlin misses a tackle and a comedy of errors leads to a 41 yard TD from the TikTok dancer. Those are game changing plays that Hyde takes away. But in your mind game changing plays can only be interceptions in the endzone in the playoffs.

 

Please think before you post.

 

 Far, far too advanced for him. Remember, if you can't see it and it's not shown on the TV broadcast did it even happen?

 

 

[Rc2catch]

For me, we have seen how far this defense can go with the elite secondary. It was close, but not enough. 
Now that the pass rush is so much better it covers for the lack of experienced talent on the back end. If the pass rush takes a week off I think we’d miss Hyde quite a bit. 
We have chatted on here for the last 2 years that we’d have to start moving on from these guys. 
I trust Beane and Mcdermott to make those tough calls of when to let them go. If I was forced to guess I would say Poyer is not here next year and it would be Hyde’s last season if he can come back healthy. I would not rule out moving on from both either. Money is about to be pretty tight. 
 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Rc2catch

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Far, far too advanced for him. Remember, if you can't see it and it's not shown on the TV broadcast did it even happen?

 

 

 

What's weird is that the plays we missed him on this year happened on the TV broadcast! There were replays and everything! I'm pretty sure the announcers talked about them!

 

But you know what they say, football isn't rocket science. Right Einstein?

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by HappyDays

[Nephilim17]

53 minutes ago, K-9 said:

What about those seasons when we had a top pass defense without that dominant line? Did our veteran secondary make those non dominant D lines look better? 

I never said we never had a good defense without a dominant line in recent years. But I do believe our defense in 2022 is the best it's ever been with McDermott.. And I'm not talking stats but the ability to beat great teams.

I said IF capital is limited, I would rather have one veteran (high-priced) safety and one veteran outside corner (high priced) and put the money into the D line than the having a secondary of high priced vets and not a lot of spending on the D line.

Do you really believe that's an unreasonable view? 

[Bangarang]

OP with another winner of a thread to add to the resume. 
 

Not every random thought deserves a thread.