How valuable is Hyde really?

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

If that is the case (and i’m not saying you’re wrong), then how valuable is he really?

 

How valuable is a player that 31 NFL teams would not trade even a 7th rounder for him?

 

How valuable is a player that 31 NFL teams would rather draft a guy they will likely cut, than trade for him?

To other teams he’s a 32 year old safety that would be new to the scheme and locker room with 1 year left on his contract and they would have to give up a rookie contract for.

 

To Buffalo, he’s a team captain that has been a building block all pro, locker room leader that knows this system like the back of his hand who is already under contract and that we won’t have to give up picks for. Cutting him after injury could have a somewhat negative effect within the teams core.  
 

This isn’t madden kid.  There’s more to it

 

 

 

 

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Please understand that accusing those who disagree with you of "groupthink" (not wanting to go against the crowd) shows similar bankruptcy of argument skill and data as a debating tactic to the "ad hominem".  (There's probably a catchy latin phrase for it, but I don't know it)

 

I think you missed the context of the point. They are not just “disagreeing”. They are insulting, questioning fanhood, mocking intelligence and more.

 

Its actually groupthink combined with pack behavior.

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

If that is the case (and i’m not saying you’re wrong), then how valuable is he really?

 

How valuable is a player that 31 NFL teams would not trade even a 7th rounder for him?

 

How valuable is a player that 31 NFL teams would rather draft a guy they will likely cut, than trade for him?

He's one half of what is often considered the best safety duo in the league.  Unless he's physically unable to play, he is unlikely to be cut next year despite your compelling arguments.  Sounds valuable to me.

 

What do you think the trade market looks like for Hamlin?  OR Jaquan?  Or a Jaquan Hamlin package?  Sounds like we should cut the entire secondary and start over by your logic. 

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, Einstein said:

Since Hyde has been out, our defense has given up 16 points per game. More impressively, they gave up only 20 to the high powered Chiefs.

 

 

Great point that since he's been out our defense has given up 16 points per game.

 

Weirdly, though, you forgot to include the fact that before he was out, our defense had given up 8.5 points per game. 

 

Meaning scoring against the defense has nearly doubled since Hyde is out. What a bizarre coincidence that you only mentioned the numbers afterwards. Can't think of any reason you might have left out those numbers from when he was playing.

[ColoradoBills]

Micah Hyde had neck surgery and is currently on IR.

His future in the NFL is uncertain at this point.

 

Most likely come March of next year will determine if he is capable of playing in the NFL.

If he isn't this whole thread is moot and Micah will retire.

 

On the other hand, he may be able to play and then it will be 2 options.

1.  He is completely cleared to play, and he is on the roster.

2.  He still is in recovery and will start the season on PUP.

 

Any fan speculation is useless until next spring.  I mean seriously, Micah, his doctors, his agent, Beane and McDermott can't even

consider what will happen with him until then.  These FACTS make this whole thread nothing but a troll job IMO.

[Einstein]

Just now, NewEra said:

To other teams he’s a 32 year old safety that would be new to the scheme and locker room with 1 year left on his contract and they would have to give up a rookie contract for.

 

And we should see him differently?

 

We should be the lone team that gives up a rookie contract for the 32 year old safety with 1 year left on his deal?

 

Im not so sure. I’m trying to see this from both sides and my opinion could certainly change as the season progresses but as of now…

[Einstein]

9 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Men, we’re onto Cincinatti.  Moving on.  Trolls will be trolls.

 

Offer stands 

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/243157-how-valuable-is-hyde-really/?do=findComment&comment=7986865

 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

All good posts start with an insult.

 

 

A 2 year extension that doesn’t put him in the top 20 of safeties money-wise is a “big” extension to you? I don’t personally see it that way. I think it was a moderate extension that gives them an out after 2 years.

 

 

$7M in dead cap is not a lot. It is offset by regaining $11M in cap space. They save money by trading or cutting him, despite the dead cap.

 

This is called an “out” clause in the NFL and the Bills obviously structured it that way for a reason.

 

They also only gave him a 2 year deal for a reason.

 

 

I ignored it just like I “ignore” the fact that Hyde’s middle name is Richmond. It’s irrelevant to the discussion for all the reasons I listed above.

 

 

 

 

Nah, very few good posts start with an insult. But some posts are so bad there's not really another reasonable way to start. Yours have been consistently awful.

 

A two-year $19M extension? With $15M of the $19M guaranteed? For a safety? A 30 year-old safety? 

 

Duh! Of course this is a major commitment.

 

"$7M in dead cap is not a lot," you say. Again, just stupid. $7m dead money for a safety ... in the LAST year of his contract ... is really big. Minkah Fitzpatrick's dead money in the last year of his contract is $3.5M. Derwin James, the highest-paid safety in the league by AAV has $7.1M dead money in the last year of his contract, and he'll be 31, younger than Hyde would be in the last year of his. Jamal Adams in his last year has $7.1M and he'll be 30. Harrison Smith is $3.9M. Justin Smith is $3.7M.

 

And those are the five highest-paid safeties in the league. Again, just purely block-headed to argue $7M isn't an awful lot of dead money in the last year of a safety's contract. It absolutely is.

 

And no, it's not called an "'out' clause," as you claim. It's not a clause, Einstein. Yes, it's called an out. And you seem to completely misunderstand it. Every team has an out on every player every year. The question is how punitive it would be for the team to exercise the out. And Hyde's out is really punitive.

 

A player having a dead cap figure more than twice as high as the amount the team would save under the cap is painful. For the team. Yeah, this is an out. But some are more painful than others for the team to swallow. This would be very painful for the Bills. They'd essentially be paying $7M for the privilege of saving $3M.  That's not something a team looks to do.

 

Compare that to how painful it would be for those five players I noted above, arguably the best safeties in the league. It'd be much less painful for their teams to cut them before the last year of the contract.

 

Last year of Derwin James' contract, age 30:  Dead cap $7.1 M, but they'd save $17.5M. Paying $7.1M for the privilege of saving $17.5M.

 

Last year of Minkah Pitzpatrick's contract, age 30:  $3.5M dead cap, but they'd save $17.6M. Paying $3.5M dead cap for the privilege of saving $17.6M.

 

Last year of Jamal Adams' contract, age 30: $7.1M dead cap, but they'd save $17.5M salary and a $3.1M option bonus. See how this works? They cut these guys before the last year of their contract and the team gets a massive benefit. Same for Harrison Smith. Justin Simmons' contract is slightly less so. His dead cap would be $3.7M and the team would only save $14.5M. 

 

Get it?

 

These are the five highest-paid safeties, and it would be much less painful to cut them in their last year than it would be for the Bills to cut Hyde at age 32, older than any of these others.

 

They love the guy. 

 

And yes they gave him a two-year deal for a reason, Einstein. The reason being he's getting older and they didn't want to get too far ahead of themselves for an older guy.

 

As for the last but problably not quite the most pathetic of your paragraphs, you say, "I ignored it just like I “ignore” the fact that Hyde’s middle name is Richmond. It’s irrelevant to the discussion for all the reasons I listed above." Funny how you didn't include any of what I said or what you said, so nobody could judge it's irrelevance. So let me do so, so people can actually look at it and see.

 

You said:   

 

11 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes - 26.5 year old Hyde was targeted as a foundational guy by McDermott half a decade ago.

 

Not soon-to-be 32 year old Hyde, half a decade later.

 

 

I said this:

 

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

They targeted him five years ago by bringing him in. Then they again targeted him before the 2021 season by giving him a big new contract extension through 2023. At age 30, they made it very clear that they wanted him through 2023 in the most obvious and public way, by giving him a contract that even in the last year, 2023, would have cost $7M in dead cap money to get rid of him. 

You ignore this because it doesn't suit your dumb argument.

 

 

That's not irrelevant. Just inconvenient for your dumb argument. 

 

What a maroon!

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Thurman#1

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I think you missed the context of the point. They are not just “disagreeing”. They are insulting, questioning fanhood, mocking intelligence and more.

 

Its actually groupthink combined with pack behavior.

Or maybe we just don’t like you

[nedboy7]

16 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

If that is the case (and i’m not saying you’re wrong), then how valuable is he really?

 

How valuable is a player that 31 NFL teams would not trade even a 7th rounder for him?

 

How valuable is a player that 31 NFL teams would rather draft a guy they will likely cut, than trade for him?

 

LOL.  I think you made your point.  You seem irritated you aren't leading this groupthink. 

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Nah, very few good posts start with an insult. But some posts are so bad there's not really another reasonable way to start.

 

You go about life thinking that if someone has an opinion that is “so bad” (which is just another way to say that it is different than what you think), then you should insult that person?

 

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

A two-year $19M extension? With $15M of the $19M guaranteed? For a safety? A 30 year-old safety? 

 

Those numbers made him the 22nd paid safety in contract value.

 

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Duh! Of course this is a major commitment.

 

It’s actually not. 

 

Not even for his age. Harrison Smith at 32 y/on has a larger contract. So does Tyrann Matthieu, and Quandre Diggs, and Jimmy Ward, etc.

 

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

"$7M in dead cap is not a lot," you say. Again, just stupid. $7m dead money for a safety ... in the LAST year of his contract ... is really big.

 

No it’s not. On a 2 year deal there is no way to avoid dead money other than making him a post June cut - which perhaps they will do. Then his dead money will reduce to $3.5M and we will save $7.5M.
 

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Minkah Fitzpatrick's dead money in the last year of his contract is $3.5M. Derwin James, the highest-paid safety in the league by AAV has $7.1M dead money in the last year of his contract, and he'll be 31, younger than Hyde would be in the last year of his. Jamal Adams in his last year has $7.1M and he'll be 30. Harrison Smith is $3.9M. Justin Smith is $3.7M.

 

Because none of these players have 2 year deals. Do you understand how the cap works and spreading cap hits over years?

 

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

And Hyde's out is really punitive.

 

A player having a dead cap figure more than twice as high as the amount the team would save under the cap is painful.

 

Something can’t be punitive when it saves you money.

 

It’s not a situation where the dead cap is $7M and they save $2M, so they are in the negative.

 

As it stands, they are POSITIVE $4M.

 

If they make him a post June cut, that positive increases to $7.5M.

[jkeerie]

14 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I don't know I like having him around.

 

 

Wallace was beaten badly that play.  Glad the Bills let him walk.

[Mike in Horseheads]

Jay Skurski

@JaySkurski

·

9m

Sean McDermott says Micah Hyde "carries so much influence as a leader on our football team." McDermott jokes that Hyde isn't interested in being a coach, per se, but it's clear he's going to be involved. McDermott doesn't rule out Hyde being on the sideline during games. #Bills

 

[Simon]

5 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Sean McDermott says Micah Hyde "carries so much influence as a leader on our football team." McDermott jokes that Hyde isn't interested in being a coach, per se, but it's clear he's going to be involved. McDermott doesn't rule out Hyde being on the sideline during games. #Bills

 

Seems like a good final word