mvbillsfan Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Seems like the Bills would be better off switching to 3-4 defense with the personel they have. No one has said anything about this. Looks like a real possibility. Also a 3-4 is more Cap friendly.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 ummm who would be our de's? Aaron schobel and chris kelsay would get killed from the de position in a 3-4 they're smallish types. Most 3'4 de's are between 290-300+ Also we know next to nothing about the true extent of our lb depth. Who do we play at the other ilb spot next to fletcher? Speaking of Fletcher I don't see many 5'9 lb's playing in a 3-4 defense. Most of your 3-4 mlbs are bigger guys. We don't have the peronel to run a 3-4, maybe as a every now and than defense, but we're built for a 4-3
MrLocke Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 I know GW is gone, but Gray came with him so I imagine Gray is 4-3 guy as well.
R. Rich Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 I like the 3-4 defense. Always did. I remember when the Bills ran it for many years before it was fashionable to do so. I also played in a 3-4 scheme in college. It's a lot of fun.
Ghost of BiB Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 I like the 3-4 defense. Always did. I remember when the Bills ran it for many years before it was fashionable to do so. I also played in a 3-4 scheme in college. It's a lot of fun. 338854[/snapback] I still think you should suit up, wing boy.
R. Rich Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 I still think you should suit up, wing boy. 338862[/snapback] Sigh. Not this again!
OBXBILLSFAN Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Denney would be our only DE who would be suited for it, and I'm not sure we have a good 4th LB; although I guess Haggan could move inside with Fletcher and Posey could go back to what made him so successful in Houston.
Ghost of BiB Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Sigh. Not this again! 338870[/snapback] I didn't say what KIND of suit, did I?
R. Rich Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Denney would be our only DE who would be suited for it, and I'm not sure we have a good 4th LB; although I guess Haggan could move inside with Fletcher and Posey could go back to what made him so successful in Houston. 338871[/snapback] Honestly, I think Schobel could do well in a 3-4. He wouldn't have a seamless transition, but I do think he could do it. When Schobel decides not to just rely on his speed around the corner and fine tunes his entire game, he'll be a guy who can thrive in either the 4-3 or the 3-4. As for the rest of them? Posey is, of course, better suited for the 3-4. Spikes plays like a 3-4 LB now. The difficulty would be finding someone to put inside w/ Fletch. You'd have to have someone who can help in coverage as well as stuff the run. Sam Adams might have the most trouble adjusting, as he'd be forced to take on more double teaming and would wear down even more, which has been his biggest problem the past couple seasons.
R. Rich Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 I didn't say what KIND of suit, did I? 338878[/snapback] Birthday?
Ghost of BiB Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Birthday? 338888[/snapback] You big tease, you...
rockpile Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Honestly, I think Schobel could do well in a 3-4. He wouldn't have a seamless transition, but I do think he could do it. When Schobel decides not to just rely on his speed around the corner and fine tunes his entire game, he'll be a guy who can thrive in either the 4-3 or the 3-4.338886[/snapback] This is a very key point. I really like Schobel, but he always seems to try to outrun the OL around the corner, so good offenses just LET him run outside and deep, as the pocket flows inward and forward, allowing either a run up the middle or ample time for the QB to pass. He needs to go to the school of BRUUUUUCE and work on that signature inside spin move. Sack City!
obie_wan Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Seems like the Bills would be better off switching to 3-4 defense with the personel they have. No one has said anything about this. Looks like a real possibility. Also a 3-4 is more Cap friendly. 338813[/snapback] sounds like a good plan except 1. None of the DTs on the roster can effectively play nose tackle. If a 3-4 was to be the base D, they should have drafted Vince Wilfork last year. 2. None of the DEs on the roster are big enough or strong enough to play the run in a 3-4. 3. Bills only have 2 starting caliber LBs on the roster. 4. Even if they found another LB, Fletcher is way too small to play in a 3-4 Bills do show 3-4 looks at times, which is all they can afford to do. They don't have the proper personnel to run the 3-4 as their base defense.
R. Rich Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 sounds like a good plan except 1. None of the DTs on the roster can effectively play nose tackle. If a 3-4 was to be the base D, they should have drafted Vince Wilfork last year. 2. None of the DEs on the roster are big enough or strong enough to play the run in a 3-4. 3. Bills only have 2 starting caliber LBs on the roster. 4. Even if they found another LB, Fletcher is way too small to play in a 3-4 Bills do show 3-4 looks at times, which is all they can afford to do. They don't have the proper personnel to run the 3-4 as their base defense. 338915[/snapback] Fletch could play in a 3-4 scheme. His compact size and quickenss work in his favor when shedding the blocks of interior OL. Now, would I like his chances in coverage as a middle 'backer in a 3-4? No.
Bill from NYC Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 This is a very key point. I really like Schobel, but he always seems to try to outrun the OL around the corner, so good offenses just LET him run outside and deep, as the pocket flows inward and forward, allowing either a run up the middle or ample time for the QB to pass. He needs to go to the school of BRUUUUUCE and work on that signature inside spin move. Sack City! 338904[/snapback] I couldn't agree more, but stunting and running inside of guys as huge as either PW of Big Sam can take about a month. Seriously, I saw AS try to stunt a couple of times and there was simply no place to go. I think that with a smaller DT (anybody is smaller than PW ), there WILL be more stunts by the DL. As for a 3/4, I think that Big Sam views himself as more of a pass rusher than one to strictly hold his ground in the middle. Wasn't this the topic of his dispute with Gray last season?
R. Rich Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 I think you're right, Bill. I know I wouldn't want to just put Sam in as a NT in a 3-4 and expect him to dominate.
Mark VI Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Couldn't stand the Walt Corey 3-4 D. Flashback 15 years. Jeff Wright at NT. The Giants kicking the crap out of our front 7 for 13 minutes of the 3rd quarter in SB XXV. Yeah...let's bring that back.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 I think posters are too caught up in whether a player has the appropriate body size or theoretical demographics to man a particular position. The key point for the Bills is can they play. Demographically it would be crazy to use a stork like Denney in pass protection even in the short zone. This seemed particularly true since he had problems bending properly as a rookie and could be easily countered by opponents taking away his power because he did not athletically use his body properly to maintain leverage when he got locked up. However, Denney proved teachable and the Bills retrained him to use his body properly. He is an athlete and a football player first and a DE second. Though he is not the traditional pass rush specialist a DE can be, he is very effective even in the middle zone on pass coverage (he has exhibited characteristics more like the true stork Ted Hendricks as a player). Denney works well in pass coverage in the run blitz. Even better, it means he is not being employed in a weaker area for him (pass rush) and he actually is being employed more in a stronger area for him (run D). I think London Fletcher is a player (it did not surprise me at all he took a dominant role in ST last year once MM decided to use starters on ST unlike GW). He is shorter than the traditional LB, but who cares if he leads the Bills in tackles. Think back to how we employed the 3-4 successfully in the past. A poster above makes the point we do not have a big body to play the NT role. Are you saying that Jeff Wright who played NT for the Bills for years in the 3-4 had a big body? I think not. Folks need to get caught up a lot less in whether a player has a particualr body type and ask more whether they are players who can pull off non-traditional roles. Denney has, Fletcher has and there is some potential that Schobel, Spikes or even Posey can. I see no sign the Bills are going to switch to the 3-4 as a base D, but it strikes me as the case of being because our D has been in the top 5 statistically for a couple of years running a 4-3. Why change?
R. Rich Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Couldn't stand the Walt Corey 3-4 D. Flashback 15 years. Jeff Wright at NT. The Giants kicking the crap out of our front 7 for 13 minutes of the 3rd quarter in SB XXV. Yeah...let's bring that back. 338952[/snapback] Corey's 3-4 was more read and react as opposed to the more attacking styles you see nowadays from the Steelers, Texans, and the hybrid the Pats run. It drove me nuts too, Mark.
Bill from NYC Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Couldn't stand the Walt Corey 3-4 D. Flashback 15 years. Jeff Wright at NT. The Giants kicking the crap out of our front 7 for 13 minutes of the 3rd quarter in SB XXV. Yeah...let's bring that back. 338952[/snapback] Obviously, Wright was way too small, but I DID like the Wade Phillips 3/4. The problem (as I recall) was that virtually all of our corners went down at once. After that, our linebackers were injured! Cowart, Covington, and Holocek seemed to drop at about the same time. People rave about GW and his defense, but Wade would be my first choice to be the DC if I were a headcoach/GM.
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