Tipped Balls are becoming an issue-thoughts as to why??

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

 

Defenses are making a concerted effort this year more than I've seen in years past of ensuring they establish the box. You saw this time and time again this past week with KC, but it's been happening all year long. The contain players (outside rusher) have been purposefully setting a really high box as to not allow Allen the opportunity to escape outside the pocket. These rushers have been rushing more of a contain path (more vertical upfield) than a true pass rush angle would put you in to collapse the pocket. Because of this most teams are making their Low Box players (any interior rusher) an automatic low gear player. Essentially telling those guys to try and push to collapse the interior of the pocket, but not working true pass rush moves until Allen steps up within the pocket. With these interior rushers essentially being read players at this point there are able to have clear line of sight to Allen and put themselves in a more advantageous position to allow them to get hands on low trajectory balls.

 

There were multiple times in the KC game Allen wanted to get outside the pocket, but because the high box player did such a good job of setting the box Allen could only step back up into the pocket, and was forced to deliver a ball from within it.

 

The scary thing for defenses must be that Allen would have likely panicked earlier in his career and ran into pressure or made a bad throw, now he simply just delivers a strike and moves the chains or dumps it down for 5-10 yards.

 

Must be super frustrating for DCs to play against him. No matter what you call you are more likely to be wrong than right against him.

 

I mean I guess that makes sense in regards to the tipped passes, but Allen can't be the only player in the NFL they do this against can he? Other QBs aren't having the same tipped ball issues.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Big Turk

[Shaw66]

11 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Again, most players have 4-6 tips, and in a combined 17 starts with Goff, Mariota and Brady they have 1 tipped ball between them on 570 attempts.  Herbert, last years leader with 17 has 9, 3 behind Allen and Mayfield.

 

Maybe some of these points are valid, but 12 tipped balls is too many no matter what the reason is, IMO.  He is on pace to shatter the NFL record of 23 set in 2006 with 34.

 

Could you imagine if a tipped ball ends up costing us a Super Bowl with Diggs wide open in the endzone?

Thanks for replying.  I hadn't focused very well on the numbers you or others had presented earlier.   I agree, those numbers really are outliers.  

 

I'd guess it's happening to Allen because teams are doing to him what I described that many teams are doing to all mobile QBS:   They're asking their d linemen to play more of a containment game, rushing within their lanes, going after sacks less aggressively and making it difficult for the QB to find running lanes.  Because they aren't getting to the QB as effectively doing that, they're told to make sure that their hands are up. 

 

So why is impacting Allen more than the others?   Well, maybe it's because the shorter QBs who are mobile always have had to worry about batted balls, because they couldn't see over the linemen - they've already developed the ability to find windows to throw the ball through.  Brees was masterful at it, Wilson had to do it, and it's probably the case that Murray, Jackson and Mahomes all have found it necessary from day one in the NFL to do it.   Allen didn't have to, because he could see over the line.  Now that d lines are changing their rushing technique and getting their hands up more often, Allen will have to make the same adjustment the others already have made.   Just a hunch.   

 

Whatever the cause, with Allen being such an outlier I'm sure that the coaches and Allen are addressing it. 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

11 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Maybe some of these points are valid, but 12 tipped balls is too many no matter what the reason is, IMO.  He is on pace to shatter the NFL record of 23 set in 2006 with 34.

Breaking the NFL record for tipped passes? Heck, I am worried that at this pace, sometime soon, EVERY SINGLE PASS Allen attempts will be tipped. Imagine how bad that will be for his completion %.  

[HoofHearted]

11 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

The scary thing for defenses must be that Allen would have likely panicked earlier in his career and ran into pressure or made a bad throw, now he simply just delivers a strike and moves the chains or dumps it down for 5-10 yards.

 

Must be super frustrating for DCs to play against him. No matter what you call you are more likely to be wrong than right against him.

 

I mean I guess that makes sense in regards to the tipped passes, but Allen can't be the only player in the NFL they do this against can he? Other QBs aren't having the same tipped ball issues.

 

No, there's definitely other mobile QBs who teams actively try to contain within the pocket. The low box technique is what stands out most with how teams are playing Allen specifically. Teams are so afraid to give up easy rush lanes to him that they are essentially just maintaining the pocket and waiting for Allen to make a decision before they work pass rush moves. It worked really well for KC. Baltimore tried to do the same type of thing from what I recall when they were only rushing four as well.

[ExiledInIllinois]

He's more accurate now.  Throwing in tighter windows.

 

=

 

More tips. 

[Solomon Grundy]

I HATE TIPPED BALLS 😎

[Big Turk]

Allen has only had 2 since week 6, having 14 for the year now....but it has come at a cost.  

 

It seems they are not throwing over the middle hardly at all, and I believe this may be part of the reason as to why.  Allen was having a lot of tips ion the middle of the line during the first 6 weeks, Dorsey has seemingly eliminated almost all throws to the middle of the field since then other than checkdowns, and it has hurt the offense, IMO.  Defenses know the Bills are basically only using the area from the numbers and outside it.

 

Need to get back to using the whole field.

 

[LabattBlue]

49 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Allen has only had 2 since week 6, having 14 for the year now....but it has come at a cost.  

 

It seems they are not throwing over the middle hardly at all, and I believe this may be part of the reason as to why.  Allen was having a lot of tips ion the middle of the line during the first 6 weeks, Dorsey has seemingly eliminated almost all throws to the middle of the field since then other than checkdowns, and it has hurt the offense, IMO.  Defenses know the Bills are basically only using the area from the numbers and outside it.

 

Need to get back to using the whole field.

 

Makes sense, and the lack of using the whole field could definitely be causing problems on offense.