Sideline TEMPERATURE Dolphins v Vikings

[HardyBoy]

1 hour ago, ToGoGo said:

The problem is very obvious. It's unsafe and unfair. The two teams were not playing in the same conditions. That was clear to see with how the Bills were dropping like flies.

 

I'm genuinely stunned and taken aback that people are not in full agreement that this is incredibly wrong and unethical. Amazing. 

 

It's what happens when genuine explanations are framed as excuses by a small number of people with a vested interest in ensuring people are punching down against what they perceive as an inferior other instead of realizing together that the deck is stacked. This is nothing new and I'm not saying Bills fans perceive Bills players as others, I'm saying the social conditioning of valid explanations being excuses no matter what is so prevalent and ingrained that it pokes it head out in some very weird places sometimes.

 

Make no illusions @ToGoGo, this is deeply ingrained stuff and you're only noticing it because this is so clearly a medical issue to you (and me as well), but I have to think we're not coming anywhere near noticing it in the majority of situations. 

 

Check out Bob Dylan's Only a Pawn in their Game, he says it way better than I ever could.

 

It's the bootstrap mentality at the extremes, with people not realizing the hypocrisy. How often do you actually get to see an argument to the extremes play out in real life and actually see how people respond to it? It's simultaneously fascinating and terrifying seeing the level of societal conditioning. 

 

"The Bills players should have just picked themselves up by their bootstraps, ya know? It was their own fault they didn't hydrate better, they must not care, bunch of losers all of them.

 

"What's that? You're saying the conditions were just at the edge of the bounds of what the human body can literally handle in terms of foundational scientific truths? Hogwash, there ya go with your excuses and you know what they say about excuses! They stink, by the bootstraps!!!"

 

It's basically the same thing as saying people who are working two full time minimum wage jobs and are spending three hours on public transportation to get there need to somehow work harder. Keep peeling back that onion though, and you're not going to have to get all too nuanced to actually realize how pervasive it is in just about everyone's way of thinking at least in some parts of the world (it's natural human nature, but amplified Manchurian Candidate style going back a really, really long time...like Hanging Gardens of Babylon long time at least I would think, it just happens a lot faster now with the internet, but maybe it can change in a positive way faster as a result as well). 

 

Shoot, Josh Allen is a great example of this and this takes literally nothing away from him. He is generationally talented and worked as hard as he possibly could to get where he is.

 

That said, the system was exposed as clearly lacking in recognizing talent outside the standard pipeline, and Josh Allen got extremely lucky. Does anyone think he would have been missed if he lived in the same zip code as Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers or Josh Rosen? Spare me the Tom Brady went through hardship too because of where he was drafted, he was the starting qb at Michigan.

 

I'll say it again. The system missed on who a lot of us believe will end up being the greatest quarterback of all time. Then, once he basically almost miraculously got a chance to get a scholarship and demonstrate his potential, this amazingly coachable kid was written off as a failure at what 20 or 21 with never having received adequate coaching.  For sure he never got elite nfl qb prep level coaching until he got to Wyoming, but probably not really until the Senior Bowl. Then he starts throwing with touch after a week, but the narrative was established by then for like 90% of people:

 

He was a failure, the worst qb prospect ever, a franchise killer.

 

How many other Josh Allens', in football, and other areas that did everything exactly the same as Josh did (going juco, sending emails, more than qualified, etc.), but never got that offer because of some flaw in the system's measurement? Forget being historically amazing in what they do, how about merely adequate and hugely valuable to an organization as a result.

 

Let's not make excuses for them though right? They just should have tried harder and they must not have cared enough, right? 

 

Really makes you wonder if the system failed here, or maybe the system worked exactly as designed...

 

But I'll stop making excuses. 

[ToGoGo]

31 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

It's what happens when genuine explanations are framed as excuses by a small number of people with a vested interest in ensuring people are punching down against what they perceive as an inferior other instead of realizing together that the deck is stacked. This is nothing new and I'm not saying Bills fans perceive Bills players as others, I'm saying the social conditioning of valid explanations being excuses no matter what is so prevalent and ingrained that it pokes it head out in some very weird places sometimes.

 

Make no illusions @ToGoGo, this is deeply ingrained stuff and you're only noticing it because this is so clearly a medical issue to you (and me as well), but I have to think we're not coming anywhere near noticing it in the majority of situations. 

 

Check out Bob Dylan's Only a Pawn in their Game, he says it way better than I ever could.

 

It's the bootstrap mentality at the extremes, with people not realizing the hypocrisy. How often do you actually get to see an argument to the extremes play out in real life and actually see how people respond to it? It's simultaneously fascinating and terrifying seeing the level of societal conditioning. 

 

"The Bills players should have just picked themselves up by their bootstraps, ya know? It was their own fault they didn't hydrate better, they must not care, bunch of losers all of them.

 

"What's that? You're saying the conditions were just at the edge of the bounds of what the human body can literally handle in terms of foundational scientific truths? Hogwash, there ya go with your excuses and you know what they say about excuses! They stink, by the bootstraps!!!"

 

It's basically the same thing as saying people who are working two full time minimum wage jobs and are spending three hours on public transportation to get there need to somehow work harder. Keep peeling back that onion though, and you're not going to have to get all too nuanced to actually realize how pervasive it is in just about everyone's way of thinking at least in some parts of the world (it's natural human nature, but amplified Manchurian Candidate style going back a really, really long time...like Hanging Gardens of Babylon long time at least I would think, it just happens a lot faster now with the internet, but maybe it can change in a positive way faster as a result as well). 

 

Shoot, Josh Allen is a great example of this and this takes literally nothing away from him. He is generationally talented and worked as hard as he possibly could to get where he is.

 

That said, the system was exposed as clearly lacking in recognizing talent outside the standard pipeline, and Josh Allen got extremely lucky. Does anyone think he would have been missed if he lived in the same zip code as Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers or Josh Rosen? Spare me the Tom Brady went through hardship too because of where he was drafted, he was the starting qb at Michigan.

 

I'll say it again. The system missed on who a lot of us believe will end up being the greatest quarterback of all time. Then, once he basically almost miraculously got a chance to get a scholarship and demonstrate his potential, this amazingly coachable kid was written off as a failure at what 20 or 21 with never having received adequate coaching.  For sure he never got elite nfl qb prep level coaching until he got to Wyoming, but probably not really until the Senior Bowl. Then he starts throwing with touch after a week, but the narrative was established by then for like 90% of people:

 

He was a failure, the worst qb prospect ever, a franchise killer.

 

How many other Josh Allens', in football, and other areas that did everything exactly the same as Josh did (going juco, sending emails, more than qualified, etc.), but never got that offer because of some flaw in the system's measurement? Forget being historically amazing in what they do, how about merely adequate and hugely valuable to an organization as a result.

 

Let's not make excuses for them though right? They just should have tried harder and they must not have cared enough, right? 

 

Really makes you wonder if the system failed here, or maybe the system worked exactly as designed...

 

But I'll stop making excuses. 

 

Bravo. Amazing brother.

 

You're my new favorite poster. 

 

The truth is an extremely small few can pull themselves up by their bootstraps the way Allen did. The best metaphor are plants breaking through the cement on sidewalks. Will power is the most powerful substance on the planet. 

 

But that doesn't make it OK to expect the same from everyone else. There is truth in "grow a pair and be a man" but there are limits for what you can expect from the majority. As always, BALANCE is a universal law. That's the master key lost in simplistic and dualistic arguments. Some call it "grey area" or "nuance" but it's about feeling around and finding that bullseye of truth. 

 

Regarding the Miami game, the will to win exerted in that game by Allen and others like Diggs was superhuman. It was to such a degree it seemed the universe began glitching (drops, throws hitting the dirt, missed snaps, etc.) at the most inopportune times. ALMOST like we weren't meant to win that game. 

 

So your reference to extremes is even more extreme than what you said because Allen and the Bills DID pull themselves up by their bootstraps in extreme conditions far beyond what the average NFL player can do, much less an average fan judging people with 1000x the mental fortitude they have. And yet they still fell short... 

 

And to add insult to injury, the narrative turned towards Tua being a potentially great QB. It's injustice, but as you said, a further mark on societal conditioning to keep everything shallow, and avoid the essence/truth of the situation until the right authority tells us to focus on it, in whatever way we are told to. 

 

In this case, all it would require is a report from a respected medical journal about the dangers of a Miami game towards opponent's players, followed by being picked up by a major media outlet for the naysayers in this thread to change their tune, and those on the fence to become outraged. 

 

But that wouldn't really solve the true problem here

[QLBillsFan]

It’s a player safety issue. The NFL should address it. As we know the Dolphins 🐬 are committed to player safety😂 💯!

[JoPoy88]

Were there any sightings or reports of Viking players having trouble or going down in the heat yesterday?

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, Bandito said:

 

But the Vikings won a 1pm game in Miami with it being extremely hot. Why did they not have issue with it, but the Bills did?

 

That is the point. No way the NFL steps in to change this as it has proven to not be the home field advantage you all claim it to be. 

They are pros … it’s any given Sunday 

 

what doesn’t change is that lots of football players have died of heat stroke in the last 25 years … it’s about safety not an advantage 

[Beast]

3 hours ago, Bandito said:

Ok? And the Bills have the snow to their advantage. Everyone has home field advantage in some way shape or form.

It snows more on the visitor side of the field than it does the Bills side at Highmark?

[scuba guy]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

I'm all for natural weather advantages, but the Dolphins stuff is getting to be over the top.

It is legitimately unsafe for athletes playing as hard as NFL players do to be sitting in 120-130 degree heat with full pads on.

At some point, someone's gonna die or have a serious medical episode due to the heat. It's beyond a fun little weather advantage at this point. It's dangerous.

Given the fact that Diggs had 2 ivs and Spencer brown was revesparastalsin on the side line from heat stroke 🥵.  I think we already saw life threatening conditions  😳 for the bills players.  It also took until half time in the ravens game for the bills players to get over it.

[Buffalo Junction]

3 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

The Pegulas should use their fracking experience to find a geothermal vent to build the new stadium in an orientation that it naturally heats the Bills' sideline in the sub-zero winter.  Watch the Fish fans hypocrites lose their crap about the "unfair advantage".

Could also double down and build a field level tunnel that creates an open channel from Lake Erie right down the visitors side and out of the stadium. It could potentially double the wind speed on the visitors side which would be brutal from late November through January. 🤷‍♂️ 

[FilthyBeast]

Who really cares, the Bills had no trouble winning there in previous years under similar conditions and this might be one of the few losses this team takes all year.

 

Also looking more and more like this was miami's superbowl considering they haven't won a game since beating us.

[Dopey]

3 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Dopey, NFL rules mandate if one side got heaters or for the matter coolers/fans, other side gets equal access to same  but they positioned the field in Miami so the Dolphins get natural shade and the visitors dont.

 

Every game in Miami in Sept and October should start at 4 if not a night game.

I live in Florida, I know about that. Here in Tallahassee, FSU has the same advantage. It happens in more stadiums than you know. 
Someone here mentioned the Vikings at least had an overcast day. Excuses, I say. 
I ain’t changing my mind. Seen it for 20 + years. Teams just need to deal with the heat, like Nov, Dec games in buffalo teams have to deal with freezing temps w wet heavy snow. 

[Dopey]

3 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Its not about winning or losing. The bills very nearly won too. Its just a stupid idea to have one shaded sideline and one not, and then say you cant have tents or any shade because we don't use it. 

IMO, no one complains until we are SB favorites. It’s been like this for quite a while guys. Teams look for any advantage. Like our visiting locker room, the cold, the wind, etc. 

Just sounds like a lot of 😭 to me. The Vikings sucked it up and won. 

[Watkins101]

3 hours ago, Bandito said:

Ok? And the Bills have the snow to their advantage. Everyone has home field advantage in some way shape or form.

The Bills have the advantage of being more used to the cold/snow because they are in NY.

The Dolphins have the advantage of being more used to the heat because they are in Florida.

The amount of snow/the cold is not different for either team, and so the bills only advantage is the experience dealing with it.

The Dolphins have a sideline that is significantly cooler than their opponents from the shade. They have the advantage of less heat, as well as more experience dealing with heat.

 

[Ya Digg?]

36 minutes ago, Bandito said:

 

But the Vikings won a 1pm game in Miami with it being extremely hot. Why did they not have issue with it, but the Bills did?

 

That is the point. No way the NFL steps in to change this as it has proven to not be the home field advantage you all claim it to be. 

Are you skipping everything everyone is saying to you intentionally?  Most people responding to you are saying that wasn't the only reason they lost but it is a HUGE disadvantage - to the point of it being potentially dangerous.  Why are you choosing to ignore what others are saying?  You don't think that temperatures at close to 120 degrees isn't dangerous?  Or it being 30+ degrees cooler on the other sideline as an unfair disadvantage?  

 

Read the comments before responding, that's all

[Dopey]

All of a sudden, Bills fans worry about this. This is NOT new. No one here brought up safety in the past.
 

[What a Tuel]

1 hour ago, Bandito said:

 

But the Vikings won a 1pm game in Miami with it being extremely hot. Why did they not have issue with it, but the Bills did?

 

That is the point. No way the NFL steps in to change this as it has proven to not be the home field advantage you all claim it to be. 

 

At this point you are just trolling.

 

The Bills almost won too, and no one is arguing they should change anything bc the bills lost.

 

People are arguing bc this advantage is stupid, dangerous, and not in the spirit of the game.

 

Plain and simple, if the damn stadium shades the home bench then the visitor bench should not be banned from bringing shade (small tents to cover their bench.

 

Edit: Also, this has not been an advantage for decades. The Stadium renovations that provided this advantage finished in 2016. So that is what? Between 12-16 September home games in the last 7 years? Subtract the games that weren't actually that hot or had decent cloud cover and we are talking single digit number of games that had this effect. This is why it hasn't been talked about.

 

All anyone is saying is allow some respite from the heat on the sideline for player safety before someone gets seriously injured or dies playing in 120 degree temparatures exerting huge amount of physical energy. Its going to be a tragedy if something isnt done.

Edited October 17, 2022 by What a Tuel

[Tim Tindale]

4 hours ago, Bandito said:

HA! And the Vikings won despite this. @Augie

Bills have only themselves to blame for losing in Miami

Um, give us Skylar Thompson and Teddy Bridgewater for 60 minutes and I’m guessing we would have found a way… 

[What a Tuel]

12 minutes ago, Dopey said:

All of a sudden, Bills fans worry about this. This is NOT new. No one here brought up safety in the past.
 

 

The renovations finished for the 2016 season. The advantage IS new and there are only a handful of home september games in the last 7 years in which weather was this brutal.

 

5 minutes ago, Bandito said:

It is not an advantage. If it was, the Dolphins would be undefeated at home. Instead, the Vikings won this past weekend and were not affected by it. Why can't you admit to the hypocrisy?

Why don't you see my point of if it is such an advantage, than how did Minnesota win yesterday? Stop avoiding my point.

 

You are a troll. You have to be. The win or loss is irrelavent dude. Why can't you see past that? Had we won, the same topic would have been brought up. Just like officiating in the KC game was brought up, but if we lost the KC game you guys would make the same stupid argument that we only talk about it because we lost. Get off that point because it isn't why it is a discussion.

Edited October 18, 2022 by What a Tuel

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, Dopey said:

All of a sudden, Bills fans worry about this. This is NOT new. No one here brought up safety in the past.
 

 

It’s pretty new. I put a link in earlier, but there was like a $500 mil renovation that ended in 2016. THAT added the shade for the home bench. Early in the season it is a farce to say “we didn’t use tents, so you can’t either”.  Look at the before and after, and tell me that is fair. 

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

The renovations finished for the 2016 season. The advantage IS new and there are only a handful of home september games in the last 7 years in which weather was this brutal.

 

I used to play tennis midday in SW Florida several times a week. Not every hot day is created equally. Some days I’m fine, a couple days later I wondered if I might die, so I quit. 

[Ya Digg?]

19 minutes ago, Bandito said:

It is not an advantage. If it was, the Dolphins would be undefeated at home. Instead, the Vikings won this past weekend and were not affected by it. Why can't you admit to the hypocrisy?

Why don't you see my point of if it is such an advantage, than how did Minnesota win yesterday? Stop avoiding my point.

Yeah because playing the third string QB really poses a real threat. Teams have been complaining about this situation for years, but since this is the first time you’ve heard about it then it must not be true.

You’re completely off your rocker if you think the temps had nothing to do with how the Bills played that day. But go ahead, keep going on this really weird crusade