Was it Allen or Daboll?

[djp14150]

3 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

I was one of those who thought it was all-Allen. In fact, in my view Allen carried Daboll all four years. However, looking at the astonishing reclamation going on in New York, it’s difficult to ignore the possibility that the Bills lucked out by having an all-time quarterback whisperer on staff when Allen arrived. Allen would have become great no matter who coached him, but possibly not this level of great. 

 

explaining the giants….

 

game 1 they have a close game against a rusty team ( see Steelers- bills game 1last yr) on the road. Itwas close they pull it out at the end.  If they played titans mid season they probably don’t win.

 

a difficult road game is a friendly neutral site game

 

they gain confidence by winning.  They came back from 3 4th quarter multi score deficits.  They doesn’t happen often.  That luck is going to run out.

 

e ery team has talent. Confidence is a dangerous factor that can drive a team to be competitive and successful.

 

then there is Jacksonville….in their 4 loses then had the lead in the game. 2 of the loses they had a late 4th quarter lead.  They can easily be 4-2 instead of 2-4.

 

the Raiders has lost all 4 games in the final few minutes where they either had the ball to get the lead late or they couldn’t defend them tying/ getting the lead late.  They could easily be 4-1 instead of 1-4

 

 

 

 

 

[Billz4ever]

3 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

I was one of those who thought it was all-Allen. In fact, in my view Allen carried Daboll all four years. However, looking at the astonishing reclamation going on in New York, it’s difficult to ignore the possibility that the Bills lucked out by having an all-time quarterback whisperer on staff when Allen arrived. Allen would have become great no matter who coached him, but possibly not this level of great. 

What? Then explain what he's doing with Dorsey.  We have an OC literally in his first year of play calling and Allen is torching defenses.  

 

Daniel Jones manages football games. Daboll is smart enough to know he doesn't have the QB in NY to do what he did in Buffalo with Josh. Josh can literally take over a game.  The two simply cannot be compared.

 

Everyone knew going into the draft that the Josh's ceiling was the stratosphere if he could mature, work on his accuracy, and make better decisions with the ball.  I attribute Josh's maturation more to Dorsey than Daboll. Dorsey played at an elite level in college and won a title, plus knew the offense inside and out.  Who else would be better to help a Rookie with raw talent like that more than Dorsey?

Edited October 17, 2022 by Billz4ever

[without a drought]

Is this real?

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

 

I think Daboll has made it a point to try and establish a culture like McDermott did and it appears as though he's been successful. 

 

 To answer the question it's Josh ****** Allen because I don't think Daboll is the best OC Allen has played for and he continues to noticeably improve this season. To be fair Josh would make any OC look really good, but Dorsey is better than Daboll in certain areas.

 

 One of those areas is finding ways to get Diggs the ball early and often. Last year when we would hear Diggs was being doubled, he would be a non-factor in the game. This year he's a factor in every game, Dorsey has been moving him around and finding ways to get him open. Daboll just didn't seem like he could do that.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Cheektowaga Chad]

What's happening in New York is similar to the first season of McDermott/beane here in Buffalo

 

Have a poor to average roster but game plan well enough to be in every game. Jones is the giants version of tyrod

 

[Doc]

Martindale was a huge get as DC.  And Saquon finally showing himself to be worthy of the 2nd overall pick. 

 

But the true test will be next year when Jones and Barkley will be UFA's.  They'll likely franchise Barkley, but will he be able to keep it up.  And who do they get at QB?

[LeGOATski]

Why does it always have to be either-or with some people?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

Why does it always have to be either-or with some people?

 

I know. I don't get it. Josh Allen is great. But the Daboll sucks narrative was tiresome when he was here. It was never true. And some people can't let go of it. 

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

I mean is Jones really that special that what the Giants are doing is telling you Daboll is a QB whisperer? He hasn’t thrown for over 2TDs or 217 yards all season. The Giants aren’t winning because Jones, they are winning with good defense and the best RB (comeback player of the year) in Barkley 

Jones stopped turning it over every third play

[Beck Water]

58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Yea Dak was bad in the opener. But I don't see any reason to expect that is going to continue rather than what he has done in the past.

 

A fair viewpoint.  Counterpoint would be 1) why was Dak struggling in the opener?  I thought it was O-line protection and WR not getting open quickly enough.  Has that changed?  2) After Kurt Warner broke his pinky finger, it really impacted him after he returned even though he had supposedly completed rehab in the off season.  He struggled with fumbling and it really torpedoed his career in StL.  Eventually he adjusted and returned to form playing for the Cardinals.   So Dak may come back full of piss and vinegar and ready to rumble, or he may take a bit to adjust.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Beck Water

[78thealltimegreat]

Considering what Dorsey is doing with Allen and he having never been an offensive coordinator before I’d say it’s obviously Josh. 

Also I’m sure Daboll taught Josh how to hurdle defenders and throw 40 yard missles off his back foot. 

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I really dislike this either/or type of thinking.  Allen is a generational QB and would be without Daboll, McD, Dorsey or Beane.  But he's also extremely fortunate in the sense of competing in the playoffs so soon and often to have landed in a situation with such stability.  Most rookie QBs go to bad teams that end up shuffling OCs, HCs and GMs until the franchise that drafted them isn't even the same franchise (Ship of Theseus, what what).

[clayboy54]

I read right here that Daboll was a failure at every job he ever had and that McD screwed the pooch by hiring him.

 

so, how can we be having this conversation?

[Steptide]

I'm happy for daboll and his success, but the giants have what I consider one decent win, and that was Baltimore yesterday. They've beat the titans(barely), panthers, bears and what seems to be a really bad green bay team. They have a pretty cake schedule, so I could see them winning 9 or 10 games this season. They just absolutely stink of the 2017 bills. Good for them though 

[mrags]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Jones stopped turning it over every third play

So because he still sucks and doesn’t put up any real numbers but doesn’t turn it over, Daboll is a stud coach. Makes sense 

[FireChans]

Just now, mrags said:

So because he still sucks and doesn’t put up any real numbers but doesn’t turn it over, Daboll is a stud coach. Makes sense 

So because the Giants are 5-1 and Daniel Jones is playing well compared to his baseline of being completely ***** terrible and they are, again, 5-1, Daboll is a stud coach.

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

I was one of those who thought it was all-Allen. In fact, in my view Allen carried Daboll all four years. However, looking at the astonishing reclamation going on in New York, it’s difficult to ignore the possibility that the Bills lucked out by having an all-time quarterback whisperer on staff when Allen arrived. Allen would have become great no matter who coached him, but possibly not this level of great. 

I’m trying to figure out why so many disagreed with your original post I think it’s entirely plausible just like Mahomes having read whenever he came into the league and being able to sit for a year before taking over as the starter in Kansas City sometimes it’s not just the talent sometimes it’s also the fit

[mrags]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

So because the Giants are 5-1 and Daniel Jones is playing well compared to his baseline of being completely ***** terrible and they are, again, 5-1, Daboll is a stud coach.

[Einstein's Dog]

42 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I'm happy for daboll and his success, but the giants have what I consider one decent win, and that was Baltimore yesterday. They've beat the titans(barely), panthers, bears and what seems to be a really bad green bay team. They have a pretty cake schedule, so I could see them winning 9 or 10 games this season. They just absolutely stink of the 2017 bills. Good for them though 

I am rooting for DaBoll too.  And while I'm happy for his good start, I fear it may not be the best thing for him long term.  Some of the reasons:

 

    1.  Inability to move Barkley.  I can't see the NYG moving Barkley prior to the deadline because NY would lynch him.  The area wants to believe they are a good team in the running for playoffs.  DaBoll can't do a fire sale on decent players to reconfigure the roster to his liking.  

 

    2.  Increased expectations.  This should have been his first year in a rebuild.  If NY goes 11-6 or 10-7 the fans will not want a rebuild.  And future years probably won't be as kind in terms of terrible teams and easy schedules.

 

There is the possibility that the good start might not be the best for DaBoll's future.

[Mrbojanglezs]

I don't know but don't like it because it will encourage another team to take a chance on Dorsey maybe after only 1 or 2 years