Was it Allen or Daboll?

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Two words....Don "Wink" Martindale.

 

NY Giants DC is doing a good job with that defense.

 

Daboll is doing is also doing a good job with the team as HC. Assistants are a big reason why teams play well or not.

Gotta wonder of ole Wink is being missed in Baltimore? 

 

Lets not forget that his OC is Mike Kafka who was the KC Chiefs QB coach.  

 

 

I heard Martindale is still enraged about his firing from Tic Tac Dough and is deciding to take it out on opposing offenses.

[Pags24]

More Allen.  Don't get me wrong, I like Daboll.  Josh and Daboll had a great relationship, it was a good fit.  But Dorsey is even better IMO

[somnus00]

The qualities that make a good head coach, aren't the qualities that make a good coordinator. NFL history if littered with great coordinators who made terrible head coaches. And you have great head coaches like Andy Reid who was never even a coordinator before becoming the head guy.

 

It is still very early, but Daboll may be a guy who is a better HC than he was OC.

[Freddie's Dead]

17 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Two words....Don "Wink" Martindale.

 

NY Giants DC is doing a good job with that defense.

 

Daboll is doing is also doing a good job with the team as HC. Assistants are a big reason why teams play well or not.

Gotta wonder if ole Wink is being missed in Baltimore? 

 

Gameshow is a huge reason for the NJG success this year.  That defense is gnarly.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Freddie's Dead

[RocCityRoller]

I think we tend to neglect the pretty poor coaching Josh Allen had before the NFL.

 

A small HS in rural CA. Not exactly a Prep School/ Academy that cranks out DI players and future pros

2 Years in a Junior College - not nearly the level of coaching of a power DI school or even a good DIII program.

2 Years Wyoming - a DI program, but average college DI program/ coaching

 

By the time Josh Allen reached the NFL he was a dry sponge for the high level X-Os. He had all the talent all along, but pretty poor coaching overall. Dabs does have a world of knowledge about offense and taught him everything he knew.

 

Many of us wanted Buffalo to bring in an aging B level QB with a good football mind to help mentor Allen. A lot of people on this board poo-pooed the suggestion. I think any person in any skilled trade benefits from having a strong mentor.

 

Fortunately Buffalo did bring in a load of mentors. Guys who were very good offensive QB minds, but didn't quite have the skills to succeed at the NFL.

Dorsey was an excellent DI Power program QB, but didn't quite have the skill set to execute at a high level at the NFL.

Derek Anderson (carved out a solid, but unspectacular career as a QB), Matt Barkley etc. All in that grouping.

 

Allen finally had high IQ football guys surrounding him and he soaked it all in. Credit to all.

 

Dabs checked his ego enough to allow the Dorsey/ Barkley etc to be brought in and help with the process.

It took a village and Allen just soaked it all in and has the IQ to learn it, and apply it.

 

This is without even mentioning Palmer and his work with Allen in his early offseasons to work on mechanics to make better use of his physical gifts.

Edited October 17, 2022 by RocCityRoller

[FilthyBeast]

Daboll obviously had a big part in JA17's development and where he is today, but you really have to wonder if this was inevitable no matter who Allen had coaching him.

 

What Daboll is doing with the Giants right now certainly warrants attention because he's taken a 4 win team from last year to 5-1 in their first six and at worse seem to be good wild card type of contender and their remaining schedule outside of 2 games with Philly and another in Dallas could produce a lot more wins. Easily the coach of the year if the season ended today though.

[US Egg]

Seems Jones might be capable of playing better QB. 
 

If Daboll gets to PO with him he’d be COTY and a QB guru.

 

He helped JA grow to Super ⭐️ Status. JA made JA.

Edited October 17, 2022 by I am the egg man

[Low Positive]

I wonder where the Giants would be if Bullock had hit the 47 yard FG at the end of the game in week 1. I think winning that game after Daboll went for two at then end to take the league changed the culture in NY more than anything. 

[GunnerBill]

The truth is always it's both. Obviously Allen is great. He isn't great "because" of Brian Daboll. But Dabes played a part and he can coach. The narrative he was a bum just riding Allen's coat tails was always whack. 

 

Josh is a great Quarterback. 

Brian Daboll is a good football coach. 

[DrDawkinstein]

I'm happy for both.

[Radar]

31 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

The things that Allen describes as seeing before and during plays is just remarkable...

 

Last week on the 98 yard TD to Davis, Allen said he noticed the safety was taking a bad angle on the double team and couldn't provide help so he knew Diggs would be open once he cleared the CB...

 

Yesterday, he talks about how he saw the underneath player on the throw to Knox and was trying to point for him to go back towards the middle of the endzone where there was a bunch of open space, but then decided to throw it to him and knew he had to put the ball over the underneath DB that was there and threw a perfectly placed laser about 2 inches over the DBs fingers when he jumped and it was perfectly placed to Knox where only he could catch it even with very good coverage on the play really...

 

It's like how the F do you see all that in real time, process it so fast and then have your physical talent match your mental processing to exactly do what you wanted to with the ball?

That's the difference between good and elite. Throwing the ball is a dime a dozen at this level. Seeing the field, reading the defenses in split seconds added to the physical ability......elite.

[BigAl2526]

Is it not possible that Daboll and Dorsey are great coaches and Allen is a great QB??  Heck, that might mean that McDermott and Beane are great at evaluating talent and hiring/drafting/signing the right people.

Edited October 18, 2022 by BigAl2526

[BuffaloBills1998]

53 minutes ago, mrags said:

I mean is Jones really that special that what the Giants are doing is telling you Daboll is a QB whisperer? He hasn’t thrown for over 2TDs or 217 yards all season. The Giants aren’t winning because Jones, they are winning with good defense and the best RB (comeback player of the year) in Barkley 

Daniel Jones stats so far 1,021 total passing yards 5 tds and 2 INTS. To put it nicely he’s a below average game manager at best. The real test will be when they draft a QB and Daboll has to develop him from the ground up. 

[Beck Water]

48 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Daboll may be one of the rare coaches who is a better HC than coordinator. We see the opposite all the time, so this is really interesting to see.

 

One of the things I thought was remarkable was Daboll's growth as a communicator during his time here.  If you go back and watch his pressers his first season vs. 2020 or 2021, you can see the growth.  I personally think McDermott may have sent him to Dale Carnegie or something - Dick Vermeil is said to have urged all his assistants to go so that wouldn't be too strange.

 

But I think while he's clearly got the team inspired and believing, a lot of Daboll's success comes with recruiting a top DC in Wink Martindale and a QB coach who was primed for the OC opportunity in Mike Kafka.

[C.Biscuit97]

Both. Allen was such a raw product. It seemed absolutely wild that a guy who wasn’t that great in Wyoming was gongn to be a nfl franchise qb. And he certainly wasn’t perfect right away. But he got to be with Daboll and the same offense for 4 years, which rarely happens in the nfl, much less for a young qb. Now, Allen has gotten to the point where he can almost make any coach look good. 
 

but they both deserve a ton of credit. The odds on the next Allen type prospect failing are still really high unless they get a special situation like we had. Also, Allen wasn’t forced to carry the team right away. 
 

it makes zero sense but somehow, the Buffalo Bills are a model franchise for developing a qb. Wild times.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

51 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

I was one of those who thought it was all-Allen. In fact, in my view Allen carried Daboll all four years. However, looking at the astonishing reclamation going on in New York, it’s difficult to ignore the possibility that the Bills lucked out by having an all-time quarterback whisperer on staff when Allen arrived. Allen would have become great no matter who coached him, but possibly not this level of great. 

I think the Bills are kind of like last year. 

 

This is certainly the best Allen ever. 

 

But the Bills have all sorts of smaller projects on the offense:

1. Shakir playing time verses McKenzie

2. Right Tackle if Spencer Brown is really hurt

3. 3rd-1, 4th-1 situations

4. James Cook integration, if any

5. Red Zone TD %

[Beck Water]

40 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Two words....Don "Wink" Martindale.

 

NY Giants DC is doing a good job with that defense.

 

Daboll is doing is also doing a good job with the team as HC. Assistants are a big reason why teams play well or not.

Gotta wonder if ole Wink is being missed in Baltimore?

 

Yeah, Wink was the "fall guy" for a disappointing season in 2021, and his departure seems to have made an uncharacteristically poor Harbaugh defense, and made it worse (or at least...not improved it).

[mrags]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Daniel Jones stats so far 1,021 total passing yards 5 tds and 2 INTS. To put it nicely he’s a below average game manager at best. The real test will be when they draft a QB and Daboll has to develop him from the ground up. 

Unfortunately for him, they are screwing up their draft position by winning meaningless games. They may not even make the playoffs. They have to contend with the Eagles and Cowboys in their division. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

But I think while he's clearly got the team inspired and believing, a lot of Daboll's success comes with recruiting a top DC in Wink Martindale and a QB coach who was primed for the OC opportunity in Mike Kafka.

 

He certainly nailed his first two coordinator hires which is one of the key things for a Head Coach to do. And then he didn't insist on calling plays the way a lot of these ego driven hotshots do.

 

He is a good coach, he knows what he is doing. He did a great job for the Bills and if he and Joe Schoen can find themselves a Quarterback (easier said than done, sure) they will bring the glory days back to that franchise. 

[london_bills]

1 hour ago, Charles Romes said:

I was one of those who thought it was all-Allen. In fact, in my view Allen carried Daboll all four years. However, looking at the astonishing reclamation going on in New York, it’s difficult to ignore the possibility that the Bills lucked out by having an all-time quarterback whisperer on staff when Allen arrived. Allen would have become great no matter who coached him, but possibly not this level of great. 

Don't forget Dorsey is doing really well. Number 1 in offence