Rubes Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 I don't remember that one - can you refresh my memory? 25696[/snapback] Looks like I have the clock slightly off, but the stat sheet reads: 2-5-NE27 (2:08) T.Brady sacked at NE 20 for -7 yards (R.Brock). FUMBLES (R.Brock), recovered by NE-C.Dillon at NE 19. C.Dillon to NE 19 for no gain (R.Brock). 3-13-NE19 (2:00) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete to D.Patten (I.Bashir). The second play is the one that should have been an easy pick, but the two Dolts collided on the play. For the record, Brady's last six pass attempts were: incomplete interception incomplete 20 yard gain (on 3rd and 9) sack/fumble incomplete (near INT) Mind you, I'm not really trying to dog Brady too much here other than to say he struggled some in crunch time, despite an overall outstanding game. I do think he's an excellent QB, just not quite as perfect as he seems to have become... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 I’d agree that there’s a NE player who’s the best at his position in the NFL, but it surely isn’t their QB. Even if you remove the subjective quarterbacking dynamics like quality of Oline, fit in the offensive system and quality of coaching, the stats just don’t bear out that Brady is anywhere near the best QB in the league. In fact, I’d say the stats tend to point to a guy who gets regularly bailed out of his red zone deficiencies by having perhaps the best kicker in the game. Last year in points per play in the red zone Brady was 30th in the league. He was 14th in the league in red zone touchdowns. If you look at his big games the guy who always seems to step up is the Pat’s kicker, not their QB. Last year in the Indy game Vinatieri made up for Brady’s pathetic red zone play by kicking 5 field goals after Brady choked drives ending on the Indy 13, the 7, the 9, the 3 and the 16. Brady also left the heavy lifting in two Super Bowls to long Vinatieri field goals. While Vinatieri played big in the end of the Indy and Carolina games last year, Brady was throwing 4th quarter picks in both games. I find it hard to call a guy who’s good at moving the ball between the 20 yard lines the best in the league. The Brady record so far is of a guy who moves the ball 40-50 yards and his kicker puts points on the board. Perhaps he’ll become a more complete QB in the future, or perhaps he’s the next Kurt Warner. Also consider this- the longest pass he threw in the air against Indy in the playoffs traveled about 15 yards. I don’t think you’d disagree that Brady would have no chance of his arm holding out for a season if he were being asked to launch 30 and 35 yard balls downfield 4 or 5 times a game. And that in my mind precludes him from being effective in well over 90 percent of the historical offenses in the history of the league. I can’t imagine making a guy who requires a small ball offense anything more than a very good system QB, impossible to call historically among the best and difficult even to call contemporaneously the best. No doubt he has some cute little instincts in the pocket but I have to believe it's a good thing the Pats protect him well because if he gets hit he’s as fragile as any dancer in the Nutcracker. The again, in the interest of political correctness maybe I should pick a different ballet? Now let me add one additional caveat- You've just bought an NFL team and traded for Tom Brady. You've also just hired Marty Schottenhiemer as your coach. Do you enter the season confident you'll end it believing you have the best QB in the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 No way - Drew has a bigger arm and Drew gets paid more, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 I’d agree that there’s a NE player who’s the best at his position in the NFL, but it surely isn’t their QB. Even if you remove the subjective quarterbacking dynamics like quality of Oline, fit in the offensive system and quality of coaching, the stats just don’t bear out that Brady is anywhere near the best QB in the league. In fact, I’d say the stats tend to point to a guy who gets regularly bailed out of his red zone deficiencies by having perhaps the best kicker in the game. Last year in points per play in the red zone Brady was 30th in the league. He was 14th in the league in red zone touchdowns. If you look at his big games the guy who always seems to step up is the Pat’s kicker, not their QB. Last year in the Indy game Vinatieri made up for Brady’s pathetic red zone play by kicking 5 field goals after Brady choked drives ending on the Indy 13, the 7, the 9, the 3 and the 16. Brady also left the heavy lifting in two Super Bowls to long Vinatieri field goals. While Vinatieri played big in the end of the Indy and Carolina games last year, Brady was throwing 4th quarter picks in both games. I find it hard to call a guy who’s good at moving the ball between the 20 yard lines the best in the league. The Brady record so far is of a guy who moves the ball 40-50 yards and his kicker puts points on the board. Perhaps he’ll become a more complete QB in the future, or perhaps he’s the next Kurt Warner. Also consider this- the longest pass he threw in the air against Indy in the playoffs traveled about 15 yards. I don’t think you’d disagree that Brady would have no chance of his arm holding out for a season if he were being asked to launch 30 and 35 yard balls downfield 4 or 5 times a game. And that in my mind precludes him from being effective in well over 90 percent of the historical offenses in the history of the league. I can’t imagine making a guy who requires a small ball offense anything more than a very good system QB, impossible to call historically among the best and difficult even to call contemporaneously the best. No doubt he has some cute little insitncts in the pocket but I have to believe it's a good thing the Pats protect him well because if he gets hit he’s as fragile as any dancer in the Nutcracker. The again, in the interest of political correctness maybe I should pick a different ballet? 25825[/snapback] What a bunch of hogwash. Give Brady the Colts OL, Harrison, James, Wayne, Stokley, Pollard, Clark and let Tom Moore call his plays and Brady would post stats and #'s that would make your hair stand up. For crying out loud man, Brady has posted #'s as good as most QB's in the history of the game with no namers blocking for him, with Antowain toting the ball for him, with Troy Friggen Brown as his one and only real WR, and with some Christian dude as his TE. That he could do what he's done with these stiffs helping him out is a miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njsue Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 No Bret Farve is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon in Pasadena Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 He is rather amazing at floating balls, and lobbing them, and squeezing them into tight spots. 25268[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RabidBillsFanVT Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 This coming from someone that has to visit another team's msg board... Having lived in the New England area for a few years, I laugh when a Patriots fan calls anyone moronic. Anyone who drops their R's only to add them to other words should never, ever question anyone's intelligence. You don't talk like that? Good for you! You're in the minority up there. Here's an idear, if you're going to claim him to be the #1 QB based upon playing a Colts defense, then you're the idiot. We didn't see the flurry of posts claiming him to be so hot before the game. I've seen what a defense that can get past their OL do to this overrated shmuck (i.e., last year's opener). Remember what happened in 2002 when they tried to be cute and be pass-happy? They lost 4 in a row. Funny how people forget such things. If you love the guy so much, why don't you join his fan club: www.absolutebrady.com Have fun! :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: 25627[/snapback] HEY, we do that too!!!! Don't lump us in with Taxachusetts!!! Between the Giants fans in upstate NY and the Patriots fans in Taxachusetts/Connecticut/RI, it's no fun, but I'll take em all on! WAAAAAAAAARRR! RABID Ev'ryone shud go ta Vermont fah som ski'in this yeah! Nat an Sundays, tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Neither defense was elite last year. Good? Sure. But elite to the point where the original poster's comment could be considered "asinine"? Uh, no. Their respective 2003 rankings wave back enthusiastically! That said, Brady is a rock solid QB. 25523[/snapback] Um! You do realise that he played Dallas, Miami (X2), Buffalo and Philly and won?! Right?! Those teams are ranked 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 7th in your list of "elite" Ds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 I don't think he's quite caught McNair yet but the fact that this is a legit question annoys the ever-lovin shlt out of me. 25229[/snapback] McNair certainly has better Skills/Physical Tools etc... But I'd take Brady over any NFL QB (well...except JP Losman) purely because his greatest attribute, and the least discussed of them all, is his Leadership...The guy wins Team Off Season Conditioning Awards...He's a freaking QB...That is a Leader, and in my opinion why the Pats get more out of every Player on that Team. These Patsies would run through walls for Brady....That's what I want from My QB... B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILLS4LIFE Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 No Bret Farve is. 25843[/snapback] Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 What a bunch of hogwash. Give Brady the Colts OL, Harrison, James, Wayne, Stokley, Pollard, Clark and let Tom Moore call his plays and Brady would post stats and #'s that would make your hair stand up. For crying out loud man, Brady has posted #'s as good as most QB's in the history of the game with no namers blocking for him, with Antowain toting the ball for him, with Troy Friggen Brown as his one and only real WR, and with some Christian dude as his TE. That he could do what he's done with these stiffs helping him out is a miracle. 25840[/snapback] Yes, for goodness sakes post anonymously and ignore the indisputable facts I offered in making my assessment. The use of the word "hogwash" always indicates a strong position in any discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjamie12 Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 My opinion? Brady is not the most talented QB in the NFL or even close to it. He still can't throw the medium to deep ball (not the downfield pass, the intermediate ranges 10-12-15 yards) very well He is, however, among the best at running the system that he was given... I don't think you can even question that one anymore. Other QB's have more talent, but isn't the bottom line scoring points? You don't score points based on talent, you score them based on executing each play that is sent in, in the manner that it was drawn up. Would he succeed in the West Coast offense, or some other scheme that put a premium on precision and intermediate routes? I doubt it. I doubt it very much. But we don't know that, do we? We only know how he performs in the offense that is given to him. On that account, he gets A's across the board. He RUNS that offense just as well, if not better than, any other QB in the league runs their offense, and you have to place him at or near the top of the league based on that, don't you? As a side note, you really have to hand it to Charlie Weiss, who has designed the perfect offense for the talent that those guys have. There is no better match of scheme and personnel in the league, imo. Simply amazing. Disclaimer: I just threw up in my mouth writing this. I hate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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