Lil' Dummy McKenzie.........offical team character builder

[Rubes]

29 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Name 1 WR that will go likely now 6 full seasons, and i will be nice about this and give the dude 400 yards this season and gets better year 6? name one hat has gotten better after 6 years? last 2 of them being with some QB dude named Josh Allen. Shakir is faster, quicker and has way more ceiling to his Career then McKenzie every will.

 

your narratives are horrible!

the haters? if you get a chuck roast put in front of you then get a juicy prime rib placed in front of you... if you chose the prime rib does that make you a hater? Just stop man. Shakir has so much more to offer at a way younger age.

 

Sure thing. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, I guess.

 

[FilthyBeast]

I've said for some time that Mckenzie is useless and the equivalent of Zack Moss at the WR position.

 

And since it looks like the Moss experiment may finally be over, really hoping we do the same with McKenzie because not only are better players sitting behind him, he is going to cost this team dearly with his turnovers and mistakes.

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

To the bold, so you agree with my premise. Cool.

 

Knox still caught the TD, he still executed. Just because he didnt go the way Josh waved him is irrelevant. McKenzie has trouble catching the ball even when he goes where he is supposed to, mainly because of his lack of concentration. Whether its having the pass taken away, like in LA, or not being ready for the ball even though he is an outlet on the play, or stumbling over his own feet trying to adjust, he's not locked in.

 

And I dont mean "playing flawless football". Everyone will make mistakes. I mean being READY.

 

A better example of what I mean is from the Miami game. The Bills are trying to spike the ball and stop the clock. Josh fumbles the snap and in an instant realizes that he can't spike it and therefore must throw it. He stands up and slings it out to Diggs who is standing outside, thinking its going to be a normal spike play that doesnt involve him at all. Having zero reason to expect the ball, let alone a heater from Josh, Diggs STILL CATCHES IT, fully alert and tries (unsuccessfully) to get up-field. That is what I mean by being "locked in". Having your head in the game and ready for anything.

 

McKenzie barely seems ready for what he should be expecting.

 

Call it hating, call it bashing, make whatever ad hominem fallacy attacks you want, the point still stands and everyone can see it. This has been going on for years. Really his whole career. McK is a liability who should not be starting.

This thread’s title is an ad hominem and you’re trying to back it up while accusing others of ad hominems?  Shirley 

McKenzie is starting because Crowder, and to some extent Kumerow are hurt.  The only “solution” at this point is a rookie who himself has shown suspect awareness in critical spots.  Logic is not working in your favor here.  The play to Knox required pinpoint accuracy which thankfully Allen delivered.  Had Knox read the situation correctly it is a layup.  Johnson, Hamlin and Neal weren’t exactly “aware” during JuJu’s TD.  Luckily we left Johnson in there.

 

[TPS]

25 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

the haters? if you get a chuck roast put in front of you then get a juicy prime rib placed in front of you... if you chose the prime rib does that make you a hater? Just stop man. Shakir has so much more to offer at a way younger age.

Oh, I'm okay with Shakir taking more reps from LD, and I think Crowder was certainly increasing and taking his snaps before the injury.  I like McKenzie for the unique things he does, and despite having a bad game yesterday, he adds value to the team.

 

As for hating on him, it's the nature of the beast when someone has a bad showing. I remember people complaining about Gilmore when he gave up a TD one game. People who only focus on the negative will always find someone to pick on.

[RoyBatty is alive]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

To the bold, so you agree with my premise. Cool.

 

Knox still caught the TD, he still executed. Just because he didnt go the way Josh waved him is irrelevant. McKenzie has trouble catching the ball even when he goes where he is supposed to, mainly because of his lack of concentration. Whether its having the pass taken away, like in LA, or not being ready for the ball even though he is an outlet on the play, or stumbling over his own feet trying to adjust, he's not locked in.

 

And I dont mean "playing flawless football". Everyone will make mistakes. I mean being READY.

 

A better example of what I mean is from the Miami game. The Bills are trying to spike the ball and stop the clock. Josh fumbles the snap and in an instant realizes that he can't spike it and therefore must throw it. He stands up and slings it out to Diggs who is standing outside, thinking its going to be a normal spike play that doesnt involve him at all. Having zero reason to expect the ball, let alone a heater from Josh, Diggs STILL CATCHES IT, fully alert and tries (unsuccessfully) to get up-field. That is what I mean by being "locked in". Having your head in the game and ready for anything.

 

McKenzie barely seems ready for what he should be expecting.

 

Call it hating, call it bashing, make whatever ad hominem fallacy attacks you want, the point still stands and everyone can see it. This has been going on for years. Really his whole career. McK is a liability who should not be starting.

 

Who is? I dont see many or any people pushing for that in here. I think most of his detractors, all Ive seen, are merely saying he should get less snaps and give Shakir a chance.

 

The "cut McKenzie mob" is just a boogeyman made up by the McKenzie defenders who dont want to admit the obvious truth that the dude makes too many unforced bad plays.

FYI, Not to beat this into the ground, 1) I dont know who is in  the cut Mckenzie camp, Ask Iverwig, I was responding to his comments 2) nor am I a Mckenzie defender..  At this point, i am in the  I would prefer to see Shakir  got the starting role or at least more time.

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

This thread’s title is an ad hominem and you’re trying to back it up while accusing others of ad hominems?  Shirley 

 

No it isnt. The premise of the thread is that McK is incompetent. That alone isnt an ad hominem. Attack Badol instead of refuting his argument is ad hominem. Anyways...

 

13 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

McKenzie is starting because Crowder, and to some extent Kumerow are hurt.  The only “solution” at this point is a rookie who himself has shown suspect awareness in critical spots.  Logic is not working in your favor here.  The play to Knox required pinpoint accuracy which thankfully Allen delivered.  Had Knox read the situation correctly it is a layup.  Johnson, Hamlin and Neal weren’t exactly “aware” during JuJu’s TD.  Luckily we left Johnson in there.

 

 

Right. We are all saying that a rookie deserves more playing time. That's how untrustworthy we deem McKenzie. I can understand a rookie making some mistakes. I can not excuse a 5 year vet making dumb plays. That IS the logic.

 

Again, we are talking about a long history of dumb mistakes with McK. No one else you name has that, and it makes no sense to compare it to "one offs".

 

He is a liability.

 

So far you've agreed with me that McK is dialed out more often than others, and the solution is to start Shakir. Exactly what I'm saying. Just saying it your own way. Not sure why you feel the need to defend McK so strongly. Folks arent vandalizing his front lawn. We're just stating the obvious.

 

6 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

FYI, Not to beat this into the ground, 1) I dont know who is in  the cut Mckenzie camp, Ask Iverwig, I was responding to his comments 2) nor am I a Mckenzie defender..  At this point, i am in the  I would prefer to see Shakir  got the starting role or at least more time.

 

That wasnt aimed at you outside of you making the perfect statement for me to quote and respond to. All good. 👍

 

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by DrDawkinstein

[4merper4mer]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

No it isnt. The premise of the thread is that McK is incompetent. That alone isnt an ad hominem. Attack Badol instead of refuting his argument is ad hominem. Anyways...

 

 

Right. We are all saying that a rookie deserves more playing time. That's how untrustworthy we deem McKenzie. I can understand a rookie making some mistakes. I can not excuse a 5 year vet making dumb plays. That IS the logic.

 

Again, we are talking about a long history of dumb mistakes with McK. No one else you name has that, and it makes no sense to compare it to "one offs".

 

He is a liability.

 

 

That wasnt aimed at you outside of you making the perfect statement for me to quote and respond to. All good. 👍

Sorry dude but Knox has a long history of dumb plays….and I like Knox.  He pretty much cost us the Texans playoff game if you go back and look.  He had a dumb false start, three plays where Allen had to realign him pre-snap which led to hurried pace and more.  He made what could have ended up being a game losing mistake yesterday and got bailed out.  
 

There are 100% some plays where I think McK screwed up.  The kickoff fumble against Indy was real bad IMO.  The examples being used from yesterday are weak.  The flip to me was 50/50 because Josh didn’t even seem sure what he was doing until he actually did it.  The EZ play was something that happens at times to every player in the league and had nothing to do with awareness.  He slipped trying to adjust.  

 

And titling a thread “dummy” is a lot lot different than “liability” or even “incompetent”.  

[AlfaBill]

48 minutes ago, Mafioso said:

McKenzie has largely been living off of that one great performance against the Pats ever since.  I was high on McKenzie before the season but he has not performed well at all.  Lack of awareness (not running out of bounds with no timeouts against the Fins, not falling on the fumble yesterday), turnovers, drops, falling on his face in the end zone on what should have been a TD.  I want him to do well but Shakir seems to have the "it" factor right now and should get a higher % of the snaps.

I agree. It’s just the knee jerk reactions that we all have from time to time. I’m sure the coaching staff will do what’s best

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Sorry dude but Knox has a long history of dumb plays….and I like Knox.  He pretty much cost us the Texans playoff game if you go back and look.  He had a dumb false start, three plays where Allen had to realign him pre-snap which led to hurried pace and more.  He made what could have ended up being a game losing mistake yesterday and got bailed out.

 

He was a rookie and has shown improvement in awareness and focus every year. Denver cut McK for the same reasons, and he's still doing dumb stuff. Bad comparison, imo.

 

12 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

There are 100% some plays where I think McK screwed up.  The kickoff fumble against Indy was real bad IMO.  The examples being used from yesterday are weak.  The flip to me was 50/50 because Josh didn’t even seem sure what he was doing until he actually did it.  The EZ play was something that happens at times to every player in the league and had nothing to do with awareness.  He slipped trying to adjust.  

 

And titling a thread “dummy” is a lot lot different than “liability” or even “incompetent”.  

 

I'm willing to pass on the slip because there are so many other examples, it isnt even needed. Only discussed because it is so recent. Dont even need it for the list tho.

 

Still isnt an ad hominem. Plus, we're shooting the ***** here. This isnt some official government institution where decorum reigns. Dummy, unfocused, scatter-brained, incompetent.... all the same. No one is saying he's a horrible person, or even a horrible player. Just too unfocused to trust when our sights are set on the Super Bowl.

 

Heck, Badol even called him a "character builder". Which is sarcastic and backhanded, but isnt a vicious, unwarranted attack.

 

It's reasonable to expect Shakir, a rookie, to continue to improve and grow (if he doesnt, we'll address that then). At this point, with the body of work available, I think it's equally as reasonable to say that these bonehead mistakes part of what McK brings as a player.

 

I'll state again for posterity. McK is a liability, and Shakir should start in the slot.

[Mattymafia]

This post was stupid and you should feel bad. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

23 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Sorry dude but Knox has a long history of dumb plays….and I like Knox.  He pretty much cost us the Texans playoff game if you go back and look.  He had a dumb false start, three plays where Allen had to realign him pre-snap which led to hurried pace and more.  He made what could have ended up being a game losing mistake yesterday and got bailed out.  
 

There are 100% some plays where I think McK screwed up.  The kickoff fumble against Indy was real bad IMO.  The examples being used from yesterday are weak.  The flip to me was 50/50 because Josh didn’t even seem sure what he was doing until he actually did it.  The EZ play was something that happens at times to every player in the league and had nothing to do with awareness.  He slipped trying to adjust.  

 

And titling a thread “dummy” is a lot lot different than “liability” or even “incompetent”.  

 

On the Texans playoff game, Knox also temporarily saved the game with the unscripted J Allen pitch to him that Knox luckily go to knock out of bounds.

 

And what play did he almost cost us the game where he got bailed out, i missed a few minutes of play and didn't see it on any highlights.

[Gugny]

22 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Sorry dude but Knox has a long history of dumb plays….and I like Knox.  He pretty much cost us the Texans playoff game if you go back and look.  He had a dumb false start, three plays where Allen had to realign him pre-snap which led to hurried pace and more.  He made what could have ended up being a game losing mistake yesterday and got bailed out.  
 

There are 100% some plays where I think McK screwed up.  The kickoff fumble against Indy was real bad IMO.  The examples being used from yesterday are weak.  The flip to me was 50/50 because Josh didn’t even seem sure what he was doing until he actually did it.  The EZ play was something that happens at times to every player in the league and had nothing to do with awareness.  He slipped trying to adjust.  

 

And titling a thread “dummy” is a lot lot different than “liability” or even “incompetent”.  

 

I actually compared Knox's struggles to McKittrick's struggles earlier today.

 

Knox showed, and maintained, great improvement after his first two seasons.  McKittrick is in his 6th season.  I think that's pretty significant.  He shouldn't be making the mistakes he's making at this point in his career.  He should be counted on to be consistently reliable.  He just isn't and I think he is officially a liability.

 

Lastly, I do agree that the use of the word "Dummy" in the thread title was unnecessary, immature and downright stupid.

 

[NewEra]

 

poor guy.  It it what it is.  His small hands and arms sometimes get in the way of a catch and an incompletion.  Focus is likely a problem at times, but his smallness affects his production. 
 

In hindsight, I’m glad he had a bad game. We won and that’s all that matters.  After last week, it looked like Shakir should get

more reps, if not start.  I was praying he would take over as starter in the slot, but I didn’t think McD would do that to dirty (him lose his starting spot due to injury).  That said, McD will give his spot to shakir if dirty doesn’t produce and he didn’t.  Let’s hope that’s the case.  Dirty is limited and shakir is a budding star in the slot imo.  Maybe not vs GB, but the change should happen soon unless dirty starts being a difference maker

[PrimeTime101]

47 minutes ago, TPS said:

Oh, I'm okay with Shakir taking more reps from LD, and I think Crowder was certainly increasing and taking his snaps before the injury.  I like McKenzie for the unique things he does, and despite having a bad game yesterday, he adds value to the team.

 

As for hating on him, it's the nature of the beast when someone has a bad showing. I remember people complaining about Gilmore when he gave up a TD one game. People who only focus on the negative will always find someone to pick on.

well said, just clarifying that i am not a hater lol

[Billsguy]

Shakir is better. Period.

[518Buffalo]

McKenzie definitely has value to the offense, that said I’d like to see Shakir ramp up as WR3 after the bye

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

well said, just clarifying that i am not a hater lol

 

Same.

 

I dont "hate" McK as a person or even as a player. I hope he does well, and have enjoyed the games when he's able to make big contributions.

 

But we have a Super Bowl to win...

[HOUSE]

So, we all agree, trade McKenzie and a 3rd to the Panthers for Christian McCaffery...

[4merper4mer]

22 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I actually compared Knox's struggles to McKittrick's struggles earlier today.

 

Knox showed, and maintained, great improvement after his first two seasons.  McKittrick is in his 6th season.  I think that's pretty significant.  He shouldn't be making the mistakes he's making at this point in his career.  He should be counted on to be consistently reliable.  He just isn't and I think he is officially a liability.

 

Lastly, I do agree that the use of the word "Dummy" in the thread title was unnecessary, immature and downright stupid.

 

I can agree with that on balance because there seems to be more quantity with McK than Knox but the fact is Knox made a big mistake yesterday and got away with it.

15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Same.

 

I dont "hate" McK as a person or even as a player. I hope he does well, and have enjoyed the games when he's able to make big contributions.

 

But we have a Super Bowl to win...

So get a rookie in there quick.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said:

So get a rookie in there quick.

 

Yep. Exactly how bad it is. Go Bills!