Conor Orr: Those 13 Seconds in Kansas City? How the Bills Got Over It.

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

Absolutely.  In my early 20’s I was one of those fans who would let a bad result ruin the next couple days and I’d experience genuine rage at particularly bad results.  And this was during the drought years when there was a lot of that.

 

I needed to have the realizations that a) none of this was in my control and b) relying on something out of my control to generate positive feelings like pride and fulfillment is a waste of my time.  

At least you are learning.   

 

The ups and downs of this team impacted me much more greatly when I was a kid.  I was in undergrad during the Super Bowl years...the team really did have an impact on me.

Now, whatever we get on Sunday, I'm usually recovered in about 20 minutes.  No joke.

 

I think it's called "maturity."

 

 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

And one other thing about moving on from 13 Seconds.  

 

I'm sure others have commented on it, but I never thought much about the parallel with Wide Right.   Great young team emerging on the scene, suddenly is hit with a heart-breaking loss, a loss that that is so momentous it becomes part of not just Bills history but NFL history.  The question is, "how does the great young team respond after experiencing such a loss?"   The answer comes only as the weeks, months, and years play out.  We know the positives and negatives of how the Kelly Bills responded.  The Allen Bills have gone 4-1 so far, and the Chiefs game will be an interesting piece of evidence, but we're months or even years away from knowing how well they will process 13 Seconds.  

 

 

I wondered if anyone would mention the connection to the SB Bills.

 

Yeah, that sensational team was haunted by that first SB loss, I think. Two of those last three were simply better teams, but they had a real shot at one. I think it was still in their heads.

26 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

Good article.  Two things in the article stuck out to me. 

 

First, I love what Diggs said about wanting to spend time with his teammates even after a whole day of meetings and practice. That's true family right there.

 

Second is not the article, but the picture of Allen walking off the field looking up with is helmet perched atop his head. And it's not Allen that caught my attention. I've seen that shot before.  It's the Chiefs player to the right. Not sure who that is, but it appears he's looking back at Allen with  a bit of a haunted look on his face, like "I don't want to ever face that dude again." or, "That guy's gonna be gunning for us. He'll be back." It's almost as if he's amazed Allen lost. 

 

 

Yeah, I loved that bit.about Diggs. And it's the first time he's felt that in the NFL, obviously, which is why it meant so much to him to realize that.

 

Didn't notice that in the Allen picture. I'll go take another look right now.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks, Thurm.   It's a deeper look into the Bills mindset.  

 

Processing 13 Seconds is, for the players, one of those things that's easier said than done.   They can try all they want to take the growth mindset approach, but they still have (1) their own memories of a painful mindset and (2) people asking them about it all the time.  It's like having a death in the family - you can process it all you want, but every morning when you wake up the feeling of loss is still there, and people keep bringing it up - "I was so sorry to hear about your _______'s passing."    

 

It takes strength and personal discipline to move on from bad memories.   And that's why McBeane focus so much on the character issues when they evaluate players.  

 

I was interested that Taiwan Jones showed up in the article as a process leader.  It's been obvious that McDermott wants him on the team, but I always assumed it was simply that he brought the right attitude to special teams.  The article makes it sound like Jones in a team leader - he was one of the true disciples of McDermott's process. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Shaw. That about Taiwan Jones was my main takeaway. 

 

Who knew that's the kind of guy he is? Not me, anyway.

 

And while I really see what you're saying about the death in the family, to me this would be different. You don't control most deaths in your family. This would be more like everyone reminding you of something terrible you did.

 

The study quoted in the article about athletes watching videos of losing races having the same brain waves as people suffering from clinical depression brought it into focus for me. This means an awful awful lot to these guys.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Augie]

I used to play tennis in a league with a sports psychologist. Everybody knew that when Don got nervous on big points he was likely to double fault. It was a real thing. 

 

 

I never went to see him professionally.  

[JaCrispy]

One of the things that helped me get over it was thinking that I’d rather lose a divisional playoff game in that manner (as bad as it sucked) than lose another super bowl…so, if we were going to lose, I would gladly take it there…

 

The Bills lost 4 Super Bowls due to sports psychology, so it’s definitely a real thing…

Edited October 15, 2022 by JaCrispy

[Big Turk]

It's really amazing how a player can be completely different when they are brimming with confidence versus when they don't have any.

[Tanoros]

I loved hearing the information about visualization that Von and Taiwan bring to the team. This is something I’ve been practicing for over 10 years and I can personally testify that I changed my life drastically adopting this approach. 
 

So cool that Von is talking about visualizing a championship at the lunch table each day. 

[mabden]

If I was a butthole Chiefs fan, I would be tempted to start a "13 seconds" chant. 

[ToGoGo]

We needed 13 Seconds to solidify a dynasty mindset. 

 

There is a vocal minority, likely very unsuccesful in their personal life who have an attitude of "No excuses! You failed? You must die! Throw him in the pit! Next up!" Which is very primitive. Very easy to spot these people. 

 

I recently watch Four Falls and whomever brought up the 90s Bills was right. They are a great example of sports psychology. Especially halftime of the 4th Super Bowl where were up but the team expected to lose. 

 

McDermott is the king of "doing things fundamentally right". "Build the pyramid and time will take care of the rest". This is a guaranteed winning formula as long as it is done with strong discernment, which it is. 

 

I'm telling you, if we won the SB last year we would've been 1 time winners. Because of 13 Seconds, I believe we will win 3, 4, or even 5 to truly end the past demons of not just the 90s but also the Pats. 

 

Von came here for a reason. The man is a shaman of victory. 

[scuba guy]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

At least you are learning.   

 

The ups and downs of this team impacted me much more greatly when I was a kid.  I was in undergrad during the Super Bowl years...the team really did have an impact on me.

Now, whatever we get on Sunday, I'm usually recovered in about 20 minutes.  No joke.

 

I think it's called "maturity."

 

 

Dido

 

I was in college also during the sb years and felts low after the wide right.  All the other swimmers on the team were giants fans.  Maybe I felt more down because the ripping I got afterwards.  But know it does not even faze me.

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

First, a warning. There's a lot of sports psychology stuff here on how to recover from disastrous outcomes and keep moving onward and up. If you don't like that sort of thing, I highly recommend reversing out of this thread.

 

So do me a favor, would you? If you're not willing to read it, pass by, horseman, yeah? In the whole first page of comments it looks like two people, maybe three, show they read anything. Which makes for conversation deep as a puddle on a flat piece of glass. So, if you're willing to read it, then feel free to blast it and me. If not, could you please head to one of the other threads available for your viewing pleasure?

 

Great article, IMO. Lots of Bills content.

 

Want to know why Diggs meets with Taiwan Jones before every game? Read the article. Wanna learn why people hang with Von at the lunch table? Read the article. Wanna learn just a bit about the sports psychologist for the Bills and Sabers? I didn't even know we had one till I read the article. 

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/10/14/psychology-of-how-bills-got-over-playoff-loss-to-chiefs

 

 

Subtitle:  "Last year’s heartbreaking playoff loss to the Chiefs might have stuck with us, but it didn’t stick with the Bills. The psychology of a team that moved on."

 

This excerpt is maybe 25% of the article:

 

 

                      ------------------

"In an effort to understand the mechanics of such motivation, Sports Illustrated reached out to a handful of mental health experts in the athletic space to talk about the most effective way to bury a loss on the magnitude of the “13 seconds” game. While there are different tools in any therapist’s belt, most agreed that a general acceptance of what happened, the open and honest discussion of feelings, an eventual focus on the positives gleaned from the process that brought them there and a constructive discussion on what could be learned from the moment was a formidable recipe. While we might all enjoy the idea of McDermott lying on a bed of spikes for 13 seconds or spending 13 seconds in a pit of live rattlesnakes to atone for various defensive and special-teams missteps at the end of the game, the prevailing idea is that the right processes could avoid the need for a grand gesture.

 

"What if, even when the outside world defines them by 13 seconds, the Bills don’t have to? Or, as Diggs puts it: 'If I hang onto it, it’s something that weighs me down. And I don’t like things weighing me down.'

 

"Dr. Mark Ayoagi, the co-director of sport and performance psychology and a professor in the graduate school of professional psychology at the University of Denver, spent time under three different coaching regimes with the Broncos. 

 

"While he is careful not to make any blanket statements about football players or athletes in general, there are some critical points to understand about the competitive brain. 

 

"The first is that, 'they have to have some baseline of mental health to have made it to this point [in professional sports],' he says. Years and years of high-pressure competition, winning and losing force them to moderate and not stake so much mental equity on one performance. 

 

“They know that if you’re on the losing side it sucks and the winning side it’s great, but that both of them are gone by Monday,” he says. 'They don’t carry this around like a fan might. Or through an entire offseason like a fan might. It’s not that they don’t care; it’s that they have more experiences dealing with it.'

 

"The second point: Ayoagi finds athletes to be in a better general headspace than the average population when sports performances are going well, but a lower general headspace when they are not. The issue, he says, is that many athletes feel they are unable to find a sympathetic ear due to the public knowledge of their high salaries and the perception that they can’t vent their frustrations because they play a game for a living. 

 

“'It’s like the question: Is sports more protective or exacerbating of substance use?' Ayoagi says. 'The answer is both. Athletes use less frequently, but when they use, they use more. It’s an analogy that holds true for mental health. There’s a lot of protective factors, but they also have a white-hot spotlight on them. And when they are not in a good space, all of a sudden their social support is gone. They can’t talk to anyone about this. [They think], who wants to hear from the guy with the $4 million contract?'

 

"The plus side to these heightened negative feelings is that even a brief intervention can yield positive results in helping an athlete reframe or reshape a difficult moment. Ayoagi, for example, utilizes the baseline theory behind acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT), which encourages patients to accept the fact that our brain throws weird, anxious, scary, grotesque or depressing thoughts, images and stories at us all the time, and learning to accept this default feature and pivot toward something personally meaningful is an effective way of combating stressors."

 

                   ---------------

 

 

This is maybe 25% of the article. Lots of more specific stuff on what Taiwan Jones, Von Miller, Diggs and McDermott do to work on the mindset of this team. Plus, did you know they have a sports psychologist named Dr. Desaree Festa, working for both the Bills and Sabres? I didn't.

 

Really good stuff, IMO.

 

 

 

Thurm, you have my word I’ll read it, because if you think it’s worth reading, then it’s worth reading.  I don’t have time now, but a little later today.  
 

Even though I’ve been on the business side of medicine, my clinical background is as a licensed psychotherapist.  I haven’t practiced in quite sometime, but sports psychology can be very in overcoming trauma.  That’s how I infer that 13 seconds.  It’s surviving a traumatic event.  Nothing compared to real trauma, but for elite athletes, none the less traumatic for their psyche.

Thanks for sharing and you have me looking forward to the reading.

[scuba guy]

14 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

We needed 13 Seconds to solidify a dynasty mindset. 

 

There is a vocal minority, likely very unsuccesful in their personal life who have an attitude of "No excuses! You failed? You must die! Throw him in the pit! Next up!" Which is very primitive. Very easy to spot these people. 

 

I recently watch Four Falls and whomever brought up the 90s Bills was right. They are a great example of sports psychology. Especially halftime of the 4th Super Bowl where were up but the team expected to lose. 

 

McDermott is the king of "doing things fundamentally right". "Build the pyramid and time will take care of the rest". This is a guaranteed winning formula as long as it is done with strong discernment, which it is. 

 

I'm telling you, if we won the SB last year we would've been 1 time winners. Because of 13 Seconds, I believe we will win 3, 4, or even 5 to truly end the past demons of not just the 90s but also the Pats. 

 

Von came here for a reason. The man is a shaman of victory. 

Could not agree more great thought and very insightful. 

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

It's really amazing how a player can be completely different when they are brimming with confidence versus when they don't have any.

Mind over matter…perhaps Yoda was on to something…😉

Edited October 15, 2022 by JaCrispy

[Nephilim17]

I think it's easy to dismiss this as psychobabble but who here doesn't think confidence is a huge factor in pro sports? That confidence isn't born out of nothing. We've seen many superior athletes not succeed and their mindset has to be a major factor in that.

Also, as far as I know, Von Miller has more Super Bowl rings than any other Bill or member of this board. And Von buys into this.

From the article: "The focus on process-oriented versus outcome-oriented gratification has been a huge development in the world of sport psychology, with more athletes being taught to value their individual growth and controllable progress instead of judging themselves based on wins and losses."

Von recently said in a presser or interview that he's "at peace" no matter if the team wins or loses because he knows he's done all he can to prepare. That is a 100% validation of the the quote above from the article.

If anyone here has better credentials than Von, I'd love to hear a counterpoint.

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, Heitz said:

Can’t tell if sarcasm… 🤔

As someone who works w pro athletes, I assure you sports psychology / psychologists are not just spouting psycho-babble and also that pro athletes mentally about wins and losses are def different than you and I. 🤷‍♂️

 

Lol I knew someone was going to do it here. Of all the dumb things to deny, denying or writing off psychology is at the tippy top of dumb things to deny. The human brain is the single most impressive and mysterious thing to ever exist.... and you're like nahhh. 

 

We know more about life at the bottom of the ocean then we do the brain, and we don't know chit about that.

[Utah John]

The one thing the article doesn't go into, and that could be key, is the issue of trust in the coaches.

 

The Bills players thought their final TD pass to Davis was the clincher, and that the coaches would know how to handle the 13 seconds.  Completely and disastrously wrong.  McDermott choked.  No squib kickoff, to take half the remaining time off the clock?  Seriously?  Frazier choked.  Levi Wallace guarding the sidelines, when the Chiefs had 3 timeouts and didn't need to run sideline plays?  Seriously?  Rushing four or five defenders (I don't recall exactly) when the key was to deny long plays -- so rushing only two or three and clogging the field was the obvious thing to do?  Seriously?  McDermott blaming poor execution for the loss?  Seriously?  

 

McDermott and Frazier are both great coaches, particularly Frazier.  They had the team in position to win, and the players deserved to win.  Deep in the back of their minds, the players will be wondering whether their coaches will come through if they get into another clutch situation.  Will the coaches be ready?

 

Both coaches are doing the best thing possible, which is doing an even better job this year of building the team and preparing it every week.  Maybe that's the best way to push the dark thoughts out of mind, and to restore trust in the players that they and the coaches together can and will achieve success.  I hope so.  If the Bills continue to succeed this year, it will be clear that the coaches and the leaders among the players have been successful. 

56 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

Von recently said in a presser or interview that he's "at peace" no matter if the team wins or loses because he knows he's done all he can to prepare. That is a 100% validation of the the quote above from the article.
 

I'm of the opinion that just having Miller in the locker room, helping the other players prepare to win, is an even greater contribution to the team than his excellent pass rushing ability.  

[Scott7975]

They are professional football players.  They made mistakes last season and they move on from them.  Just like they lost in the AFC Champ game the year before.  They moved on from it.  They arent fans that continually dredge over the OMG the big bad chiefs oh noes 13 seconds I need my mommy.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I'm not surprised the OP thinks this is so important.   He's almost always wrong and his perspective is clearly not aligned with the reality of pro sports so it's par for the course.

 

A lot has changed in the 30 years since the Bills were in SB's.    Players arrive in the league a lot more prepared for everything involved with being a pro athlete.  10 years ago you would regularly hear observers still note this with astonishment.   But now it's just the way it is.........so people tend to misunderstand the vast differences when they flash back.   There just aren't nearly as many surprises for players in this information age and they are simply more prepared in general for a number of reasons.   And that being the case,  it makes it a lot easier to just go out and play and not dwell on past negative results.       

[blacklabel]

All pretty good stuff. It's good to see coaches like McDermott staying on top of the psychological aspect of things. It's more than just the X's and O's and "just do your job." You've gotta know how to reach your players, what makes them tick, what motivates them, how they best learn and digest new information, etc. 

 

I'm reminded of the Hail Murray game in 2020. The Cards celebrated like they'd just won the Super Bowl. And everyone wanted to classify it as some huge, devastating loss for the Bills. In reality, the Bills saw how they reacted, they remained stoic about it and just were like, "Yeah, alright, you have fun with that, we'll be alright" and then they didn't lose another game until the AFC Championship. They're a well coached team despite what some on the forums here would have you believe. 

[Wayne Arnold]

Thanks for sharing.

 

Shows the importance of McDermott's coaching style to this team. 

 

I also think a big part of psychologically moving on from the devastating loss was parting ways with the players/coach who was deemed the most responsible for it:

• Wallace (burned by Hill, responsible for covering Kelce's inside with 8 seconds left)
• Farwell (no squib)
• Hughes and Addison (couldn't get to Mahomes when it mattered most, showed age by struggling late in the game)

Yes it's unfair as they contributed greatly to the Bills during their time here (especially Hughes of course) and I'm sure they were wished well. But that's life. 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Wayne Arnold