So You Wanna Be an NFL QB?

[Nextmanup]

It all looks SO MUCH CLOSER on that video.

TV has a way of making a football stadium appear about 4 times bigger than it is.

 

I'll never forget my first visit to Rich Stadium as a kid. I was amazed at how small it all looked to me.

 

 

[Beck Water]

11 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

This is the closest you're gonna get. 

 

Read this first.  Watch the video of Josh's 98 yarder to Gabe Davis from the pocket POV.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2022/10/12/23399480/josh-allen-gabe-davis-buffalo-bills-98-yard-touchdown

 

 

 

Where's @HoofHearted? 

 

Can you explain the zone blocking rules that cause Saffold to turn away from blocking Minkah Fitzpatrick and leaving him to flatten Josh while Morse is engaged with a blocker?  Even if Morse is supposed to pass his guy off to Bates and take on Fitzpatrick, shouldn't Saffold at least chip Fitzpatrick to give Morse time?

 

 

[HoofHearted]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Where's @HoofHearted? 

 

Can you explain the zone blocking rules that cause Saffold to turn away from blocking Minkah Fitzpatrick and leaving him to flatten Josh while Morse is engaged with a blocker?  Even if Morse is supposed to pass his guy off to Bates and take on Fitzpatrick, shouldn't Saffold at least chip Fitzpatrick to give Morse time?

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

 

So fundamentally, Saffold gets pwn'ed by a delayed blitz and moves off to block nothing while there's a guy who might still blitz standing there?

 

I understand the blocking rules you're explaining, but heads-up OLmen working in concert gotta adapt in play as well.  Eric Woods has talked about this.  At best, I can say that Saffold has no rappore or chemistry built with Morse yet and that's gotta change.

 

I think the guy Morse and Bates are blocking is Cam Hayward, and thinking that Sweeney is gonna handle the other DT solo and that Morse will be able to blithely hand Hayward off to Bates sounds like "a plan where you lose your Hat ....a Bad Plan"

[HoofHearted]

16 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

So fundamentally, Saffold gets pwn'ed by a delayed blitz and moves off to block nothing while there's a guy who might still blitz standing there?

 

I understand the blocking rules you're explaining, but heads-up OLmen working in concert gotta adapt in play as well.  Eric Woods has talked about this.  At best, I can say that Saffold has no rappore or chemistry built with Morse yet and that's gotta change.

 

I think the guy Morse and Bates are blocking is Cam Hayward, and thinking that Sweeney is gonna handle the other DT solo and that Morse will be able to blithely hand Hayward off to Bates sounds like "a plan where you lose your Hat ....a Bad Plan"

Saffold doesn't get "pwn'ed" by anything. He has a potential threat in his gap and once that threat is eliminated he moves on to his gap side to double that threat. Not sure where the chemistry bit with Morse is coming from. The rules are the rules and freelancing will get you beat.

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Saffold doesn't get "pwn'ed" by anything. He has a potential threat in his gap and once that threat is eliminated he moves on to his gap side to double that threat. Not sure where the chemistry bit with Morse is coming from. The rules are the rules and freelancing will get you beat.

 

Are we talking about the same play?  I normally understand you, but I don't at all here.

 

Saffold does not have the threat eliminated.  The threat is Minkah Fitzpatrick.  Fitzpatrick blitzes and hits Josh through the gap Saffold was guarding a moment previously - fortunately just after, rather than just before, Josh releases the ball.

 

 

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Are we talking about the same play?  I normally understand you, but I don't at all here.

 

Saffold does not have the threat eliminated.  The threat is Minkah Fitzpatrick.  Fitzpatrick blitzes and hits Josh through the gap Saffold was guarding a moment previously - fortunately just after, rather than just before, Josh releases the ball.

 

 

Yes, the 98 yard touchdown play. I explained the blocking rules to the half slide protection that the Bills ran in that original response I linked.

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Yes, the 98 yard touchdown play. I explained the blocking rules to the half slide protection that the Bills ran in that original response I linked.

 

I understand your explanation of the blocking rules, I'm asking you to explain how, under your rules, Fitzpatrick as the safety is seen as "eliminated as a threat" when he plainly is still there and in fact, as soon as he reads the play as a pass, he blitzes right through the hole Saffold vacates.  Meanwhile there's no one else off to the L for Saffold to handle.

 

I'd be happy to put in pics from the all-22 to illustrate what I'm seeing but they get rejected for being too large.  I gotta figure out a way to resize without muss and fuss.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Beck Water

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I understand your explanation of the blocking rules, I'm asking you to explain how, under your rules, Fitzpatrick as the safety is seen as "eliminated as a threat" when he plainly is still there and in fact, as soon as he reads the play as a pass, he blitzes right through the hole Saffold vacates.  Meanwhile there's no one else off to the L for Saffold to handle.

 

I'd be happy to put in pics from the all-22 to illustrate what I'm seeing but they get rejected for being too large.  I gotta figure out a way to resize without muss and fuss.

 

I'm running into the same issue with the pictures, but lets see if I can explain it without them. Fitzpatrick eliminates himself as an initial rush threat as soon as he steps backwards into coverage. You can see as soon as the ball is snapped both Saffold and Morse have eyes on Minkah because pre-snap he is a potential rush threat. Once he declares himself to no longer be an immediate rush threat Saffold no longer has anything holding him to help chip with Morse so he works to his gap side to double for when the defensive end will ultimately work back upfield on Dawkins. Once Morse sees Minkah isn't an initial rush threat his eyes go to backside A to punch the backside A gap rusher to help Bates overtake. As soon as Morse engages with the defender his eyes immediately go back to his gap side (left) because that's ultimately what he is responsible for. Once Morse sees Minkah try to add on he works to disengage from the backside A gap defender to pick up Minkah.

 

If Minkah had rushed immediately Saffold would have been involved in the block - if he rushed B gap Saffold would have him - if he rushed A gap Saffold would have punched to give Morse time to overtake, but would have gotten eyes back to his B gap after making initial contact with his punch.

 

Hope that helps clarify.

[RoyBatty is alive]

4 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

I'm running into the same issue with the pictures, but lets see if I can explain it without them. Fitzpatrick eliminates himself as an initial rush threat as soon as he steps backwards into coverage. You can see as soon as the ball is snapped both Saffold and Morse have eyes on Minkah because pre-snap he is a potential rush threat. Once he declares himself to no longer be an immediate rush threat Saffold no longer has anything holding him to help chip with Morse so he works to his gap side to double for when the defensive end will ultimately work back upfield on Dawkins. Once Morse sees Minkah isn't an initial rush threat his eyes go to backside A to punch the backside A gap rusher to help Bates overtake. As soon as Morse engages with the defender his eyes immediately go back to his gap side (left) because that's ultimately what he is responsible for. Once Morse sees Minkah try to add on he works to disengage from the backside A gap defender to pick up Minkah.

 

If Minkah had rushed immediately Saffold would have been involved in the block - if he rushed B gap Saffold would have him - if he rushed A gap Saffold would have punched to give Morse time to overtake, but would have gotten eyes back to his B gap after making initial contact with his punch.

 

Hope that helps clarify.

IN other words a delayed blitz

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

4 hours ago, TBBills said:

You don't know people then.

 

I see @Tom Donahoe, GM thinks he is a system QB. That didn't take long.

 

You drop in Petermans and you've got 4 hundo yards easy

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, scuba guy said:

I don't know even at that angle when he chest bumps brown Josh's looks 😳 really small.

 

 

But he jumps higher! White men really can jump! 😏 

[Jerome007]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I'll never forget my first visit to Rich Stadium as a kid. I was amazed at how small it all looked to me.

When I first saw it, "Home of the Buffalo Bills", I actually thought it was their practice center and went to a convenience store to ask for directions ha ha. Pre Google Map days. Pre smartphones in fact. Yes that world existed not THAT long ago.

 

But I thought the design genius with a part of the stadium below ground. Seemed cost effective to me. And as fans we are close to the field. Perfect (except for the few restrooms of course ha ha).

[Beck Water]

32 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

I'm running into the same issue with the pictures, but lets see if I can explain it without them. Fitzpatrick eliminates himself as an initial rush threat as soon as he steps backwards into coverage. You can see as soon as the ball is snapped both Saffold and Morse have eyes on Minkah because pre-snap he is a potential rush threat. Once he declares himself to no longer be an immediate rush threat Saffold no longer has anything holding him to help chip with Morse so he works to his gap side to double for when the defensive end will ultimately work back upfield on Dawkins. Once Morse sees Minkah isn't an initial rush threat his eyes go to backside A to punch the backside A gap rusher to help Bates overtake. As soon as Morse engages with the defender his eyes immediately go back to his gap side (left) because that's ultimately what he is responsible for. Once Morse sees Minkah try to add on he works to disengage from the backside A gap defender to pick up Minkah.

 

If Minkah had rushed immediately Saffold would have been involved in the block - if he rushed B gap Saffold would have him - if he rushed A gap Saffold would have punched to give Morse time to overtake, but would have gotten eyes back to his B gap after making initial contact with his punch.

 

Hope that helps clarify.

 

That's actually a very clear verbal description of what I see in the video, well done!

 

I guess my question is: if one step back is enough to remove a guy as an "threat" to a blocking scheme, how would one ever account for a delayed blitz?  It seems such a scheme would be entirely and perennially susceptible to that.

 

It seems to me that blocking rules have to be able to flex a bit (without rolling into free lancing) to account for the player personnel involved.  If I'm correct that's Cam Hayward Morse is blocking, it's unrealistic to expect Morse to hand him off to Bates like an unwanted sweater.  The minute he tries Hayward is gonna be onto Allen.  Double that SOB and keep him doubled.

 

And given that's Minkah Fitzpatrick,it seems to me he's using that step back to "sell" Saffold into dismissing him as a threat and turning/looking to his left, and it seems to me that as soon as Saffold "takes the cheese" Minkah shoots off. 

 

I wonder if Fina or Wood or someone else commented on that play.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Beck Water

[HoofHearted]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That's actually a very clear verbal description of what I see in the video, well done!

 

I guess my question is: if one step back is enough to remove a guy as an "threat" to a blocking scheme, how would one ever account for a delayed blitz?  It seems such a scheme would be entirely and perennially susceptible to that.

 

It seems to me that rules have to be able to flex a bit (without rolling into free lancing) to account for the personnel involved.  If I'm correct that's Cam Hayward, it's unrealistic to expect Morse to hand him off to Bates like an unwanted sweater.  Double that SOB.   

 

And given that's Minkah Fitzpatrick, it seems unrealistic to expect him to be eliminated as a blitz threat because he takes one step back.  It seems to me he's using that step back to "sell" Saffold into dismissing him as a threat and turning/looking to his left, and it seems to me that Saffold "takes the cheese".

 

I wonder if Fina or Wood or someone else commented on that play.

 

Saffold's eyes hang on Minkah for another second or two after the initial step back, but he can't just sit there and wait on it. He has to protect B gap. So if he were to just sit there with his eyes inside and the 5 tech who stayed outside on Dawkins instead ran some type of pinch and came into B gap he'd have a clear rush lane to the QB. Slide protection works because it's gap based.

 

Can't start making up rules based on who the personnel is in front of you on any given play. It muddies the waters and then you are just freelancing.

Edited October 13, 2022 by HoofHearted

[Beck Water]

29 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

Saffold's eyes hang on Minkah for another second or two after the initial step back, but he can't just sit there and wait on it. He has to protect B gap. So if he were to just sit there with his eyes inside and the 5 tech who stayed outside on Dawkins instead ran some type of pinch and came into B gap he'd have a clear rush lane to the QB. Slide protection works because it's gap based.

 

Can't start making up rules based on who the personnel is in front of you on any given play. It muddies the waters and then you are just freelancing.

 

I understand the point about not freelancing and making ***** up during the game.  I used to get frustrated with Jordan Phillips when he was here on the Bills before because he sometimes did just that on the D side instead of maintaining his gap integrity and it used to result in some gashes for big runs when he guessed wrong.

 

FWIW, I've heard several podcasts or shows where Eric Wood was talking about this, and his take-home point as I understood it was that rules are not enough to make a top OL in the NFL.  The guys and coaches have to be watching film and talking about the traits and tendencies of the specific players in specific situations and how they will modify their rules to handle them in-game.

 

 

[HoofHearted]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I understand the point about not freelancing and making ***** up during the game.  I used to get frustrated with Jordan Phillips when he was here on the Bills before because he sometimes did just that on the D side instead of maintaining his gap integrity and it used to result in some gashes for big runs when he guessed wrong.

 

FWIW, I've heard several podcasts or shows where Eric Wood was talking about this, and his take-home point as I understood it was that rules are not enough to make a top OL in the NFL.  The guys and coaches have to be watching film and talking about the traits and tendencies of the specific players in specific situations and how they will modify their rules to handle them in-game.

 

 

Oh 100%! Those are adjustments made throughout the week or on the sidelines/halftime during games though not on the fly during a play.

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Oh 100%! Those are adjustments made throughout the week or on the sidelines/halftime during games though not on the fly during a play.

 

Right, think we agree much more than we don't. 

 

So is stuff just not being discussed enough pre-game or what?

 

Because I'd bet you two beers that if we watched film of Minkah Fitzpatrick, he blitzes from that position the overwhelming majority of the time on a clear passing down.  And I'd add a bourbon on a bet that most C in the league who try to pass off Cam Hayward (and I'm assuming that's who that is, can't see his #s) will lose him.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Beck Water

[HoofHearted]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Right, think we agree much more than we don't. 

 

So is stuff just not being discussed enough pre-game or what?

 

Because I'd bet you two beers that if we watched film of Minkah Fitzpatrick, he blitzes from that position the overwhelming majority of the time on a clear passing down.  And I'd add a bourbon on a bet that most C in the league who try to pass off Cam Hayward (and I'm assuming that's who that is, can't see his #s) will lose him.

Minkah was actually a coverage player on that play. He had combo coverage on the back. When he stepped up away from him that's what gave him the ability to rush the pass since he became a free player.

[Shake_My_Head]

I love Josh getting up and flexing before Gabe even gets to the end zone!