Running Backs Being a Dime a Dozen ??

[Nelius]

RB's aren't a dime a dozen at all, but that doesn't mean that you reach for a good one. It's all about system fit nowadays. Motor fits. His ypc is really nice over the years. You could probably put him on a lamer team like the Commanders and he might churn out 1200 rushing yards (I think he's better than Gibson at this point) but it wouldn't matter anything to them because they'd still be terrible.

 

I think most agree that RB is very important, it's just not the gaudy stat producing position of the early '90s (Natrone Means knows what I mean), and you also don't usually need to pay very much for somebody serviceable. I'm perfectly fine with our group over Saquon or McCaffrey.

[Thurman#1]

On 10/12/2022 at 3:34 AM, T master said:

We have heard from the Experts & some here that feel that running backs are a dime a dozen they say you can basically plug in any running back into any system & it's the system or scheme that determines how good the running game will be the individual talent of the back has little or nothing to do with the out come of that stat or performance of that part of the team .

 

I beg to differ ! This year there are a few running backs that i would love to see in a Bills uni there out put each week would be a welcome sight & would make this team almost unstoppable .

 

There were a few running backs this week that despite not having a really good O line made their run games much better just by their individual talent . Some here say our run game is bad because of the O line play these guys made it happen despite their O lines short comings .

 

Josh Jacobs for the Raiders had 21 carries this week for 154 yds & 1 TD that's 7.3 ypc .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFya5KRQguE week 4 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFya5KRQguE week 5

 

Breece Hall of the Jets had 18 carries for 97 yds & 1 TD that's 5.4 ypc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFya5KRQguE

 

Dameon Peirce of the Texans had 26 carries for 99 yds & a TD and he made 17 people miss after contact & pulled out of the tackle 

 

Can you imagine either one of these backs behind Josh as a complimentary back with Motor other than Moss ? If every time the Bills needed to run they could depend on this type of out put even if as some here say the lack of O line play .

 

I have always thought that the "Experts" say that running backs are a dime a dozen is pretty much B S ! There are those backs out there that have above average talent & if we had gotten one say a AJ Dillion, or took Breece Hall when he was there or i liked Brian Robison our run game would be much better because these guys are worth at least .50 a dozen .

 

 

Dime a dozen is an exaggeration. It's a lazy way to say it. But is it reasonable to argue that spending a lot of resources on RBs has in general produced not much more production than waiting and picking a guy a bit later or paying a journeyman? Not unreasonable at all. 

 

And as has been said many times before, the problem with our run game is not the RBs. It's the OL. We would not be much better with the other guys you mention. A bit better, especially in aspects that each of those guys is better at (Dillon at power and CMC at evasiveness, speed and gadgetry, for example)? Yeah, probably fair enough. But not a lot better.

 

I wanted Dillon too but he was gone way too early. I love his toughness, but he was over-drafted.

 

The question isn't whether there are some RBs out there who were worth drafting early and spending serious resources on. There are. Guys like Jonathan Taylor, Nick Chubb, Derrick Henry and Mixon are worth it. CMC was worth drafting where they drafted him, but his health makes him questionable now. There just aren't that many of those guys who are worth drafting in the first round or paying a top 7 or 8 RB salary to. Very few.

 

1st rounders in the last few years, since 2010:  

 

CJ Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Jahvid Best, Mark Ingram, Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson, Todd Gurley, Melvin Gordon, Ezekiel Elliott (4th overall), Leonard Fournette, McCaffrey, Saquon, Rashaad Penny, Sony Michel, Josh Jacobs, Edwards-Helaire, Najee Harris, and Travis Etienne.

 

How many real difference makers there, out of 19 1st round picks. Several of those guys looked like difference makers but then either wore down, got injured and never were the same or just got dispirited.

 

And the difference in production to the team between the guys below those few difference-makers and everyone else just doesn't make it a good use of resources to spend major resources on an RB.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 10/13/2022 at 11:58 AM, ArtVandalay said:

Again didn't say any of this, you are really in your own world here having a conversation that doesn't exist. 

Right, we have the best QB in the NFL and throw a lot, I think everyone understands this.  I was merely illustrating that our line is not at fault for our rushing game, it is the running backs, and plenty of tabs are successful rushing without top line play due to RB ability.

 

 

You're not illustrating that at all, though you're trying to make the argument.

 

It really is the OL that's in for easily the largest amount of blame.

 

Hopefully that can improve as time passes and the OL gels, as it did last year near the end of the year.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 10/13/2022 at 4:35 AM, ArtVandalay said:

The New York Giants ar #26 at 69%.

 

Saquon Barkley is #2 in the NFL with 533 Yards Rushing and 5.5 YPC.

 

#1 Rusher in the NFL, Nick Chubb, has 593 yards and 6.1 YPC with the #17 line. 

 

#5 rusher Dameon Pierce has 412 yards (2 behind #4) and 4.8 YPC and is a rookie with the #31 line.

 

Meanwhile the #1 line in the league with James Connor rushing has only 200 yards and 3.7 YPC.

 

This only illustrates the importance of the skill of your RB, skilled RB with an NFL line will be productive. And if you don't have skill at RB you aren't going to produce.  

 

 

That's not a strong argument. It's cherry-picking and it's leaving out context.

 

Yeah, for people who don't go and look at the actual stats, it seems like the difference between the Bills' 65% and the Giants' 69% is tiny. But it's not. Not when the highest is 75%. The Giants are barely below average. The Bills are horrendous at 65%. Nobody else is at 65%. Or 66%. Only three teams are bad enough to be at 67%, the Commanders, Chargers and Texans. And only one is at 68%, the Patriots.

 

You're twisting what the numbers show, which is that the Bills are much worse than anyone else in the league at run blocking. So far.

 

Nobody's arguing that Barkley isn't damn good. He is right now. But with a near-average line. Not a truly sucky one like the Bills have up to now, though they do seem to be doing well when they use pin-and-pull blocking.

 

Oh, and yes, James Conner is at 3.7, but Eno Benjamin is at 4.5, and Darrel Williams is at 5.9.

 

It's never 100% OL or RB. It's always a combination of both. But when your OL is really bad, that will be the largest factor. This Bills team is awful at yards before contact, because the line sucks. And pretty solid at yards after contact because the RBs, most particularly Singletary, are good. Not great. But solid. 

 

Excluding Allen, 4.4 YPC behind a line that isn't just last but last by a lot. The RBs don't get much of the blame here.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Thurman#1

[T master]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Dime a dozen is an exaggeration. It's a lazy way to say it. But is it reasonable to argue that spending a lot of resources on RBs has in general produced not much more production than waiting and picking a guy a bit later or paying a journeyman? Not unreasonable at all. 

 

And as has been said many times before, the problem with our run game is not the RBs. It's the OL. We would not be much better with the other guys you mention. A bit better, especially in aspects that each of those guys is better at (Dillon at power and CMC at evasiveness, speed and gadgetry, for example)? Yeah, probably fair enough. But not a lot better.

 

I wanted Dillon too but he was gone way too early. I love his toughness, but he was over-drafted.

 

The question isn't whether there are some RBs out there who were worth drafting early and spending serious resources on. There are. Guys like Jonathan Taylor, Nick Chubb, Derrick Henry and Mixon are worth it. CMC was worth drafting where they drafted him, but his health makes him questionable now. There just aren't that many of those guys who are worth drafting in the first round or paying a top 7 or 8 RB salary to. Very few.

 

1st rounders in the last few years, since 2010:  

 

CJ Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Jahvid Best, Mark Ingram, Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson, Todd Gurley, Melvin Gordon, Ezekiel Elliott (4th overall), Leonard Fournette, McCaffrey, Saquon, Rashaad Penny, Sony Michel, Josh Jacobs, Edwards-Helaire, Najee Harris, and Travis Etienne.

 

How many real difference makers there, out of 19 1st round picks. Several of those guys looked like difference makers but then either wore down, got injured and never were the same or just got dispirited.

 

And the difference in production to the team between the guys below those few difference-makers and everyone else just doesn't make it a good use of resources to spend major resources on an RB.

 

 

 

All that being said i would really like to see the Bills utilize some of the players that they have had because you never know exactly what they might be until they are in the game .

 

Like this year they had Blackshear the dude was killing it in the preseason & showed good vision okay it was pre season & it wasn't against the starters but before you put him on the PS (Which they did & lost him) TRY HIM in a game see if what he was doing would translate to the field .

 

I know some might say well he's not doing anything now with the team he's on but some flourish in certain schemes better than others the same with the last guy they had the international player he flashed during preseason so what would it hurt to at least put them on the field for a game or 2 during the season ? 

 

I guess the coaches must see things that turns them off but there are those few that i just don't understand why they don't give them a shot .