Running Backs Being a Dime a Dozen ??

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

so in mocking the “experts” your sample size is 4 games from 3 guys. Convincing!

 

Josh Jacobs is so good that Vegas didn’t bother picking up his option year…

Some organizations are simply inept!! Also Jacobs was drafted by the previous administration. If they don’t re-sign him, he won’t be jobless long!!

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Let's just agree both the RB's and OL suck collectively. We have to do a better from our scouts on these 2 areas. We can't afford wasting top picks on guys like Ford, Moss etc.

 

I won't agree that our RBs suck.  Devin Singletary has put up solid YPC numbers since he joined the league.  It's simply not an offense in which RBs are going to look spectacular.  That is primarily because our run blocking is atrocious, but - as mentioned above in another user's post - Josh prefers shotgun and that doesn't help matters any for our RBs.

 

I will agree that Moss is a bust and we haven't seen enough of Cook to accurately judge him.

[HOUSE]

Nobody said Running backs are a dime a dozen,  it's two for a quarter 

[TBBills]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Decent RBs are a dime a dozen.

 

Good RBs are common.

 

Game Changers are rare. 

See easily explained and didn't need a mountain of text.

[Shaw66]

Well, I don't agree generally with the OP.  They ARE a dime a dozen. 

 

I kept reading because I thought he might convince me.   I stopped when he said look at Josh Jacobs last night running behind a "not good line."   Did anyone see his touchdown "run" from the 1 or 2 yard line?  He took the ball and got behind the right guard and literally walked into the end zone, as the right side of his offensive lineup pushed the defensive line three yards into the end zone.  He walked into the end zone.  

 

Devin Singletary would think he was in heaven if he could run behind that line. 

[unbillievable]

1st round runningbacks.

2021: 2 (Najee Harris 24th, Travis Etienne 25th)

2020: 1 (Clyde Edwards-Helaire 32nd)

2019: 1 (Josh Jacobs 24th)

2018: 3 (Saquon Barkley 2nd, Rashaad Penny 27th, Sony Michel 31st)

2017: 2 (Leonard Fournette 4th, Christian McCaffrey 8th)

2016: 1 (Ezekiel Elliott 4th)

2015: 2 (Todd Gurley 10th, Melvin Gordon 15th)

2014: None

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The single biggest reason the Bills don't run the ball more effectively is because Josh Allen prefers to play out of the shotgun.    

 

So the people who are constantly complaining about the running game should blame Josh and demand he changes or shut up.

 

I wouldn't mind them doing more of that..........I am not a big fan of spread offense football........but that's not what Allen is right now.........he's not as comfortable under center and turning his back to the defense for traditional play action.    

 

Nobody just pushes another team off the ball all game,   there has to be legitimate uncertainty in the mind of the defense and enough time between the snap to get them to commit.   You don't get that out of the gun.    For a while RPO's gave teams that but they aren't as effective any longer.   

 

 

 

Yeah, agree with this.  We both don't call many run plays and also don't run an offense where traditional run plays are ran from.  And we have still scored the most points in the NFL despite missing Davis (and him playing hurt in other games), Knox, McKenzie, and 5 of our OL at various times this year.  When our team is healthy, its playing at an unstoppable level right now, and people want to change that and take the ball out of Allens hands more, and I don't understand why.  

 

What we need is better play calling at times on short yardage...if they can clean that up, this offense has no flaws.   

 

On a side note...What is weird to me, is people will see us run with success multiple times in a game, but just focus on the couple runs that didn't work and then throw the whole run game under the bus as if its a disaster too.  Like no RB or team has success on every attempt.  But here, the board magnifies the ones that don't work and ignores that we actually run plenty of other times where we chewed big chunks or first downs.

 

 

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Umm pierce was a 4th round selection proving they are a dime a dozen … they are in every round 

This logic is airtight

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, T master said:

We have heard from the Experts & some here that feel that running backs are a dime a dozen they say you can basically plug in any running back into any system & it's the system or scheme that determines how good the running game will be the individual talent of the back has little or nothing to do with the out come of that stat or performance of that part of the team .

 

I beg to differ ! This year there are a few running backs that i would love to see in a Bills uni there out put each week would be a welcome sight & would make this team almost unstoppable .

 

There were a few running backs this week that despite not having a really good O line made their run games much better just by their individual talent . Some here say our run game is bad because of the O line play these guys made it happen despite their O lines short comings .

 

Josh Jacobs for the Raiders had 21 carries this week for 154 yds & 1 TD that's 7.3 ypc .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFya5KRQguE week 4 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFya5KRQguE week 5

 

Breece Hall of the Jets had 18 carries for 97 yds & 1 TD that's 5.4 ypc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFya5KRQguE

 

Dameon Peirce of the Texans had 26 carries for 99 yds & a TD and he made 17 people miss after contact & pulled out of the tackle 

 

Can you imagine either one of these backs behind Josh as a complimentary back with Motor other than Moss ? If every time the Bills needed to run they could depend on this type of out put even if as some here say the lack of O line play .

 

I have always thought that the "Experts" say that running backs are a dime a dozen is pretty much B S ! There are those backs out there that have above average talent & if we had gotten one say a AJ Dillion, or took Breece Hall when he was there or i liked Brian Robison our run game would be much better because these guys are worth at least .50 a dozen .

Look at Bills OL and YES they would not be any better than Singletary 

 

 

[0017]

Josh Jacob’s had a monster game and they ran the ball really well, when they needed 2 yards on that 2 point try they ran it, how did that work out? I’d rather we throw it 60 times a game and win easy. Having a quote “great” running is just not that important anymore. 

[mrags]

For everyone that wants to argue that our OL sucks at run blocking. I will not even begin to argue with you. You may be 100% correct in that. 
 

the fact is that a really good RB can hide the bad play of an OL. You might want to say that a really good OL can hide the play of a bad RB. This is true. But…. The fact is we would have to replace both guards and possibly our center to help hide that. It’s much easier to replace 1 RB than it is to replace 2 or 3 OL. Not to mention it’s easier to get a true stud RB with a 1st or 2nd pick than it is to get a stud IOL late in the first or 2nd rd. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Umm pierce was a 4th round selection proving they are a dime a dozen … they are in every round 

 

There’s a lot of talent that the running back spot in the NFL

 

Hall of Fame running backs are rare… There’s a lot of good running backs

This is the wrong conclusion. Pierce being a 4th Rd RB doesn't prove that RBs are a dime a dozen - it proves that NFL FOs have no clue how to evaluate RBs int he modern NFL. If you did a redraft today, he'd go in the 1st round.

It's true, there are a virtually endless pile of backs that you can hand the ball off to and have them plod for a 3.0 AYC. When it comes to special backs, they're just as rare now as they've ever been - maybe more because it isn't a position in demand. With more and more WRs taking their carries and sometimes their jobs outright, maybe the true workhorse RB dies for good.

[Don Otreply]

   Blanket statements such as;  “RBs are a dime a dozen” are always incorrect, like in all aspects of sport, there are players at all positions that are well above average in their skill set, RBs are no different.  In fact most QBs are average, one could even say a dime a dozen for those average QBs  but some QBs are actually “franchise” caliber, most are not.  It is no different for every position group, even those red headed step children on special teams…,
 

  The Bills either need an upgrade with three of their lineman, or better RBs, the overall costs are likely not very different between those options, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[unbillievable]

You dont pay Safeties, Runningbacks, Linebackers, or Interior OL.... unless they are superstars.

 

 

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

We have the worst run block win % in the entire league (65%).  The RBs aren't the problem.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34536376/2022-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams#rbwrteam

yep.
 But to be fair ,I expect it to improve as the season goes on and we can keep the O line on the field complete for a few games.
 Consider the Miami game, you just have to throw that game out for O line stats. Last week looked improved by the eye test

[prissythecat]

48 minutes ago, Dr. Football said:

Josh Jacob’s had a monster game and they ran the ball really well, when they needed 2 yards on that 2 point try they ran it, how did that work out? I’d rather we throw it 60 times a game and win easy. Having a quote “great” running is just not that important anymore. 

 

Throwing the ball 60 times isn't necessarily a good thing (unless perhaps if you are Tom Brady on the Pats)

 

https://www.footballperspective.com/the-patriots-are-19-9-when-tom-brady-throws-50-times/#:~:text=All quarterbacks have a 0.230,when throwing 50%2B passes….

 

From the article:

 

" All quarterbacks have a 0.230 winning percentage in games where they have thrown 50+ passes"...

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, agree with this.  We both don't call many run plays and also don't run an offense where traditional run plays are ran from.  And we have still scored the most points in the NFL despite missing Davis (and him playing hurt in other games), Knox, McKenzie, and 5 of our OL at various times this year.  When our team is healthy, its playing at an unstoppable level right now, and people want to change that and take the ball out of Allens hands more, and I don't understand why.  

 

What we need is better play calling at times on short yardage...if they can clean that up, this offense has no flaws.   

 

On a side note...What is weird to me, is people will see us run with success multiple times in a game, but just focus on the couple runs that didn't work and then throw the whole run game under the bus as if its a disaster too.  Like no RB or team has success on every attempt.  But here, the board magnifies the ones that don't work and ignores that we actually run plenty of other times where we chewed big chunks or first downs.

 

 

To pigeon hole what Bills do as compared to what or how RBs are measured  is unfair to Singletary.

 He is doing what is asked of him very well. Cook will succeed in Buffalo as well.
Kromer and Dorsey are still working out what works, and Allen will always be the lynchpin to that.

 I am not unhappy about Bills RBs. But there needs to be an evolution that has the O line improve at the run game and especially the short yard push.
gonna be tough with Morse at center. Just not his thing. Keep that factor in mind folks when looking at Bills run game.

[Green Lightning]

2 hours ago, gobills404 said:

The Raiders and Jets don't have have bad O-lines though....

 

Run block win rate rankings per ESPN:

Raiders - 2nd

Jets - 12th

Texans - 31st

Bills - 32nd

 

Yards per carry:

Jacobs - 5.4

Hall - 4.9

Pierce - 4.8

Bills RBs - 4.7

 

Nearly a perfect correlation.

 

 

Don't confuse us with facts!

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, T master said:

We have heard from the Experts & some here that feel that running backs are a dime a dozen they say you can basically plug in any running back into any system & it's the system or scheme that determines how good the running game will be the individual talent of the back has little or nothing to do with the out come of that stat or performance of that part of the team .

 

I beg to differ ! This year there are a few running backs that i would love to see in a Bills uni there out put each week would be a welcome sight & would make this team almost unstoppable .

 

There were a few running backs this week that despite not having a really good O line made their run games much better just by their individual talent . Some here say our run game is bad because of the O line play these guys made it happen despite their O lines short comings .

 

Josh Jacobs for the Raiders had 21 carries this week for 154 yds & 1 TD that's 7.3 ypc .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFya5KRQguE week 4 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFya5KRQguE week 5

 

Breece Hall of the Jets had 18 carries for 97 yds & 1 TD that's 5.4 ypc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFya5KRQguE

 

Dameon Peirce of the Texans had 26 carries for 99 yds & a TD and he made 17 people miss after contact & pulled out of the tackle 

 

Can you imagine either one of these backs behind Josh as a complimentary back with Motor other than Moss ? If every time the Bills needed to run they could depend on this type of out put even if as some here say the lack of O line play .

 

I have always thought that the "Experts" say that running backs are a dime a dozen is pretty much B S ! There are those backs out there that have above average talent & if we had gotten one say a AJ Dillion, or took Breece Hall when he was there or i liked Brian Robison our run game would be much better because these guys are worth at least .50 a dozen .

 

So Breece Hall had 18 for 97 - pretty much exactly what Moss and Cook have done- both are at 5.3 YPC.

 

So what exactly is your point.  The difference is Hall, Pierce, Jacobs all get significantly more carries per game.  
 

I can imagine any of them on the Bills, but can you picture Jacobs or Hall after getting 10 carries a game.  I do not want to take the ball out of Josh’s hand for 20+ runs a game - Josh averages passing is double what Jacobs averages on the ground and his great running has made his team an incredible 1-4.  
 

They would not get the volume here to make a difference to the offense.  They make a difference in an offense that has a mediocre QB and you are covering for him.  
 

 

[Chaos]

2 hours ago, gobills404 said:

The Raiders and Jets don't have have bad O-lines though....

 

Run block win rate rankings per ESPN:

Raiders - 2nd

Jets - 12th

Texans - 31st

Bills - 32nd

 

Yards per carry:

Jacobs - 5.4

Hall - 4.9

Pierce - 4.8

Bills RBs - 4.7

 

Nearly a perfect correlation.

 

 

This might be interestin if it compared 1)All RBs from the other teams to the Bills and 2) the RBsw within a system. If it is all oline, then there should no statistical differerance among the RBs on a team. 

Running attacks should be evaluated primarily by situational statistics.  Which running attack converts third and 3 or third and 2 into a first down, the most often.   That is the running attack I want.