Hot take: Shakir should be the starting slot receiver going forward

[BillsShredder83]

12 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

He has 15 receptions in four games for three TDs, and a catch rate of 71.4%

Shakir has 5 receptions in three games for one TD, and a catch rate of 55.6%.

 

What are you talking about?

How many of those has he looked dangerous? And how many of those were screens?

How many have been key third down catches for first?

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

How many of those has he looked dangerous? And how many of those were screens?

How many have been key third down catches for first?

 

Of his 15 catches... 3TDs and 9 1st downs. 

[BananaB]

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Of his 15 catches... 3TDs and 9 1st downs. 

How are you guys going by game stats, sure Shakir has been activated but he’s hardly played besides 5 quarters. Any other time before that was probably mop up duty with Keenum. Kind of unfair comparison. 
 

To me Shakir just looks the better player. Nothing against McKenzie, I like him as well I just think the rook is better. He has earned more time on the field. 

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, BananaB said:

 

How are you guys going by game stats, sure Shakir has been activated but he’s hardly played besides 5 quarters. Any other time before that was probably mop up duty with Keenum. Kind of unfair comparison. 
 

To me Shakir just looks the better player. Nothing against McKenzie, I like him as well I just think the rook is better. He has earned more time on the field. 

 

If you go back to my first contribution to this thread I said I'd still have a role for Isaiah because he is good at those man beaters but that I'd slant the job share in the slot towards Shakir in terms of playing time. 

 

The post you quoted was simply me responding to someone who suggested McKenzie's catches hadn't been of value. The numbers prove otherwise. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 10/10/2022 at 12:31 PM, TheBrownBear said:

  Not sure we've even had a guy like that in the past 20 years.

 

Bobby trees 

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hmm. Disagree. I saw Diggs destroy one of the best corners in the league in Darius Slay as an outside guy in his rookie year. It was the first time I'd even heard of him let alone seen him play and I was totally sold there and then.

 

People seem to think I am down on Shakir. I am not and never have been. I think he is really talented. But I think he is a slot receiver and nothing the Bills coaches or personnel people have said or done leads me to believe they really see it any differently. Sure he can take snaps wide in certain packages. But he isn't Stefon Diggs. He isn't Cooper Kupp. Both comparisons have been made in this thread. He is far closer to a Julian Edelman than either of those guys. And that isn't a bad thing. Edelman was one of the best slot receivers in football.

 

But Gunner, isn't that the thing with talented players who develop into stars?  Sure, Diggs had 100 yd games as a rookie. Talented players absolutely flash early - have a great game where they just kill another NFL team or a talented NFL peer. 

 

Then we separate the men from the boys as the talented players who are missing an ingredient - work ethic, fire in their belly to be the very best, elite physical traits, mental focus, field vision and processing speed, whatever it is - flash occasionally and overall squib, while the talented players who have those traits rise and shine consistently.

 

Changing to your second topic:

I've seen people ask here why we don't use McKenzie's speed more deep.  He's not elite at tracking the ball in the air.  But the real reason is something McKenzie himself said in his GoLong/Isaiah McKenzie show talking about how he grew up playing football, something to the effect of "I'd line up across from a guy 6" taller than me and 40 pounds heavier, and I'd say "that's OK, I'm quicker than you, I'm faster than you - unless he got his hands on me, then I'm in trouble."  The "muscle hamster" knows he can be jammed and can't break free against a "muscle puma" who is just as strong pound for pound but has 40 more pounds of muscle to work with,2-3 more inches of arm, and who pretty well knows just where he's gonna go - up the sideline.

 

Well, as others have noted, Shakir has the height and the frame to hold muscle, but his arms are actually about the same length as McKenzie's, 3" shorter than a top corner like Tre White.  That kind of thing can theoretically be overcome with technique, but he's going to have to focus there and develop.  Right now, you're correct he can be jammed and held.

 

I'm not so certain as you that the Bills see Shakir strictly as a slot.  Davis has said Shakir is filling the role he took as a rookie, which was fundamentally knowing all the WR roles and being able to play any of them.  That said, did we ever see Davis lined up in the slot?  I can't recall.  So knowing and doing, not same thing. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Beck Water

[DapperCam]

McKenzie might be better if we are playing a defense going man coverage. He can literally just outrun the coverage as we saw vs NE last year. Shakir seems more well rounded to me though. He was playing outside in the preseason, maybe he starts rotating in more for Diggs and Davis when they need a breather.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

But Gunner, isn't that the thing with talented players who develop into stars?  Sure, Diggs had 100 yd games as a rookie. Talented players absolutely flash early - have a great game where they just kill another NFL team or a talented NFL peer. 

 

Then we separate the men from the boys as the talented players who are missing an ingredient - work ethic, fire in their belly to be the very best, elite physical traits, mental focus, field vision and processing speed, whatever it is - flash occasionally and overall squib, while the talented players who have those traits rise and shine consistently.

 

Changing to your second topic:

I've seen people ask here why we don't use McKenzie's speed more deep.  He's not elite at tracking the ball in the air.  But the real reason is something McKenzie himself said in his GoLong/Isaiah McKenzie show talking about how he grew up playing football, something to the effect of "I'd line up across from a guy 6" taller than me and 40 pounds heavier, and I'd say "that's OK, I'm quicker than you, I'm faster than you - unless he got his hands on me, then I'm in trouble."  The "muscle hamster" knows he can be jammed and can't break free against a "muscle puma" who is just as strong pound for pound but has 40 more pounds of muscle to work with,2-3 more inches of arm, and who pretty well knows just where he's gonna go - up the sideline.

 

Well, as others have noted, Shakir has the height and the frame to hold muscle, but his arms are actually about the same length as McKenzie's, 3" shorter than a top corner like Tre White.  That kind of thing can theoretically be overcome with technique, but he's going to have to focus there.

 

I'm not so certain as you that the Bills see Shakir strictly as a slot.  Davis has said Shakir is filling the role he took as a rookie, which was fundamentally knowing all the WR roles and being able to play any of them.  That said, did we ever see Davis lined up in the slot?  I can't recall.  So knowing and doing, not same thing. 

 

I don't disagree with much of this. And one of Shakir's issues is getting off press. That is why those guys end up in the slot where you get a lot of free releases. There is nothing wrong with being a really good slot receiver. Hell, Cooper Kupp is primarily a slot receiver who benefits from a ton of free releases but he is elite. I don't think Shakir is Cooper Kupp. Doesn't have the same functional strength and explosion, but I think he is going to be a really fine slot receiver in the NFL. 

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't disagree with much of this. And one of Shakir's issues is getting off press. That is why those guys end up in the slot where you get a lot of free releases. There is nothing wrong with being a really good slot receiver. Hell, Cooper Kupp is primarily a slot receiver who benefits from a ton of free releases but he is elite. I don't think Shakir is Cooper Kupp. Doesn't have the same functional strength and explosion, but I think he is going to be a really fine slot receiver in the NFL. 

 

Time Will Tell.

 

Bills have a lot of guys on the team who have made themselves into the players they are today.  Yo Cookie, I'm talking about you.

 

Shakir seems like the type to take coaching and grind "smarter".   And while I'd bet Boise State has better facilities than many would expect, I don't think it's exactly known as a training and player development powerhouse.

 

So I wouldn't bet a dime that his functional strength and explosion won't skyrocket.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Beck Water

[SCBills]

All I know is that speed up the sideline and the contested catch amongst three defenders were special.  

 

His most routine play was a route where he got wide open 15 yards down the field and just flubbed the catch.  We know he's got reliable hands, so I'm not too worried about it. 

 

He doesn't look like a speed guy, but he does run a 4.4 and that football speed up the sideline was legit. 

 

He doesn't look like a contested catch guy, but he's done that in college and showed two prime examples of it on Sunday.

 

We know he's a good route runner.   That's been evident in college and reinforced throughout camp. 

 

Combine that with his RAC ability, being touted as a Deebo-lite kind of player in that regard, and I think we may have something special here in Shakir. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

All I know is that speed up the sideline and the contested catch amongst three defenders were special.  

 

His most routine play was a route where he got wide open 15 yards down the field and just flubbed the catch.  We know he's got reliable hands, so I'm not too worried about it. 

 

He doesn't look like a speed guy, but he does run a 4.4 and that football speed up the sideline was legit. 

 

He doesn't look like a contested catch guy, but he's done that in college and showed two prime examples of it on Sunday.

 

We know he's a good route runner.   That's been evident in college and reinforced throughout camp. 

 

Combine that with his RAC ability, being touted as a Deebo-lite kind of player in that regard, and I think we may have something special here in Shakir. 

 

Mckenzie has been pretty clutch for buffalo in the RZ so far this year, and he's tough in man.  I'm not taking away the majority of his snaps for a rookie after a game that he was ruled out of based on injury.  It's a fluid position - they'll both play.  

[billrooter]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:36 AM, Logic said:

I know, I know -- it's early, and you'll say I'm jumping the gun.

I don't care. I've seen enough: Khalil Shakir should be the starting slot receiver going forward, even when McKenzie and Crowder return to full health.

At the very least, he should be splitting reps with McKenzie and seeing more playing time than Jamison Crowder.

He runs great routes. He constantly seems to get open. He has relatively sure hands (one bad concentration drop yesterday not withstanding). He offers run-after-catch ability that this offense often lacks. He has the frame and build to withstand the tough over-the-middle work. 

Aside from all of that, he just passes the eyeball test in a way that the Bills' other two slot options do not. Frankly, he looks like a star in the making.

I love McKenzie as a player and am glad he's on the roster, but has he looked like a dynamic full time slot option to anyone over the first four games? He hasn't looked that way to me. I like Crowder, too. He's a solid, dependable veteran depth option. Again, though: he doesn't seem to pop off the screen the way Shakir was.

I have figured all along that Shakir would be brought along slowly, that he'd be more of a contender for starting duties in 2023 or 2024. Given McDermott's M.O., that still may happen. I don't think it should, though. I've seen enough. He's the best option to start in the slot. The coaches always preach getting the best players on the field, regardless of tenure or pedigree. If they're true to their word, Shakir should start seeing more opportunities. I hope he doIhavent 

I can't say I've read this take on here, though I'm no to here often. I guess I just assumed most like me figured this was the inevitable at some point watching g him play in the preseason. So I'm not sure this take is as hot.as you think it is?

Just now, billrooter said:

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by billrooter

[Mat68]

I think he has earned more snaps.  I wouldn't just give it to him.  Not crazy hot though.  Mckenzie has a connection with Allen.  I believe he has taken Crowders snaps going forward.  He is where many have wanted or hoped for when he was drafted and showed in preseason.  He is the 4th guy at Wr.  Im happy with him anywhere while Davis, Diggs or Mckenzie come out.  His growth along with Cook allows the offense to become even more dynamic and grow through the year.    

[Manther]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:58 AM, Bob in STL said:

 

Shakir looks versatile and can rotate in and sub for any of the three (McKenzie, Davis, Diggs).  Whether Shakir "starts" is not important.  He will play and he will get targets. I like the possibility that we can move him around.  He will make plays.  

 

Not sure we are going to see much of Crowder with his injury.  Kumerow will go back to ST mostly.  

 

 

Agree completely!

 

[RocCityRoller]

I don't think this suggestion is that far out there.

 

Last season it was Diggs, Sanders/Davis outside, Beasley in the slot and McKenzie lined up all over the place or in 4 WR sets.

 

Basically the suggestion is Diggs, Davis outside with Shakir replacing Beasley in the slot and McKenzie reverting to his role the past two seasons.

 

A question is will Dorsey use 4WR sets, or McKenzie in that role? We have seen few jet sweeps or end arounds with McKenzie or anyone this season. I'd lke to see McKenzie back in that role. A lot of time those plays have been needed sparks to help the offense get into a groove. They also help keep defenses on their toes.

 

I also think Shakir is a guy who can get into a rhythm and get on a roll. Just a feeling from offseason and last week's game.

Edited October 12, 2022 by RocCityRoller

[Mat68]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

But Gunner, isn't that the thing with talented players who develop into stars?  Sure, Diggs had 100 yd games as a rookie. Talented players absolutely flash early - have a great game where they just kill another NFL team or a talented NFL peer. 

 

Then we separate the men from the boys as the talented players who are missing an ingredient - work ethic, fire in their belly to be the very best, elite physical traits, mental focus, field vision and processing speed, whatever it is - flash occasionally and overall squib, while the talented players who have those traits rise and shine consistently.

 

Changing to your second topic:

I've seen people ask here why we don't use McKenzie's speed more deep.  He's not elite at tracking the ball in the air.  But the real reason is something McKenzie himself said in his GoLong/Isaiah McKenzie show talking about how he grew up playing football, something to the effect of "I'd line up across from a guy 6" taller than me and 40 pounds heavier, and I'd say "that's OK, I'm quicker than you, I'm faster than you - unless he got his hands on me, then I'm in trouble."  The "muscle hamster" knows he can be jammed and can't break free against a "muscle puma" who is just as strong pound for pound but has 40 more pounds of muscle to work with,2-3 more inches of arm, and who pretty well knows just where he's gonna go - up the sideline.

 

Well, as others have noted, Shakir has the height and the frame to hold muscle, but his arms are actually about the same length as McKenzie's, 3" shorter than a top corner like Tre White.  That kind of thing can theoretically be overcome with technique, but he's going to have to focus there and develop.  Right now, you're correct he can be jammed and held.

 

I'm not so certain as you that the Bills see Shakir strictly as a slot.  Davis has said Shakir is filling the role he took as a rookie, which was fundamentally knowing all the WR roles and being able to play any of them.  That said, did we ever see Davis lined up in the slot?  I can't recall.  So knowing and doing, not same thing. 

Shakir was a drop from breaking 100 yards in his first start.  Most of his targets came in the first half.  Not a garbage time stat pile.  He is different than Diggs and Davis. Where he fits is he has the same feel like both Diggs and Davis as rookies.  He looks like a pro wr already.  Is his career going to be him eating in the slot?  Yes.  Unlike other slot guys Beasley or Mckenzie he is an honest cover outside.  Motioning Davis or Diggs inside  Shakir has enough to threaten coverage.  More multiple and less predictable.  I wouldnt go 50/50 slot outside but 60/40 to 70/30 is what I expect and makes the offense immensely more difficult to predict.   

[Manther]

On 10/10/2022 at 11:58 AM, RyanC883 said:

this is not a "hot take."!  I agree he should be the slot going forward.  He seems tough and makes contested catches, etc.  

 

I'd like to see Digs, Davis, McKenzie and Shakir out there in 4 wide.  Good luck defense.  Singletary/Cook in backfield.  IS it a run>?  If not, how do you cover all those guys?  

Totally agree.  Try to stop us.  Cook will also help to the explosiveness when he earns the coaches trust.  He can fly like Shakir!

[Bobby Hooks]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:36 AM, Logic said:

I know, I know -- it's early, and you'll say I'm jumping the gun.

I don't care. I've seen enough: Khalil Shakir should be the starting slot receiver going forward, even when McKenzie and Crowder return to full health.

At the very least, he should be splitting reps with McKenzie and seeing more playing time than Jamison Crowder.

He runs great routes. He constantly seems to get open. He has relatively sure hands (one bad concentration drop yesterday not withstanding). He offers run-after-catch ability that this offense often lacks. He has the frame and build to withstand the tough over-the-middle work. 

Aside from all of that, he just passes the eyeball test in a way that the Bills' other two slot options do not. Frankly, he looks like a star in the making.

I love McKenzie as a player and am glad he's on the roster, but has he looked like a dynamic full time slot option to anyone over the first four games? He hasn't looked that way to me. I like Crowder, too. He's a solid, dependable veteran depth option. Again, though: he doesn't seem to pop off the screen the way Shakir was.

I have figured all along that Shakir would be brought along slowly, that he'd be more of a contender for starting duties in 2023 or 2024. Given McDermott's M.O., that still may happen. I don't think it should, though. I've seen enough. He's the best option to start in the slot. The coaches always preach getting the best players on the field, regardless of tenure or pedigree. If they're true to their word, Shakir should start seeing more opportunities. I hope he does.

I agree that he should, but I have serious doubts that they will. Like you mentioned it’s very odd considering they preach the best players getting the time.  
 

It’s the exact reason I was bummed when we signed Sanders, not that we couldn’t use the depth but I knew that it would cut severely into Gabe’s time which is exactly what it did. Gabe was ready to take that step last year, as evidenced by all of the clutch sideline grabs and KC game when he was given the shot. 
 

I feel like the Sanders signing was Beane having the opportunity to get him when he couldn’t the year before. I’m hoping Shakir’s play will show them he needs to be on the field. But like Gabe last year, I feel his playing time will depend on whether or not McKenzie is 100% or close to it. 

[akcash]

Shakir has some Fred Jackson to him. Not overly fast but just savvy and knows how to get extra chunk yards when it looks like nothing's there.

[Billever76]

At the very least Shakir makes it so Jamison Crowder should get an injury settlement and shown the door

On 10/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, BidsJr said:

The way he plays and moves, I see a lot of Andre Reed in him.

Or Stevie johnson

On 10/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, BidsJr said:

The way he plays and moves, I see a lot of Andre Reed in him.

Or Stevie johnson

On 10/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, BidsJr said:

The way he plays and moves, I see a lot of Andre Reed in him.

Or Stevie johnson

On 10/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, BidsJr said:

The way he plays and moves, I see a lot of Andre Reed in him.

Or Stevie johnson

On 10/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, BidsJr said:

The way he plays and moves, I see a lot of Andre Reed in him.

Or Stevie johnson

On 10/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, BidsJr said:

The way he plays and moves, I see a lot of Andre Reed in him.

Or Stevie johnson

On 10/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, BidsJr said:

The way he plays and moves, I see a lot of Andre Reed in him.

Or Stevie johnson

On 10/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, BidsJr said:

The way he plays and moves, I see a lot of Andre Reed in him.

Or Stevie johnson