col_forbin Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 whew!!!! I'm just glad no one mentioned L. Smith !!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 whew!!!! I'm just glad no one mentioned L. Smith !!!!!!!! 338247[/snapback] Wasn't he a safety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brihs2005 Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 whew!!!! I'm just glad no one mentioned L. Smith !!!!!!!! 338247[/snapback] I miss players with his type of personality though. How many current NFLers care so much about the team that is paying them that they would shave their logo into the side of their head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Nate was the only one to make multiple PB. 338163[/snapback] That may change by the end of this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Did you happen to catch the thread over on Washington's board that somebody posted a month or two ago? Their assessments of Clements' value in a draft-day trade were just hysterical. Not to mention that Smith was by far the best player on the Jags O that day, single-handedly rescuing his team on more than one occasion. Cya P.S. If I made a top 5 list it'd probably look exactly like yours. 338063[/snapback] also, recall that in that same game, clements fought smith for a ball and came up with the int. the next play, bledsoe hit moulds for a td. clements is great, although i'm not sure he's the best in the league. mcallister is pretty good, as is samari rolle and ty law when healthy. AW is one of the best in any case. didn't shawn springs have a terrific year for the skins last year? champ bailey is pretty damn good too (i'm taking dr. z's advice not to be fooled by a couple of perfect throws against him last year that were caught for big plays). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 AW is one of the best in any case. 338275[/snapback] whoops - i meant to say NC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col_forbin Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Wasn't he a safety? 338256[/snapback] Not sure....either way he doesn't deserve to be on the list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Actually I was only referring to his work as a corner. I'm not fond of the cavalier way in which he handles punts, but I still think he's the best corner on the planet right now.Yeah and then forced 3 more on top of it for a total of 4 in the biggest game of the year! You're a mad, mad dog Kelly. I'll agree that Antoine is still a little better in the short zones than Nate, but Clements is far superior to Winfield everywhere else on the field. Cya 338050[/snapback] Sim- I actually think the conversation is falling into the trap where its interpreted that if one doesn't agree that Clements is the #1 or #2 Bills CB in the last 15 years therefore your're insisting he sucks, I do like AW for what he showed as a Bill better than I like Clements for what he has shown. However, I think that Clements is one of my favorite Bills performers right now, I think he deserved the Pro Bowl nod last year (I was actually surprised that it took an injured starter for him to slip in, and I think there is a pretty good chance he will remain a Bill because even though his salary demands will escalate to a level no mere football player deserves and even relative to other football players on the team he doesn't merit (WM's play for example is more critical to whether we wibn or lose and he has even better prospects than Clements to be a difference maker in the future, but he is paid by the slotting, by career time, and the vaguries of injuries to get far less $ than Clements. Just cause in my football judgment I like AW over Clements does not mean I think Clements sucks. Overall, i simply feel that AW has shown the rare ability to be most important player on the field through his consistent action as he not only can nullify extraordinarily good receivers be they fleet WRs or big TE receivers, but his hits are do wicked on anyone crossing the middle that he has the all the receivers hearing footsteps. Clements is a much better INT guy than AW, but he can be raped with game-turning results as well as the oft mentioned Jimmy Smith catch demonstrates. He's great but there is still a bit to much feast or famine in his play for me to be worried about facing him as an opponent. If I'm an opponent, I'm worried about AW on each and every play whether its a run play or a pass. Not only am I not as concerned about Clements on run plays, but I'm happy to take my chances with a quick hitch pass to a WR and let him take on Clements one and one and try to make him miss. He will get me sometimes and may even strip the ball, but I know I will get him sometimes and may take him to the house. On the other hand, if I face AW trying to stop my run, odds are I going to get tackled and on less I am careful I might get hurt. I think one of the factors that gets skewed because we tend to rely on examples to much and claim they prove all points is that they actually make Clements look worse than he was in his initial years and make him look better than he is now. During Clements initial years, there are several examples like the one cited regarding Moss ripping him a new one where Clements actually got tested a lot because the rookie or at least youngster was a far better target than AW. There are examples or I remember Clements getting taken a few times as a younger player because opposing QBs and OCs chose to pick on him rather than AW. Clements actually impressed me as a younger player because even though he saw a lot of action and got took sometimes, he held his own and also took opponents like Manning to the house sometimes. Last year as well though, Clements sometimes shut down opponents because QBs would choose not to throw his way when they had the young learning McGee to pick on. In general I think he did shut down opponents, but part of this was his deserved rep because you ran the risk of an INT if you went his way and there was much better picking on the other side. A key for me is that as much as I loved AW and his hitting and cover ability, i was fine about letting him walk rather than paying him a mint because I was confident Clements could step up to the#1 slot and McGee could be the number 2. Vincent was nice transitional overkill if McGee could not do it. This year I also feel fine about Clements walking if necessary (I don't think it will be with a larger cap) because I am pretty comfortable that with another year of experience McGee can step up and I see a couple of candidates (Thomas and Greer for the #2 CB job). Even more fun Vincent may well still be around for transition and we also acquired a 4 year starter in the draft. I agree that Clements is one of the best Bills CBs in the last 15, but though great I do not see him as essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 1. Odomes- big play guy, great at jamming WR's 2. Winfield- Great all around player 3. Clements- has the potential to move up 4. Kerner- underrated cover guy 5. Smith- good cover guy, stone hands 6. Burris- a bit slow, but very smart 7. Kirby Jackson- underappreciated cover guy across from Odomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 In no particular order (These guys to me were the best Bills that I've seen at corner, but I can't say who was the best among them): -Nate Clements -Antoine Winfield -Nate Odomes -Charlie Romes -Derrick Burroughs (if only his career wasn't shortened) -Thomas Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 AW: better brains, maybe tougher NC: better based on pure athletic ability They are pretty different corners depending on what you want out of one and what system you are running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 In no particular order (These guys to me were the best Bills that I've seen at corner, but I can't say who was the best among them): -Nate Clements -Antoine Winfield -Nate Odomes -Charlie Romes -Derrick Burroughs (if only his career wasn't shortened) -Thomas Smith 338303[/snapback] What about tony green, one of the bills' greats? and mario clark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 What about tony green, one of the bills' greats? and mario clark? 338308[/snapback] I forgot about Green.. you're right. I wouldn't quite put Mario in that list although he was pretty good at times. I thought Romes was a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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