Coaching and Preparation…an example…

[eball]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Wallace literally was defending the sideline against nobody on the last play where Kelce made the reception...I'm like WTF are you doing?  There is nobody out there to cover and it wasn't important to cover the sideline as KC had a timeout anyway and the clock was their enemy not using a TO at that point.

 

Yeah, I don't want to sidetrack this thread but that's my point.  There's no way Frazier called for him to do that.  No way.

[Since1981]

We all have to admit the 4th down “go for it” calls come from Sean and then executed well. That is a real, in game choice. The days of punting at the 50 are a distant nightmare. I feel like D “prevent D” calls are more suspect but maybe Miller changes this calculation. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Since1981

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Here's what we know...not what we assume:

 

-- ST coach Heath Farwell "resigned" his job with the Bills days after Tyler Bass kicked a touchback.

-- Levi Wallace said in a podcast that he got "lost in the moment" of the final 13 seconds.

-- the Bills did play "non-aggressively" during the two plays post-kickoff.

 

I didn't say coaching "didn't play a part at all" -- never have.  I said too many people are blaming the loss solely on coaching.  It's not a difficult distinction to make.

 

Also, when I say "coaching" I'm really referring to McDermott.

 

I think the loss at KC was a combination of Farwell effing up the KO call and certain players (Wallace) not doing their jobs.  You'll never get me to believe Frazier called a defense that left Kelce alone down the seam.  A player screwed up.  They still had to make a 50-yard FG in the cold to tie.

 

But that's not what this thread is about.

 

 

-- The Bills used two timeouts on defense after seeing the offensive formation, and then ran the same defensive call anyway.

 

Mahomes himself said, on the throw to Kelce, if they see the same formation to run a particular pattern, i.e., "Do it Kels, do it!" The Bills timeout allowed them to get into that adjustment, kick the field goal, and ultimately go to the championship game.

 

Time compression and chaos favors the defense and hurts the offense. Unless you have 12 guys out there or see an obvious mismatch, I posit it's almost always a mistake to use a timeout on defense in that situation, it will help the offense more than the defense 9 out of 10 times. 

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, Haslett_Stomp said:

 

This is an excellent point.  Didn't the Bills have difficulty scoring in the 3rd quarter last season?  IIRC people were complaining they always came out flat after halftime.

 

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah, they used to go 3 and out on an alarming amount of their opening 3rd quarter possessions but overall they were actually pretty good...6th highest scoring team last year in the 3rd quarter averaging 6.3 points per game.  Were also excellent on D in the 3rd quarter last year although not quite as good as they have ben this year, allowing only an average of 2.8 points per game by opponents, 2nd best in the NFL to Cincinnati's 2.5.

 

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah, we had a running joke in one of the group chats about the "dreaded 3rd quarter", and folks not bothering to come back from halftime until the 4th quarter. They really turned that around. Great stuff to see in the development of a first time Head Coach and his staff.

 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Cherry picking is my favourite thing to do.....  

 

Yes a great play and a great call.....  All this after Baltimore marched 95 yards and converted two third and long plays.  There are so many plays in a game that can be singled out.        

 

I know you were a Bills fan in 1972.................what happened between then and 2022?

Baltimore marched and then this happened.

 

[BullBuchanan]

6 hours ago, eball said:

 

Those in-game calls are few and far between, and can be said for every team in the league — even those considered to have the best coaches.

 

Did you see the chart that ranks the Bills #1 in correctly making 4th down decisions?  Did you see the awesome clock management last week leading to two end of half scores that essentially decided the game?  That’s in-game coaching.

 

Pessimistic, nay-saying fans are a huge drag.  In every stinking game you can cherry-pick a call or two you’d second guess or make differently.  Every. Game.  The next time I see any HC, OC, and DC call the “perfect” game will be the first.

 

It’s not “insightful” or “realistic” to cherry-pick a couple of decisions a game to criticize, when no team or coach in the league is immune.

 

Stuff like what I posted is much more insightful (IMO) in seeing how this team gets ready for a football game.

 

Don't you think that's how just about every team prepares though? they all study film, playbooks, do walkthroughs, strategize, plan situational decisions, etc. In the end, a lot of it comes down to talent combined with how well what you decided to prepare for matches up with what your opponent decided to do and how your players execute.

Talented teams make coaches look brilliant.

[eball]

6 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Don't you think that's how just about every team prepares though? they all study film, playbooks, do walkthroughs, strategize, plan situational decisions, etc. In the end, a lot of it comes down to talent combined with how well what you decided to prepare for matches up with what your opponent decided to do and how your players execute.

Talented teams make coaches look brilliant.

 

No, I don't.  There is a vast gap in competence among coaching staffs.  All NFL teams have talent.  We see evidence of teams who are and are not adequately "prepared" on a weekly basis.

 

[BullBuchanan]

13 minutes ago, eball said:

 

No, I don't.  There is a vast gap in competence among coaching staffs.  All NFL teams have talent.  We see evidence of teams who are and are not adequately "prepared" on a weekly basis.

 

 

Saying that a team isn't well prepared or that coach(es) are not competent doesn't really convey any meaning of substance. I think it's a lot more nuanced than that. The coaches and front office that make up this organization aren't unilaterally the best of the best, but the situation they are in allows them to perform to a very high (maybe even the maximum) level.

Many of them are not on their first kick at the can and a lot of these hires are based on who they know rather than independent searches.  Frazier has been in the league 20 years and never had #1 defenses until last year. He's been fired plenty of times, but the situation he's in here in enabling him to excel. It doesn't mean he's the smartest, most qualified DC in the league. He has his flaws just like anyone.

There are only a small handful of coaches that have been able to reproduce top-end success in multiple situations and sustain it, and they often do it with the help of elite players.

[eball]

19 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Saying that a team isn't well prepared or that coach(es) are not competent doesn't really convey any meaning of substance. I think it's a lot more nuanced than that. The coaches and front office that make up this organization aren't unilaterally the best of the best, but the situation they are in allows them to perform to a very high (maybe even the maximum) level.

Many of them are not on their first kick at the can and a lot of these hires are based on who they know rather than independent searches.  Frazier has been in the league 20 years and never had #1 defenses until last year. He's been fired plenty of times, but the situation he's in here in enabling him to excel. It doesn't mean he's the smartest, most qualified DC in the league. He has his flaws just like anyone.

There are only a small handful of coaches that have been able to reproduce top-end success in multiple situations and sustain it, and they often do it with the help of elite players.

 

Wait, so you're saying some coaches improve in their jobs over time, and that having really good players helps?

 

Mind blowing stuff, man...

 

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Almost…..

Jim Schwartz was a great DC for us. Unfortunately, Hackett was his colleague on the offensive side.

 

Yeah I loved that wide 9 defense.

6 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Huh????  

 

It was a great play, I agree 100%.  But yes it was cherry picking a play.

 

Can I complain about bad defense on 3rd & 8 and 12 during that drive?😉

 

Can I praise that after 4 weeks against good competition that the Bills have only allowed 7 total points in the second half?

[Thurman#1]

20 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

It's a pattern here.  When thigs go well, it's "Look how great the play calling and McD are".

 

When things not so good, well they bury their heads.

 

Those 13 seconds were a minimum 90% on the coaches.

 

 

If there's a pattern, it's generally that a few here blame anything that went wrong on the coaches (which is a fan tendency, I mean, who turns in to these games to watch the coaching?)

 

Nobody is burying their head on that play. Wallace literally said that they'd called the right play for the situation and that he'd screwed up on-field communication with the safety by not looking back at him. 

 

 

18 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Lol of course you do. 

 

Laugh it up, Scott, but yes, we do.

 

Levi Wallace:  "That last play we had a good play called. But we were all on different pages on how we thought it looked, right?  ...   I put a lot of the blame on myself, thinking that I was going to know where Jordan and Matt were going to be, so I never looked. I think that's where we took it for granted, seeing where they were at. Because we had to defend outside and we had to defend that little in-route that he ran too. And I never looked at Poyer or Matt to see their lineups. And Poyer, usually he's near me and usually that (unclear word) route is usually a pick, and looking back at the play now I'm like, 'dang, he was that far back , like if I had just looked back I would have scooted in."

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/buffalobills/comments/uibn9g/levi_wallace_explains_what_happened_in_the_last/

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Thurman#1

[LeGOATski]

17 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Don't you think that's how just about every team prepares though? they all study film, playbooks, do walkthroughs, strategize, plan situational decisions, etc. In the end, a lot of it comes down to talent combined with how well what you decided to prepare for matches up with what your opponent decided to do and how your players execute.

Talented teams make coaches look brilliant.

 

17 hours ago, eball said:

 

No, I don't.  There is a vast gap in competence among coaching staffs.  All NFL teams have talent.  We see evidence of teams who are and are not adequately "prepared" on a weekly basis.

 

All coaches have pretty much the same information and follow pretty much the same process. But it's like putting 10 meteorologists in a room with the same information; you're going to get 10 different forecasts and some will be more accurate than others.

[Einstein]

On 10/7/2022 at 7:24 AM, eball said:

 

 

I continue to roll my eyes at anyone who claims the Bills aren’t one of the best coached and best prepared teams in the league.

 

 

You think the Bills coaches are one of the only ones in the league that watch film and teach their players what the opponents offense will run? 

[Einstein]

21 hours ago, eball said:

You'll never get me to believe Frazier called a defense that left Kelce alone down the seam.  A player screwed up. .

 

 

Anyone who says “you’ll never get me to believe X” is someone with a closed mind and not open to learning or growing.

 

Based on the evidence, I absolutely believe Frazier called that exact defense.

Both sides of the defense played it the exact same way. That indicates that either numerous players (on both sides) messed up in the same exact way (symmetrically messed up), or that was simply the play call.

 

Notice how BOTH db’s on each side of the field were lined up in the same exact spot? The yard marker? It was definitely what Frazier called.

 

 

Personally, I think Frazier was concerned about Mahomes throwing to the sideline - not the middle seem.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Einstein

[Rochesterfan]

On 10/7/2022 at 7:31 AM, LeGOATski said:

There are specific complaints and separate parts to all that. I think the off-field coaching and preparation have been top notch. In game calls obviously lacking in some games, as well as player focus, but there's only so much you can do for that.

 

The difficulty is people automatically blame coaching.

 

In the Miami game - coaching was blamed for time running out, but McK said he was told either get down  or they had to get OOB.  He knew that, but in the heat of the moment - he thought he could get OOB when he couldn’t and ended up in no man’s land that is on the player.

 

The end of the first half was also set up beautifully by the coaches and a bad snap/bobble caused the issue.

 

Even the 13 seconds against KC - Poyer and Hyde said they made an adjustment and Levi admitted he was not in the correct spot for the adjustment. 
 

There are always more the coaching could do, but the Bills seem to be one of the best prepared, best coached and most notably one of the best teams at in game adjustments in the league.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Anyone who says “you’ll never get me to believe X” is someone with a closed mind and not open to learning or growing.

 

Based on the evidence, I absolutely believe Frazier called that exact defense.

Both sides of the defense played it the exact same way. That indicates that either numerous players (on both sides) messed up in the same exact way (symmetrically messed up), or that was simply the play call.

 

Notice how BOTH db’s on each side of the field were lined up in the same exact spot? The yard marker? It was definitely what Frazier called.

 

 

Personally, I think Frazier was concerned about Mahomes throwing to the sideline - not the middle seem.

It's useless to debate this.  13 seconds and KC did what no team has ever done before and cost the Bills the game.  there were three plays (the kickoff and two Mahomes passes) & the Bills used 2 timeouts and screwed up royally on each one.

 

I see 7 Bills in the pictures, where were the other 4????

 

But let's look at Milano's play on second down vs. The Ravens.....  What a call!!!!

 

For the 150th time, McD has grown on me & generally makes good calls, unfortunately he has gagged on a # at crucial times.  

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The difficulty is people automatically blame coaching.

 

In the Miami game - coaching was blamed for time running out, but McK said he was told either get down  or they had to get OOB.  He knew that, but in the heat of the moment - he thought he could get OOB when he couldn’t and ended up in no man’s land that is on the player.

 

The end of the first half was also set up beautifully by the coaches and a bad snap/bobble caused the issue.

 

Even the 13 seconds against KC - Poyer and Hyde said they made an adjustment and Levi admitted he was not in the correct spot for the adjustment. 
 

There are always more the coaching could do, but the Bills seem to be one of the best prepared, best coached and most notably one of the best teams at in game adjustments in the league.

 

 

Please stop about the KC game, it was a colossal coaching blunder.  Wallace was just one part of it.  No one covering Kelce or Hill (on first down too) was on the coaching.

 

As for Miami.  You maybe right, but just stupidity all around.  McKenzie caught the ball in the middle of the field.  Coaching, like Hill on first down vs. vs. Buffalo dictates get as far straight ahead and get down.  Agree with the snap bobble, but I think Allen had control and could throw it OB or spike it still.....  More bad luck overall.

 

But stop trying to blame anyone but the coaching vs. KC.    

[teef]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

It's useless to debate this.  13 seconds and KC did what no team has ever done before and cost the Bills the game.  there were three plays (the kickoff and two Mahomes passes) & the Bills used 2 timeouts and screwed up royally on each one.

 

I see 7 Bills in the pictures, where were the other 4????

 

But let's look at Milano's play on second down vs. The Ravens.....  What a call!!!!

 

For the 150th time, McD has grown on me & generally makes good calls, unfortunately he has gagged on a # at crucial times.  

 

 

Well at least it’s not turning you into an insane poster. 

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, teef said:

Well at least it’s not turning you into an insane poster. 

Do you have an alert when I post.....  Is it the bat signal?????😉

 

Having my weekend fun as people still try to defend 13 seconds.....  

 

Onto the Pittsburgh game????  I promise I'm not starting any Coaching Threads....

[teef]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Do you have an alert when I post.....  Is it the bat signal?????😉

 

Having my weekend fun as people still try to defend 13 seconds.....  

 

Onto the Pittsburgh game????  I promise I'm not starting any Coaching Threads....

You were posting normally in a thread and I checked the board.  That needs an alert?
 

This coaching talk has really made you a bit unraveled this week.  On occasion we just have to take a step away from the internet.  You think you’re anywhere close to that?  Just looking out.