Move White to safety

[Billzgobowlin]

Sorry you don't take an All Pro CB and change his position because of need at another position.  The Safety switch is for older CBs if they can't keep up with the WRs.  Rhodes would make much more sense.

[JoPoy88]

9 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

Well the OP gave you one example of a corner that made the transition, another obvious one would be Charles Woodson. 

 

I don't know that I think Tre White's speed will be decreased, the whole argument in my mind is is there a way to get your 5-best DBs on the field at all times? 

 

Really as a reaction to Micah Hyde's season ending injury. 

 

Keeping White at corner will work as well, he gets up to speed without rushing, and there can be a rotation of snaps with the other two corners. 

 

I agree that Hamlin has looked good, and I much prefer him to the slower Jaquan Johnson. 

So you’re just disregarding position fit when you propose getting the “best” 5 DBs on the field at the same time (not sure how important that is, anyways.) So take Tre, put him at safety, and you still got your “best” 5 on the field? You sure? Because I’m not, since I’ve never seen Tre play safety at the pro level. 

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

Why are we moving our best corner to safety??

 

Why not move jackson or benford?

Benford would be an excellent candidate for a switch to safety.

[DasNootz]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

White is listed as only five pounds lighter than Hyde and is one pound heavier than Poyer. 

The numbers I saw were:
White: 5'11 175lbs
Poyer: 6'0 192lbs
Hyde: 6'0 197 lbs
Benford 6'1 205lbs



 

Edited October 5, 2022 by DasNootz

[K-9]

9 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

The numbers I saw were:
White: 5'11 175lbs
Poyer: 6'0 192lbs
Hyde: 6'0 197 lbs
Benford 6'1 205lbs



 

I got them from the Bills roster listed on the team website. Here’s a link:

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/team/players-roster/

[muppy]

3 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Seems reactionary to move out on this so fast.    Lets see how Tre and how Micah look when they return first.  Let's be happy that we have a pile of good looking young DBs. 

 

If I was Tre and the Bills said, "we are moving you to safety right now", I would be not too happy.   Lets give Tre a shot to recover and return to form in the position he excels at.  Besides, Tre may never project as a safety in this defense and he has a big shutdown corner contract. 

 

Elam and Benford are playing very good football but they still have a lot to learn.  They have never faced Mahommes, Brady, Herbert, Burrow, etc. , so lets not anoint them based on a few games.   The NFL has a way of catching up.   Lets also recognize that the DL pass rush is helping a lot. 

 

As for Hamlin and Jaquan Johnson,  why don't we let the coaches decide if they are the weakest links?   I have not seen a major mistake by Hamlin yet, but I am not an expert either.    Thankfully, McDermott and Frazier are experts.  

 

 

this is a good a take as I've read in this thread in addressing the OP. Im glad you wrote it. Its a good reasoned reply

 

Because I  honestly thought I was being punked when I read the thread title. Not buying it in any case. NOPE .

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by muppy

[Ethan in Cleveland]

31 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

So you’re just disregarding position fit when you propose getting the “best” 5 DBs on the field at the same time (not sure how important that is, anyways.) So take Tre, put him at safety, and you still got your “best” 5 on the field? You sure? Because I’m not, since I’ve never seen Tre play safety at the pro level. 

That is a reasonable argument.  Maybe he would be terrible at safety.  Maybe he won't be good at CB coming off an ACL either.  As this is just a message board and it is all speculation, I'm going to assume Jackson at CB, Elam and CB, and White/Poyer at safety is our best combination of players.  We have only seen a very small sample of what Hamlin can do.  Everyone on this board said we would be fine with Johnson at safety and he looked pretty bad.  Hamlin seems to be holding his own right now.  I don't think it is unreasonable to assume a player with the skill of White who plays a lot of zone coverage looking back into the backfield could transition to FS.  Perhaps he can not but there are two guys on the team right now that did it at an All-Pro level.  So I'm just saying moving him to safety may put the best group of players in the collective best positions.  

 

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

I love armchair coaches

 

Don't most of us fit that bill?

 

My daughter used to root for the team with the "prettiest uniform", but outside of those takes

 

 

 

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

13 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I got them from the Bills roster listed on the team website. Here’s a link:

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/team/players-roster/

Those numbers are the same as their weights recorded before the draft.  I double checked.  They may still be playing at those weights but it's hard to tell. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

32 minutes ago, mannc said:

Benford would be an excellent candidate for a switch to safety.

 

Yeah - if he falls behind jackson and elam.  Its not even necessarily for this year.  

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Those numbers are the same as their weights recorded before the draft.  I double checked.  They may still be playing at those weights but it's hard to tell. 

Those are their officially listed playing weights. Unless we personally weigh every individual player, that’s what we have to go with. Not that any of it matters. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I have been thinking they will move a CB to replace Hyde once they are all healthy. We’ll see 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

No way that the coaches have even considered this.  He's an All-Pro CB and that's where he stays.

If, and that's a big if, his game diminishes because of injuries then a Plan B would be needed.

 

I'd rather trade Tre than have him play S for $16M a year.

The salary is an issue long term but not while Elam and Jackson are cheap. The total spend on the secondary wouldn't change that much. You are paying White regardless of where he plays.  It really becomes a swap of Hyde's cap number for Dane Jackson's and any increase they would give Poyer. 

 

This is all speculation on how White comes back. If he comes back to being a top 10 CB then he will want and the Bills will want him back at CB.  If his skills have diminished then playing safety may prolong his career.  NFL contracts are not guaranteed and if he can't play at an elite level at CB neither the Bills nor anyone else will pay him top 5 CB money.  

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

That is a reasonable argument.  Maybe he would be terrible at safety.  Maybe he won't be good at CB coming off an ACL either.  As this is just a message board and it is all speculation, I'm going to assume Jackson at CB, Elam and CB, and White/Poyer at safety is our best combination of players.  We have only seen a very small sample of what Hamlin can do.  Everyone on this board said we would be fine with Johnson at safety and he looked pretty bad.  Hamlin seems to be holding his own right now.  I don't think it is unreasonable to assume a player with the skill of White who plays a lot of zone coverage looking back into the backfield could transition to FS.  Perhaps he can not but there are two guys on the team right now that did it at an All-Pro level.  So I'm just saying moving him to safety may put the best group of players in the collective best positions.  

 

 

I for one said Hamlin is the guy to replace Hyde, not Johnson.  Can Johnson be counted on to fill Poyer's role, I don't know for sure.

Long term Johnson is an UFA next March and Hamlin has 2 more years in Buffalo.

 

It now looks like the earliest we see Tre is for the Green Bay game or the next week against the Jets.

I'm about 100% sure he will return to his CB position.  Then we all see how he is playing.

[Mr. WEO]

the board is OOC today!!!

 

crazy stuff

[Locomark]

People can laugh at the OpEd’s idea,  but this is exactly what will happen in 3 years when he gets slower and our Safeties both retire. Very few corners play at the same level in their 30s and he has the hitting ability to be an effective safety. 

[DCbillsfan]

Ethan I'll give you credit for stirring the pot.  Already at 6 pages.  Tre White is an elite CB.  He allows the Bills to run various disguises when he's on the field.  Playing him at S would be underutilizing his talent.  Benford and Elam are playing really well and I think we're all stoked about that.  After the draft, Beane described Benford as a ball hawk.  He weighs 210 pounds.  I believe initially the Bills thought of him as a safety.  That may still be in their plans.  Bills have legit CB depth.  It's a nice problem.

[Chandler#81]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Bills should seriously consider moving Tre to safety when he returns. Right now Elam and Jackson are playing well and Benford will be back soon. The weakest link on the defense is Johnson/Hamlin opposite Poyer. 

Rod Woodson did this and landed in the HOF after his knee surgery and this history indeed sways my thinking. Woodson probably makes the HOF as a CB regardless. Others have done it too - Aneas Williams was another.

Tre is a great corner but it does appear to be true that McD's system allows CBs of all skill levels to do well. Akin to an OL playing your best 5 somewhat agnostic of position, perhaps the Bills should do the same thing in the secondary with their best 4 players plus Taron Johnson at nickel.

My only hesitation for White to safety is that he has never been a great tackler in the open field. 

Hyde may never play for the Bills again given his injury and only 1 more year on his contract. Moving White to safety now and letting the rookies play CB gives them a long term plan for years to come in the secondary.

 

Feel free to flame away, but I look forward to what others think. 

Ah! That’s better. Thought someone had hijacker’s your screen name. 🤦‍♂️

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

The salary is an issue long term but not while Elam and Jackson are cheap. The total spend on the secondary wouldn't change that much. You are paying White regardless of where he plays.  It really becomes a swap of Hyde's cap number for Dane Jackson's and any increase they would give Poyer. 

 

This is all speculation on how White comes back. If he comes back to being a top 10 CB then he will want and the Bills will want him back at CB.  If his skills have diminished then playing safety may prolong his career.  NFL contracts are not guaranteed and if he can't play at an elite level at CB neither the Bills nor anyone else will pay him top 5 CB money.  

 

You got way too much going on here.

1st, Hyde is under contract next year and even if the Bills cut him, he has a lot of dead money ($7M) due to restructure.

2nd, Jackson is an RFA and if the Bills want to keep him, they have to put at least a 2nd Round tender.  That's around $4.3M.

3rd, Poyer may not get a new contract due to the entire teams "positional spending" being too much.

If J Johnson is kept, he will cost more than his 6th round rookie contract.

 

But all that is for Beane to decide.  My point is Tre goes back to CB.  If he can't fill that role, then it's about whether or not he

stays on the team.  If his knee won't let him play CB, there is no guarantee he could play FS.  We will have to wait and see.

 

Let me just add that Tre has a lot of dead money still on his contract due to restructuring.  It's a "risk lesson" to all of us who 

think these moves come free.  Just like I pointed out about Hyde.

[machine gun kelly]

4 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

I award you no points may god have mercy on your soul.   

Ethan, you know I like you bud, but you’re out there on this one.  Have a good day brother, and day drinking is not you’re friend.

 

Well keep our top 5 corner where he belongs.  The backup safeties are actually doing fine.  If payer goes out for the rib, we’ll manage.  The Stillers are atrocious.  They will be lucky to win four games this season.

 

we need all ailing to sit this Sunday.  That means Poyer, Tre (maybe coming back from pup today), Phillips, Oliver, Gabe, McKenzie, and any O Linemen we are concerned for the next week.  We need these guys next week.  We can beat the losers with several of our back ups.

 

just keep Josh’s jersey clean.