Orlovsky: Bills have become one of best screen teams

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

This is true for most teams right now in the NFL, and you really see it at the college level. The perimeter run game has been largely replace by fast screens, bubbles, and tunnel screens. From a defensive perspective these plays are no different than playing the run - run fits have to be on point.

 

This was going on many years ago with Tom Brady and the Patriots...he would basically line up and if a running play was called but there was a DB playing off coverage on the WR, Brady would simply get the ball, take one step back and fire it out there for him to pick up easy yards without even calling an audible.  

 

I remember a game where they were playing the Steelers and they had a phenomenal run D so the Patriots basically didn't even bother trying to run it and just threw almost every down and were carving them up and crushed them.  

 

The announcers were stunned because that just never really happened back then.  Teams always at least tried to run the ball.  Basically it was the first time I remember watching a game and seeing those type of short passes used as a team's version of a running game.

[SoCal Deek]

I’m not sure why they even really bother. Singletary is wide open over the middle on seemingly every check down. Josh threw it to him multiple times against the Ravens and I was super glad to see it. They used it throughout the playoffs last year and it reminded me of how Kelly used Thurman in the K Gun. It’s good for a minimum of five yards every single time. 

[Bangarang]

WR screens seem to be good but RB and TE screens don’t seem as effective. 

[eball]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

We had a better WR screen game when John Brown was here...multiple long plays and/or TDs from the "Gold Rip" audible with him.  I would bet that is going to be Stevenson's role if he is activated to the roster from PUP as he brings a speed element they lack right now.

 

Again...the best screen game I have ever seen belonged to Chan Gailey and that was for all types...traditional screens, middle screens, WR screens....dude was a master at them.  It was a joy to watch.

 

Agree, Gailey was very good at it.  I'm glad Dorsey is doing things to make up for the lack of a traditional running attack.

 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Agree, Gailey was very good at it.  I'm glad Dorsey is doing things to make up for the lack of a traditional running attack.

 

 

I'd like to see more edge runs and toss sweeps...the Bills are actually very good at blocking those and have gotten numerous long gains from them this year.  Not sure why we keep trying to run up the middle with inside zone when we have been terrible at blocking for it.  

 

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

This was going on many years ago with Tom Brady and the Patriots...he would basically line up and if a running play was called but there was a DB playing off coverage on the WR, Brady would simply get the ball, take one step back and fire it out there for him to pick up easy yards without even calling an audible.  

 

I remember a game where they were playing the Steelers and they had a phenomenal run D so the Patriots basically didn't even bother trying to run it and just threw almost every down and were carving them up and crushed them.  

 

The announcers were stunned because that just never really happened back then.  Teams always at least tried to run the ball.  Basically it was the first time I remember watching a game and seeing those type of short passes used as a team's version of a running game.

Yep. It's called throwing the "gift". Happens a lot on the backside of 3x1. If the corner is playing off on the single side it's an automatic route conversion to a 5 yard stop. It's good stuff. Can't be treated as a replacement to the run game though - schematically those two are very different for a defense.

[eball]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

I'd like to see more edge runs and toss sweeps...the Bills are actually very good at blocking those and have gotten numerous long gains from them this year.  Not sure why we keep trying to run up the middle with inside zone when we have been terrible at blocking for it.  

 

 

I would like to see those as well.  We have these high-RAS O-linemen and asking them to block for between the tackles runs doesn't make sense.

 

I have to think Dorsey is playing the long game, not showing everything right now and figuring out what they do best.

 

[Sestak4ever]

Used to love the tight end screen Kelly would run with Metzlars. Kelly would roll out to his right and get the entire defense moving in that direction and then throw back to the left to Metzlars. Always good for a nice gain. Haven’t seen us use that since.

[HoofHearted]

8 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

WR screens seem to be good but RB and TE screens don’t seem as effective. 

Same reason our run game has been poor. Common denominator there... The OL.

[Beck Water]

48 minutes ago, Steel City Mafia said:

 

 

This notion is a surprise to me.  I think it would surprise the Cover 1 guys as well, since they were commenting about the Dolphins game that Dorsey's sole answer to pressure seemed to be "Singletary out wide".

 

I would love the Bills to be one of the best screen teams.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Beck Water

[HoofHearted]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

This notion is a surprise to me.  I think it would surprise the Cover 1 guys as well, since they were commenting about the Dolphins game that Dorsey's sole answer to pressure seemed to be "Singletary out wide".

Empty is a fantastic way to get people out of pressure. Forces you to play Cover 0 on the back end if you still want to bring the house. With our weapons I love that matchup.

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Same reason our run game has been poor. Common denominator there... The OL.

 

But wait.....Jonathan Taylor would get yards and yards more behind our same OL, I read it right here

 

Seriously, I know the OL has bitten big time especially once Morse went out vs. Tennessee and was out for Miami (then the entire right side of the OL followed).  But is it limited to the OL?  I've seen plays where the timing was just off on Gilliam lead blocking (he bumped into Singletary going through the hole instead of leading) and others where the blockers downfield whiffed, leading to a 1-3 yd gain instead of more.

 

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Empty is a fantastic way to get people out of pressure. Forces you to play Cover 0 on the back end if you still want to bring the house. With our weapons I love that matchup.

 

With Davis healthy and able to run his best and McKenzie available, sure.  I know that beautiful deep completion to Davis against LA had them re-thinking the Cover 0 concept.

 

But if you don't have the option of a couple deep threats, does that work very well?

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

43 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

When was the last regular RB screen that actually went for more than 5 yards?

 

Err....the play Orlovsky diagrams in the OP was a screen to the RB that went for 16 yds

 

Might I offer you the use of a hand towel to de-egg your face, or by "regular RB screen" do you have specific screen plays in mind that we aren't good at?

Edited October 5, 2022 by Beck Water

[Freddie's Dead]

The Bills suck at screens.  Or so I've heard....

[Beck Water]

26 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

WR screens seem to be good but RB and TE screens don’t seem as effective. 

 

The OP play commentated by Orlovsky was screen to an RB.  

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Err....the play Orlovsky diagrams in the OP was a regular RB screen that went for 16 yds

 

Might I offer you the use of a hand towel to de-egg your face?

 

No it wasn't.  That was a WR screen thrown to an RB lined up at WR. The fact I have to even explain this is kinda embarrassing for you. 

 

This is a normal screen to an RB. 

 

https://youtu.be/28JHZuhocJ4?t=57

 

May I offer you some football knowledge that is clearly lacking?

Edited October 5, 2022 by Big Turk

[scuba guy]

From worst to best in a week

 

How bad can that be

[78thealltimegreat]

Even if we can’t run the ball that well a couple jet sweeps and screens to keep the safeties honest is really all we kinda need right now. 

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

No it wasn't.  That was a WR screen thrown to an RB lined up at WR. The fact I have to even explain this is kinda embarrassing for you. 

 

This is a normal screen to an RB. 

 

https://youtu.be/28JHZuhocJ4?t=57

 

May I offer you some football knowledge that is clearly lacking?

 

Certainly you may do so!  In fact I would welcome it!

 

By "regular RB screen" you clearly have specific screen plays in mind, since it's quite a "regular" and "normal" thing for an RB to line up wide these days.

 

Care to define which specific screen play designs you have in mind that the Bills do poorly?

 

PS on what I think is called a "slip screen" in the initial film clip, I think GB could be called for "ineligable man downfield" these days which has been one of the Bills problems with this play design of recent years.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Beck Water

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Certainly!  By "regular RB screen" you clearly have specific screen plays in mind, since it's quite a "regular" and "normal" thing for an RB to line up wide these days.

 

Care to define which specific screen plays you have in mind that the Bills do poorly?

 

The kind I just linked to in the video...

 

This is an example of how those usually end up going for the Bills.  Came against the Redskins last year and the Redskins broadcast team use this as an example of "how to stop a screen pass". In general, the Bills are terrible at setting these up properly.  Yes, every once in a while they work well, but by and in large they are terrible looking...the spacing is wrong...the lineman don't seem to be in the right position and the defenders are not fooled and are sitting there waiting for the RB in the backfield.

 

https://www.commanders.com/video/film-breakdown-how-to-stop-the-screen-pass