How is a new RB going to make a difference behind this OL?

[Scott7975]

It wont.  The Oline is the problem with the running game.  

[Jauronimo]

This Oline gets zero push.  Its as plain as day.  Has been for 2 straight years.  Saffold has been very poor.  Morse is not the most powerful guy but does well when pulling and is good in pass pro.  Not so sure how the right side of the line is performing.  Brown has sucked in pass pro.

[Nihilarian]

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s not even the OL. We literally had the same conversations last year. What changed late last year when they started running better? I don’t know. They’ll be fine on offense though.

 

Everyone always wants to blame the OL. IT’s everything. 

This entire board was saying the team needed a new RB in the draft...right up until Singletary was being used more often in the run game later in the season last year.

 

It started the week after the Bucs loss and in the week 15 Carolina game. Singletary, a measly 4 attempts in that Bucs loss to 22 rush attempts for 86 yards, one TD against the Panthers. Skip the win against NE and go to the week 17 Atlanta game, Singletary, 23 rushes for 110 yards, two TDs. Week 18, NY Jets Singletary 19 rushes for 88 yards, one TD. The Patriots playoff game Singletary 18 rushes for 81 yards, two TDs. 

 

A funny thing happens when you hand off to the starting RB around 20 times a game. The O linemen love to literally throw their weight at opposing defensive players over attempting to hold their ground in pass blocking. The more they run block the more effective it usually is...

 

The RB usually starts getting into a rhythm and becomes better at finding the holes and making opponents miss the more attempts he gets. Usually the more a team runs the ball the more the opposing defense starts to wear down too.

 

Rams, Singletary, 8 carries. 

Titans, Singletary, 6 carries.

Miami, Singletary, 9 carries. 

Ravens, Singletary 11 carries. 

 

The 49ers are so good at running the ball because they really work at it. Seems like they can plug in any RB into their scheme and get good production.

 

Now that the Bills are dealing with so many injuries to their receiving corps it might be wise to get that run game going. 

 

 

On another note: The KC Chiefs just ran it 37 times for 189 yards, two TDs against a really good Bucs defense. Winning 41-31. Balanced teams are tough to beat.  Two words! Home Field!

 

 

[John from Riverside]

Just stop with the it’s your turn running back system and it will improve

 

Maybe the bills don’t think the motor can handle it

[GunnerBill]

None. We don't have the best backs in the league by any stretch. Singletary is a starter, but a low end one, Moss is not even a backup and Cook has a lot to prove. 

 

But the biggest weakness on this team is offensive line. I don't know how many more times I can say it, or how many more metrics we need to see to accept it as the reality. If the Bills fail to reach their goals again this year I suspect the offensive line will be at the heart of it again. 

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

This entire board was saying the team needed a new RB in the draft...right up until Singletary was being used more often in the run game later in the season last year.

 

It started the week after the Bucs loss and in the week 15 Carolina game. Singletary, a measly 4 attempts in that Bucs loss to 22 rush attempts for 86 yards, one TD against the Panthers. Skip the win against NE and go to the week 17 Atlanta game, Singletary, 23 rushes for 110 yards, two TDs. Week 18, NY Jets Singletary 19 rushes for 88 yards, one TD. The Patriots playoff game Singletary 18 rushes for 81 yards, two TDs. 

 

A funny thing happens when you hand off to the starting RB around 20 times a game. The O linemen love to literally throw their weight at opposing defensive players over attempting to hold their ground in pass blocking. The more they run block the more effective it usually is...

 

The RB usually starts getting into a rhythm and becomes better at finding the holes and making opponents miss the more attempts he gets. Usually the more a team runs the ball the more the opposing defense starts to wear down too.

 

Rams, Singletary, 8 carries. 

Titans, Singletary, 6 carries.

Miami, Singletary, 9 carries. 

Ravens, Singletary 11 carries. 

 

The 49ers are so good at running the ball because they really work at it. Seems like they can plug in any RB into their scheme and get good production.

 

Now that the Bills are dealing with so many injuries to their receiving corps it might be wise to get that run game going. 

 

 

On another note: The KC Chiefs just ran it 37 times for 189 yards, two TDs against a really good Bucs defense. Winning 41-31. Balanced teams are tough to beat.  Two words! Home Field!

 

 

 

The Chiefs have a good offensive line. We don't. End of discussion. 

[whorlnut]

8 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

We haven't taken an offensive lineman in the 1st round of the draft since Eric Wood back in '09. That has to change if we want this offense to reach its potential.

If anything, it shows your unicorn qb some good faith. 

[JohnnyBuffalo]

I’m not convinced that there aren’t better schemes to help the offense run block better.  Yes I said offense because the line isn’t always to blame!  Former O-line talking.  Personally never liked the QB in the shotgun to run the ball on short yardage or play action.  I know it’s because they want Josh to have the option to run the ball but I think having more looks under center for plays might help.   But who knows if that negatively affects the way Josh sees the field on pass plays.   
 

Go Bills!
 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

I’m not convinced that there aren’t better schemes to help the offense run block better.  Yes I said offense because the line isn’t always to blame!  Former O-line talking.  Personally never liked the QB in the shotgun to run the ball on short yardage or play action.  I know it’s because they want Josh to have the option to run the ball but I think having more looks under center for plays might help.   But who knows if that negatively affects the way Josh sees the field on pass plays.   
 

Go Bills!
 

 

 

Their improvement last year was linked to a move away from zone blocking in the run game and towards more of a gap scheme. But they have reverted back. They desperately want to be a good zone run team. But they are not. 

[Mickey]

10 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

a guy that can run inside with power, make guys miss with quickness and win around the edge with speed would make a difference. 
 

The bills have one of each of the above no guy that can do any two or all three.

 

it could make a difference 

So all we need is Jim Brown in his prime? Sounds like a plausible plan, probably lots of available guys like that we can fit under our cap.

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

None. We don't have the best backs in the league by any stretch. Singletary is a starter, but a low end one, Moss is not even a backup and Cook has a lot to prove. 

 

But the biggest weakness on this team is offensive line. I don't know how many more times I can say it, or how many more metrics we need to see to accept it as the reality. If the Bills fail to reach their goals again this year I suspect the offensive line will be at the heart of it again. 

 

The Chiefs have a good offensive line. We don't. End of discussion. 

Totally agree. They have been patching a line together the entire time McD has been here. Why?  So they can spend heavy on the defense and hope Allen’s elite talents can mask an average oline.

 

It’s funny that you bring up the Chiefs. Who do they have that was there for the taking a few years ago?  Creed Humphrey. That’s the guy I thought was destined to be a Bill when we picked in the second round. What did we do?  We doubled down on defensive end. That one hurts a lot. 
 

Another one that hurts is passing on JK Dobbins in 2020 in favor of Epenesa…a guy who hasn’t even shown up in the box score each of the last two weeks. My point is…at some point this regime is gonna have to swing heavy on the offensive line. Beane has made a point every off-season that he will never stop adding to the dline. He needs to take that same approach on the offensive line. 

[GreggTX]

This isn't the worst OL in the NFL, but there's no doubt that it isn't one of the better ones. Bates is still below average, but hopefully he still has a long way to go before he hits his ceiling. Brown has much more potential based on his measureables, but he's measurably worse than Bates right now. Watching Brown get spun in circles by Ogbah was painful to watch, but I understand why they leave him in despite the fact that Quessenberry is better than him right now. Brown and Bates are still young. I still expect Beane to make a bold move on the OL this coming offseason. It's still a great roster overall.

[GreggTX]

8 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

We haven't taken an offensive lineman in the 1st round of the draft since Eric Wood back in '09. That has to change if we want this offense to reach its potential.

Nailed it. I couldn't agree more. This is especially true because Cody Ford isn't very good. If he were a probowl G and we'd kept Teller, this discussion would be moot.

[JohnNord]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

None. We don't have the best backs in the league by any stretch. Singletary is a starter, but a low end one, Moss is not even a backup and Cook has a lot to prove. 

 

But the biggest weakness on this team is offensive line. I don't know how many more times I can say it, or how many more metrics we need to see to accept it as the reality. If the Bills fail to reach their goals again this year I suspect the offensive line will be at the heart of it again. 

 

The Chiefs have a good offensive line. We don't. End of discussion. 

This is my point.  Even if the Bills were to trade for a new RB, I don’t think it makes much of a difference in the run game because of the OL has been.

[T master]

13 hours ago, JohnNord said:

I’ve seen many Bills fans clamoring to trade for a new running back.   I think that the bigger issue is that the offensive line just doesn’t win matchups.  
 

Watch how easily other teams are able to pick up 2-3 yards on 3rd and 1 and the Bills struggle to get 1 yard.  In fact, the Bills OL is by far the worst run blocking unit in the league.  

 

So how is a running back going to fix that?  

 

Unless your running back is going to break a run like Saquon Barkley after getting hit in the backfield, I don’t see how a new RB is going to fix the problems on the offensive line.  

 

Well first off we need a back with a better vision some backs just have that thing where they can make something out of nothing Motor can do that at times Moss is terrible at it & Cook can't even hold on to the ball .

 

Plus Moss was suppose to be the change of pace back the bigger power guy & he's pretty much the exact same size as Motor & doesn't have enough ass to push a much larger linemen or LB out of the way they need a back like AJ Dillon, Fornett, a bigger back that can punch it through those none holes for a couple extra yards .

 

No one in the NFL is afraid of the Bills run game & that is a piece that is needed to be a SB Champion they have all had it & the Bills don't so i personally would rather go there than a WR because it is the weakest link in the chain as of right now plus if the back doesn't produce cut him & get another no money really lost .

 

But they won't know unless they try we have the WR's in the room to cover the Crowder loss but there is no other RB's to bring up .

 

I because of the way he did produced in the preseason was hoping they would have used Blackshear he was showing he had at least something & producing more than any other on the team at that time but they let him go should ah could ah would ah ...

 

Then again even with the as others have said here O line not getting any push he seemed to find the hole & make good use of it that is the type of guy we need .

Edited October 5, 2022 by T master

[Simon Says]

13 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s not even the OL. We literally had the same conversations last year. What changed late last year when they started running better? I don’t know. They’ll be fine on offense though.

 

Everyone always wants to blame the OL. IT’s everything. 

Bills made several moves on the OLine and the eventual 5 seemed to be an improvement 

[Billz4ever]

13 hours ago, JohnNord said:

I’ve seen many Bills fans clamoring to trade for a new running back.   I think that the bigger issue is that the offensive line just doesn’t win matchups.  
 

Watch how easily other teams are able to pick up 2-3 yards on 3rd and 1 and the Bills struggle to get 1 yard.  In fact, the Bills OL is by far the worst run blocking unit in the league.  

 

So how is a running back going to fix that?  

 

Unless your running back is going to break a run like Saquon Barkley after getting hit in the backfield, I don’t see how a new RB is going to fix the problems on the offensive line.  

It won't.  It's a knee jerk reaction that doesn't take into account the OL not doing a great job getting any type of push or opening any holes.

 

Expecting to be able to bring in a back that can simply turn plays stopped for little to no gain into good, positive yardage with any type of consistency is wishful thinking.

 

Singletary and Moss are obviously not new to this team, yet there seemed to be this expectation that the running game would be much improved this year.  I'm going to assume much of those expectations came from the new OL coaching, which is weird.  It's that OL that is probably the biggest factor in the equation here, but now we think getting a new RB will solve the problem.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Billz4ever

[Nihilarian]

Currently the 2022 Buffalo Bills are 20th in rushing attempts, 12th in rush yards, 20th in rush TDs. Mostly because the Bills QB leads the team in rushing yards with 183, 2 TDs. 

 

Singletary, 34 rush attempts for 129 yards, a 3.8 YPC AVG. Singletary also has 17 receptions for 141 yards, 1 TD. He has 2.1 rush yards before contact per rush attempt. 

 

Cincy RB Joe Mixon, 82 attempts, 224 yards, a 2.7 AVG

Buc's RB Leonard Fournette, 60 attempts, 224 yards, a 3.7 AVG

GB RB AJ Dillion, 57 attempts, 211 yards, a 3.7 AVG. 

STEELERS RB, Najee Harris, 57 attempts, 202 yards, a 3.5 AVG

 

My take is that even as injury plagued as the Bills have been on that line they are still pretty good and will show better the more they run the ball.  Usually, your simply not going to get really good production from a lead RB with only 8-11 attempts per game. 

 

 

 

[Nextmanup]

Our OL is improved, but far from anything special in the league right now.

 

I agree that much of our run game is really a critique on our O line, so sure, if you want to improve running (I don't care about that AT ALL), have a look at the OL.

 

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

This doesn't need explaining.  As good as Singletary may be, Barkley is levels better.  Barkley is a threat to score any time he touches the ball.  That 40 yard scamper by Moss in Miami is a Saquon TD.  This new found screen game would be lethal with Saquon.  He's also an incredible decoy and mismatch that you have to account for which opens up the pass game.  

 

RPO with Allen and Barkley...tell me you can't see it.

 

That's not to say "get rid of Motor",  just upgrade a position that can be upgraded and put this team over the top.  

 

All that to say, the Giants aren't trading Barkley.  They would be fools to.  This move, if at all a possibility, should have been made in the off-season like a few of us were suggesting. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[SACTOBILLSFAN]

15 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Part of our problem is we are a shotgun offense. We don’t do a whole lot under center in running formations. I think we’re very predictable in our run game.

 

 

The most efficient running plays in the NFL are QB scrambles, the second most effective are out of spread formations.