Tremaine Must Remain

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Oh so it's the scheme's fault that he can't shed blocks, make impact tackles, or read plays? I didn't realize until now those were things that stopped in the 1980s.

He processes the game too slowly, has bad judgment, doesn't shed blocks and is a soft tackler. None of those things should be highly controversial after watching him do them for 4+ seasons and all of them are bad traits to have in player youw ant to build your defense around. All of his best traits are things he was born with: size, speed, length.

he has the #1 base salary in the league for an ILB, commands the 4th most cap and makes the 6th most total money overall.
 

 

Again...you keep focusing on the run.  The Bills don't give an F about him and the run defense...they are concerned about the pass defense. Newsflash.  It's a passing league.  Come join us in the 21st century.

[vtnatefootball11]

Very interesting to me to hear so many on this board claim they don't want to pay Edmunds because he doesn't make a huge impact but yet then defended the Knox resigning (I've been very vocal against the Knox deal, not trying to rehash that now, too early time will tell). Not that Edmunds has been elite, his lack of instincts/physicality at times are frustrating given his potential, but with the base nickel defense we run his pass coverage and length are a huge asset and critical to our team's success. He's shown some consistency as well this year through 4 games. Will be quite upset if we end up losing Edmunds to keep Knox.

[DrDawkinstein]

16 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

It is when the scheme isn't designed for an MLB to dominate games. This isn't the 1980's.

 

Ehh... Dominate in a different way.

 

He's playing the same position in the same scheme as Kuechly who was famous for making big plays in the passing game. Edmunds has finally started to do that this year.

 

Is it because it is finally starting to click for him? Or because of the revamped DL? Or is it the same thing folks have said about many players, like Shaq and others, and he's motivated to make bigger plays by his looming free agency?

 

I doubt it's the last one, but either way, I'm not looking to pay him what his fair market value will be. And I don't expect or want players to leave money on the table.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by DrDawkinstein

[Bangarang]

Just now, vtnatefootball11 said:

Very interesting to me to hear so many on this board claim they don't want to pay Edmunds because he doesn't make a huge impact but yet then defended the Knox resigning (I've been very vocal against the Knox deal, not trying to rehash that now, too early time will tell). Not that Edmunds has been elite, his lack of instincts/physicality at times are frustrating given his potential, but with the base nickel defense we run his pass coverage and length are a huge asset and critical to our team's success. He's shown some consistency as well this year through 4 games. Will be quite upset if we end up losing Edmunds to keep Knox.

I said at the time that if Knox’s usage increases then the contract becomes a bargain. 
 

If we just get more of the same but less TDs then it’s a garbage deal. Beane gambled that the TD production would stay the same but the receptions and yards would increase. So far it’s been the opposite. 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ehh... Dominate in a different way.

 

He's playing the same position in the same scheme as Kuechly who was famous for making big plays in the passing game. Edmunds has finally started to do that this year.

 

Is it because it is finally starting to click for him? Or because of the revamped DL? Or is it the same thing folks have said about many players, like Shaq and others, and he's motivated to make bigger plays by his looming free agency?

 

I doubt it's the last one, but either way, I'm not looking to pay him what his fair market value will be. And I don't expect or want players to leave money on the table.

 

 

 

He plays an integral part in the Bills pass defense.  The Bills have held teams to 200 yards or less of passing offense in 22 of their last 36 games, which equates to 61% of the time.  Do you understand how absurd those numbers are when teams are usually behind by a lot and having to throw the ball and the Bills are allowing a bunch of garbage time completions to run clock and playing more of a softer defense? In a passing league where teams routinely put up 300 yard games like they are going out of style?

 

 

[MarlinTheMagician]

35 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Absolute credit where it is due, he has been playing great this year. Great to finally see. Caveat: Behind the new, revamped DL.

 

And that caveat makes me wonder if he is even more replaceable now. If he is playing so much better due to the DL, why couldn't someone else who isnt demanding $15M/yr play that spot atan equal level, or even just down to his level last year (but for $1M/yr, looking at you Terrel Bernard)

Both Milano (my fave) and Edmunds are thriving behind the new line.  Does not mean the new line is what makes them good, maybe the old line kept them from showing out - we have been soft against the run since before Star and our linebackers were never kept clean before.  Daquan Jones and Tim Settle make a big difference, for the linebackers I think the big guys in the middle have mattered as much or more than the emergence of Groot and the signing of Von Miller.  Team game, and Milano and Edmunds are excelling at their part of "team".

[gobills404]

48 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Can you find me his INT numbers for the last two years? How about his forced fumble numbers or tackles for loss?  I'll wait.

 

Or are you saying he is a "decoy" like Sammy Watkins? His mere presence on the field makes a difference?

Since 2018:

 

Milano - 5 INT, 1 FF, 9.0 sacks, 41 TFL

Edmunds - 4 INT, 2 FF, 6.5 sacks, 30 TFL

 

Wow what a huge difference! Not having same impact as an elite WLB (who is allowed to play with more freedom) doesn’t mean a player doesn’t make an impact.

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

He is playing better this year than at any point last year. Opinions and evaluations are allowed to change and evolve. That's why you pick up his 5th year option and see what happens. Right now he is trending towards a franchise tag or contract extension. Milano was a popular choice for parting ways to afford other players but he is playing at an elite level. 

Odd men out here are going to be Hyde, Singletary, Epenesa, and maybe Morse. Poyer probably gets a 2 year extension soon with how well he is playing. They will restructure White.  Very unlikely but if he doesn't recover from his injury he could be a cap casualty with Dane, Elam, and Benford being cheaper options. Heresy I know but you can't pay everyone and inured guys like Hyde and White get released all the time.

 

They then draft safety and OL next year. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

37 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Gives you a pretty great view of him pattern matching receivers over the middle of the field and taking them out of the QB's progression.  The obsession about his run D is kinda crazy.  It's a passing league, the Bills have the #1 pass D by miles for the past 2+ years and he is a large part of it.  You can accept this or you don't have to, but if you choose to continue your crusade against him it basically shows you either don't understand football very well or you choose to see what you want to see.

 

I promise you his contract will reflect the value other teams see him bringing in pass defense and not run defense.

And this year it is not just against the pass.  Watch the replay of the 3rd and one on the last drive.  He flows correctly to the hole in the middle created by Brandon Bryant's excellent swim move outside.  Forces the back to continue down the line towards the outside where Milano absolutely wrecks him.  Play is made first and foremost by Bryant (who takes three blockers), but without Milano AND Edmunds filling the back scores and their is no 4th down pick by Poyer.

[Big Turk]

58 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Can you find me his INT numbers for the last two years? How about his forced fumble numbers or tackles for loss?  I'll wait.

 

Or are you saying he is a "decoy" like Sammy Watkins? His mere presence on the field makes a difference?

 

How about the Bills pass D numbers over the last 2 years+?  

 

They have allowed under 200 yards passing in 22 of the last 36 games, or 61% of the time.  That is one of the most absurd stats you'll find when you think about how often teams put up yards in garbage time when behind and how often teams are in garbage time against us. Edmunds plays a big role in that, whether you want to admit it or not.

[HOUSE]

19 minutes ago, f0neguy said:

I think the Bills have to keep him.  If he were to leave, what would most of this board have to b***h about?

 

(kind of kidding)

We can still b****h about Moss or James Cook....the possibilities are endless...

[Bangarang]

31 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Well...not the same impact as Allen but he DOES have a big impact...again...it's the plays you don't see...namely the easy 5 yard passes over the middle teams are used to getting versus every other team.  They don't get those against us very often.  Edmunds is a huge part of the reason why.  When people breakdown the Bills coverage and say "They make you work hard and execute well for every yard you get, there are no easy completions against them", that's hat they mean. 

 

Many times Edmunds is taking away the "easy" completions the QB wants or the safety blankets they have over the middle.  You cannot talk about the Bills pass defense without acknowledging this. The safeties get huge props and rightly so, for forcing teams to throw short, but Edmunds doesn't get his just dues for making sure those short passes don't result in teams moving the ball down the field easily very often.

Good players consistently make plays that we can noticeably see. 
 

Your argument basically is “He does a really good job impacting the game. You can’t see it but just trust me.”

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Good players consistently make plays that we can noticeably see. 
 

Your argument basically is “He does a really good job impacting the game. You can’t see it but just trust me.”

 

You can see the Bills pass defense numbers over the last 2+ years.  22 times out of 36 games teams have had under 200 yards passing.  Or 61% of the time.  He plays a major reason as to why.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Big Turk

[MarlinTheMagician]

2 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

We can still b****h about Moss or James Cook....the possibilities are endless...

Love the post.  Moss is my favorite target for my"b**ching at the moment.  Let's see Duke Johnson, who I bet few know weighs more than Moss.  A little early for the Cook b**ch train to leave the station.  Go Tremaine!  Big dog is eating now that we have beef cows upfront that keep him clean.  Unlocks his athleticism.

[Bangarang]

9 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

You can see the Bills pass defense numbers over the last 2+ years.  22 times out of 36 games teams have had under 200 yards passing.  Or 61% of the time.

So you’re correlating a team stat to the individual success of one player? Attributing the success of the pass defense to our MLB is odd to say the least. 
 

You’re making pretty weak arguments possible.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Bangarang

[streetkings01]

People just ran with the narrative that he’s a bad player. We’ve seen it with London Fletcher, Travis Henry, Willis McGahee, Marshawn Lynch, Stephon Gilmore etc.

 

Edmunds is a good football player……defense has consistently been top 10 since he’s joined the team. Watch some of the so called best linebackers in the NFL play week in week out and you’ll see none of them are perfect.

[MarlinTheMagician]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

So you’re correlating a team stat with to the individual success of one player? Attributing the success of the pass defense to our MLB is odd to say the least. 
 

You’re making pretty weak arguments possible.

Not what he is saying --  of course he does not deserve all the credit, just like he doesn't deserve all the blame for past weakness in run defense.  He does, however, deserve a good share of credit for the successful pass defense.  And his run fits are much, much better (see Baltimore game).  People get caught in the old narrative and fall in love with their prior views.  They look for confirmation of those views.  Confirmation bias is a very well-known phenomenon.  Edmunds is a victim of it on this board.

 

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

So you’re correlating a team stat to the individual success of one player? Attributing the success of the pass defense to our MLB is odd to say the least. 
 

You’re making pretty weak arguments possible.

 

You are just showing how little you actually understand about the Bills scheme and what it's predicated on.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Big Turk

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Both Milano (my fave) and Edmunds are thriving behind the new line.  Does not mean the new line is what makes them good, maybe the old line kept them from showing out - we have been soft against the run since before Star and our linebackers were never kept clean before.  Daquan Jones and Tim Settle make a big difference, for the linebackers I think the big guys in the middle have mattered as much or more than the emergence of Groot and the signing of Von Miller.  Team game, and Milano and Edmunds are excelling at their part of "team".

 

First, great thread title.

 

Second, I too have become a believer in TE.

 

Third, if money wasn't a problem, he is definitely worth keeping due to his play.

 

So, it comes down to money.  As things go right now it just seems Beane won't be able to swing a long-term contract.

BUT none of us know what the cap will be in 2 years.  I will repeat that, none of us know.

 

The only way I see this happening is building Edmunds's contract with a 5-year term.  As much as we all laugh about his age it is the

way to make it work.  Having a cheap cap hit in 2023 with an option to do a restructure of some Base Salary in 2024.

This will only happen if Beane knows where the cap is going, and he can structure a workable contract with Edmunds and his agent.

 

I do think Edmunds wants to stay in Buffalo.  It would mean that he takes a little less per year IF he wants to stay. 

[JoPoy88]

38 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

he has the #1 base salary in the league for an ILB, commands the 4th most cap and makes the 6th most total money overall.
 

And that’s solely a function of his rookie contract and where he was drafted. Not a good argument. Or are you blaming him for his draft position too?

 

Again: Who’s your alternative?