Ball Security

[BuffaloBill]

11 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

simply put, the Bills, whether it's Allen or the RBs, need to take better care of the ball.  Two games in a row, the offense has basically handed the opposition 7 points, with drive starts inside the Bills' 10-yard line.   Singletary coughed it up once on Sunday and very nearly did it again on his last carry (it's hard to fumble when the other team wants you to score).

 

 

This team is really hard to beat even with the turnovers.  Clean those up, and well....

 

 

The way Motor was carrying it seems like he does not have his hands solidly on the ball.   

[Beck Water]

11 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

When the ball is tipped at the line it’s not on the QB

 

Er..... except when sometimes it is

 

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

The way Motor was carrying it seems like he does not have his hands solidly on the ball.   

 

The ball position does look off.  It should be tucked along his forarm, where his forearm muscles  and elbow protect it from being knocked down.  He's got the "claw" part of the hold and the L arm over R correct, but it looks as though the lower tip of the ball is straight up and down instead of along his arm, if that makes sense, so nothing is stopping it from being pushed down.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, benderbender said:

@CalaisCampbell did know the game was tied, and there was less 30 seconds on the clock at the time, and at best they'd have gotten the ball inside their own 10, right?

 

LOL yeah I'd be kind of embarrassed if one of our guys posted something like that.  It would be like posting (Mia and Ravens game), look how close Milano came to getting a pick, and it could have been a pick 6 and that could have won the game for us! except, he didn't get the pick in either game and even if he did, there's a lot more to it.

 

Plus if Motor did fumble and there was a scrum to recover the ball, that would have eaten up more clock before the zebras tooted their horns.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

33 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Er..... except when sometimes it is

 

 

The ball position does look off.  It should be tucked along his forarm, where his forearm muscles  and elbow protect it from being knocked down.  He's got the "claw" part of the hold and the L arm over R correct, but it looks as though the lower tip of the ball is straight up and down instead of along his arm, if that makes sense, so nothing is stopping it from being pushed down.

Please explain a scenario where a tip at the line is the QB’s fault it’s up to the o line to create passing lanes for the QB

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Depends, often it is.

Please explain

12 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

simply put, the Bills, whether it's Allen or the RBs, need to take better care of the ball.  Two games in a row, the offense has basically handed the opposition 7 points, with drive starts inside the Bills' 10-yard line.   Singletary coughed it up once on Sunday and very nearly did it again on his last carry (it's hard to fumble when the other team wants you to score).

 

 

This team is really hard to beat even with the turnovers.  Clean those up, and well....

Almost Only counts in hand grenades Campbell

[Scott7975]

This is why they need to get Cook going this week. I don’t care that he fumbled his first ball. I don’t care that he dropped a couple passes. They are not giving him enough opportunity. Stop coddling rookies. They need to play, not sit for half of their rookie contract. They did this with Davis too. 

[MarkyMannn]

3 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Punching/racking the ball out is SOP league wide, 

Yes it is. Watch the Allen TD run. Queen takes a swing at that ball, looks like Mike Tyson LOL

Edited October 4, 2022 by MarkyMannn

[RoyBatty is alive]

A pas that is tipped can certainly be the fault of the QB.  QB has to be cognizant of where the defenders are, do they have the hands  up to bat the ball.  If they can get to the ball either take the risk of throwing it that direction or go somewhere else.

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Please explain a scenario where a tip at the line is the QB’s fault it’s up to the o line to create passing lanes for the QB

 

The latter is correct, but it's "up to" the QB to use the passing lanes that are created or maneuver to find a lane or check it down or throw it away, and not try to force the ball through areas where there is no passing lane and the DL can get a tip.

 

I can't make NFL+ all 22 work well enough to look at this specific play, but a famous scenario would be JJ Watt in the Houston playoff game yelling "it went right through my hands!" of an Allen pass fired off right in Watt's face, through his extended arms. 

 

That was a completion, but if Watt had managed to get a hand on it and pick it or tip it, no one could say it wasn't Josh's responsibility for taking that shot.

 

On the other hand, the OL can and should be able to hurt the defenders if they jump for a tip.

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Beck Water

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

A pas that is tipped can certainly be the fault of the QB.  QB has to be cognizant of where the defenders are, do they have the hands  up to bat the ball.  If they can get to the ball either take the risk of throwing it that direction or go somewhere else.

Oh boy defensive lineman are taught that if they cannot get to the QB they are the time the throw of the past and get their hands up there is literally nothing at the quarterback can do about that it is a test pass protection to keep them engaged so that they cannot time the jump

[Boatdrinks]

36 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

This is why they need to get Cook going this week. I don’t care that he fumbled his first ball. I don’t care that he dropped a couple passes. They are not giving him enough opportunity. Stop coddling rookies. They need to play, not sit for half of their rookie contract. They did this with Davis too. 

I think they’re doing the opposite of coddling him. Each opportunity they’ve given him ( save for a few carries at the end of blowouts) he’s err, dropped the ball. He looks uptight, not checked in mentally and hasn’t earned more touches. Look at Shakir, also a rookie. They gave him a few shots and he’s made the most of them. He’ll be getting more looks. It doesn’t matter if your initial opportunity comes due to injury or lack of production by other players. You’ve got to earn a chance to get the ball. 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

I think they’re doing the opposite of coddling him. Each opportunity they’ve given him ( save for a few carries at the end of blowouts) he’s err, dropped the ball. He looks uptight, not checked in mentally and hasn’t earned more touches. Look at Shakir, also a rookie. They gave him a few shots and he’s made the most of them. He’ll be getting more looks. It doesn’t matter if your initial opportunity comes due to injury or lack of production by other players. You’ve got to earn a chance to get the ball. 

 

I get that opinion but I dont share it.  His first game he fumbled the ball on one carry and never saw the field again.  His second game I think was the game he got some carries in garbage time and did ok.  His third game he got some catches and he was the best pass catching RB on the team.  His last game he had 1 target and he dropped it.  It was pouring rain and it was an over the shoulder throw.  Total of 7 targets with 2 drops.

 

As far as Shakir goes... he didnt do good in his first game "opportunities" either.  He is only in now because of the injuries.  Yes he made a couple clutch catches but thats the point.  He wouldnt be there to make them if he wasnt in there out of necessity.

 

This kid needs touches IMO.  Cant keep benching rookies just because they make a mistake or dont haul in something difficult.  Our receivers drop balls.  Our other running backs drop balls.  Our other running backs fumble.  Singletary almost cost us the game this week with his fumble early and his almost fumble on our last drive.  Our TE dropped a ton of balls his first two seasons and still drops some.  The difference is those guys are either vets or they are in because there is no other option.

 

This is 2022.  I dont agree with the mindset of heres your one chance and if you dont make it you sit another week.  Thats crap.  These guys need touches.  They need to learn the flow of the NFL game.  Cook is our fastest and most dynamic RB on the team.  They need to find a role for him and get him some touches.  RB is the easiest position to learn in the NFL.  Stop using second round picks just to not use them for half of their rookie contract.  They did this with Davis.  They did this with Basham.  Now they are doing this with Cook.  Let him get some confidence.  One touch a game or even a couple is not enough to write the story.

 

This is the perfect game to do it in.  Steelers are not on our level.  We are banged up in the receiver department hard.  Cook could potentially be the most dynamic offensive player on the team.  They used a second round pick on him now make use of him.  I think that maybe Dorsey doesnt know how to use him honestly.

 

Singletary has been the best at running the football on this team and i have banged the table for him over Moss for two years now.  I honestly never want to see Moss on the field again.  Our oline isn't helping the situation but Moss is just bad.  Singletary is also the biggest mistake making RB on the team.  He is just bad at ball protection and while he has been better at pass blocking this year, he still has big time misses too.  Sometimes he even has poor vision running.  With all his mistakes they keep him in because he is a vet and because he runs better than Moss. They need to get over the mindset that a rookie might make a mistake so lets just keep him on the bench.  Especially when the vets are making the same mistakes.

 

IMO the Chiefs offense is beyond our level. Its not because the QB is better. They are of equal level.  A little different than each other but the same level.  The playmakers on our team are about equal.  The difference is their offensive design is way more dynamic.  They make use of their offense to the fullest.  Our offense is good but compared to the play design the Chiefs are on another level because Reid.  We barely even motion our offense.  We use no jet sweeps or anything of the like anymore.  Dorsey needs to start adding this type of stuff in if they want to compete offensively.  I dont know if he just doesnt know how to do those things or if he is just holding it back until they run into teams like the Chiefs.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Scott7975

[NewEra]

Ball security and even more so, drops.  The drops have been driving me nuts.  Most of them low difficulty.  I expect this to change and our O will once again be close to unstoppable.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Oh boy defensive lineman are taught that if they cannot get to the QB they are the time the throw of the past and get their hands up there is literally nothing at the quarterback can do about that it is a test pass protection to keep them engaged so that they cannot time the jump

No kidding about the lineman are taught thar, what is your point.  And no every pass as a QB you have to use judgement as to the probability the ball can get tipped.

[Airseven]

Bills have been in unique circumstances lately with heat/humidity and rain. Not an excuse but necessary context. My biggest concern is no matter what the circumstances, Allen seems to always lose the ball when hit in the pocket. 

[PrimeTime101]

14 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

simply put, the Bills, whether it's Allen or the RBs, need to take better care of the ball.  Two games in a row, the offense has basically handed the opposition 7 points, with drive starts inside the Bills' 10-yard line.   Singletary coughed it up once on Sunday and very nearly did it again on his last carry (it's hard to fumble when the other team wants you to score).

 

 

This team is really hard to beat even with the turnovers.  Clean those up, and well....

Josh Allen Fumble vs Miami likely cost us that game. 

[wjag]

3 hours ago, clayboy54 said:

The weather in Baltimore was a deluge. It's an outlier insofar as number of loose balls and drops. If it becomes a trend on clear days, then worry.

 

As someone who sat through the game, I push back on this.  It was raining, but I would never call it a deluge.  The third quarter was probably the worst.  And even then, it wasn't a driving rain.  It must have looked bad on TV, but it wasn’t terrible.  I stayed dried the whole game with the thinnest of ponchos on.

Edited October 4, 2022 by wjag

[clayboy54]

2 minutes ago, wjag said:

 

As someone who sat through the game, I push back on this.  It was raining, but I would never call it a deluge.  The third quarter was probably the worst.  And even then, it wasn't a driving rain.  It must have looked bad on TV, but it was terrible.  I stayed dried the whole game with the thinnest of ponchos on.

Perhaps it looked worse on TV and the TV crew were making a big deal out of the conditions, especially with regard to drops.

[Billzgobowlin]

14 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

simply put, the Bills, whether it's Allen or the RBs, need to take better care of the ball.  Two games in a row, the offense has basically handed the opposition 7 points, with drive starts inside the Bills' 10-yard line.   Singletary coughed it up once on Sunday and very nearly did it again on his last carry (it's hard to fumble when the other team wants you to score).

 

 

This team is really hard to beat even with the turnovers.  Clean those up, and well....

The fumble would not have won them the game.  At best we were tied going to overtime

[wjag]

21 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

The fumble would not have won them the game.  At best we were tied going to overtime

yeah but the number of incriminations on this board might have approached epic levels.