WR - Almost as Decimated as Secondary

[JY422]

13 hours ago, Billznut said:

I think this week against a relatively poor Steelers squad will be the week that we go to a more balanced offensive scheme. Expect lots more runs and throws to the RBs and TEs. Doubtful the game plan will be to air it out deep much this week. 

Based on what information do you come to this conclusion? This team plays one way and they don’t change their game plan based on the perceived “weakness” of an upcoming opponent. That’s what great teams do. They impose their will on their opponent. They are going to throw 30+ times every game. Hell, they threw 30 times in 50mph winds last year against the Pats.

 

the Steelers are not a walkover opponent. Not as long as Mike Tonkin is their coach. They’ve been in every game this season and they beat the AFC Super Bowl team from last season. 
 

the Bills will come out slinging it around like they always do hoping to be able to trot Keenum out in the 4th quarter if everything goes perfectly. 

[DCofNC]

47 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Hahahhaha…EXACTLY!!!!  We don’t have much outside of Diggs and now Davis is injured and McKenzie and crowder are too. Shakir has a chance to really step up so I’m excited about that. However, we do need to invest on the offensive side of the ball on the oline and more weapons for Allen. 

This is the EXACT reason I said WR in round 1, but I see the CB pick.  Then WR in round 2, WTF? They must be planning round 3 then… ok..  So the masterBeaner came away with a 1st round CB, who can’t start over a 6th rounder, 2 completely wasted picks for rounds 2/3. A 5th round WR, said 6th round DB and a ST LB.  Sounds like a draft genius to me, but man, none of that matters because the Homers “trust the process”.  
 

This isn’t to say this draft won’t work out with a good DB and possibly 2, and maybe Shakir will find himself a role, but it does question Beane’s ability to equate value to the rounds.  Use your early picks on the positions that cost you money, not the ones where you can get cheap FAs or even really good players for half the cost of other positions.  WR now costs 20M a year for a top player and you genuinely need at least 3 guys that play at a pretty high level for that position.  RBs don’t command half of that.  Why are you drafting RBs before WRs?  Why have they wasted 3 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the last 4 years to still not have one.  McBeane has built a good team here, but if they executed better, the team could be the best roster in football by a long stretch.  Yet, I’m going to get all the dislikes here because the mouth breathers all want to tell me “we have the best and deepest team in football” , no you don’t.  Here’s a litmus test, if Allen is out, does this team still stand a chance? No.  When Maholmes went out, did they still win? Yep.  Real stars and real depth allowed them to prevail with Chad Henne, put anybody else throwing to this rag tag team of “weapons” and you get a sub .500 team.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Because he gets to keep his contract if he’s traded. If he’s cut, the contract is ripped up and he’s signing with a new team for much less.

 

The Bills we’re done with him and wanted to save the cap money.

 

Yeah I dont think thats how it worked out but hey ya never know what happens behind closed doors.  In either case... Tom Brady, two games, 15 yards total on I think 4 catches.  He isnt that good anymore.  He is old and lost a step.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Scott7975

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

15 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

This is the EXACT reason I said WR in round 1, but I see the CB pick.  Then WR in round 2, WTF? They must be planning round 3 then… ok..  So the masterBeaner came away with a 1st round CB, who can’t start over a 6th rounder, 2 completely wasted picks for rounds 2/3. A 5th round WR, said 6th round DB and a ST LB.  Sounds like a draft genius to me, but man, none of that matters because the Homers “trust the process”.  
 

This isn’t to say this draft won’t work out with a good DB and possibly 2, and maybe Shakir will find himself a role, but it does question Beane’s ability to equate value to the rounds.  Use your early picks on the positions that cost you money, not the ones where you can get cheap FAs or even really good players for half the cost of other positions.  WR now costs 20M a year for a top player and you genuinely need at least 3 guys that play at a pretty high level for that position.  RBs don’t command half of that.  Why are you drafting RBs before WRs?  Why have they wasted 3 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the last 4 years to still not have one.  McBeane has built a good team here, but if they executed better, the team could be the best roster in football by a long stretch.  Yet, I’m going to get all the dislikes here because the mouth breathers all want to tell me “we have the best and deepest team in football” , no you don’t.  Here’s a litmus test, if Allen is out, does this team still stand a chance? No.  When Maholmes went out, did they still win? Yep.  Real stars and real depth allowed them to prevail with Chad Henne, put anybody else throwing to this rag tag team of “weapons” and you get a sub .500 team.

 

When did Henne win a game with Mahomes out? The playoff game?  He had the ball for 3 possessions and they scored 3 points - they were in FG range when he came in btw and he threw a pick.  I guess the 4th down play was pretty ballsy with a backup QB but lets not act like the offense was some unstoppable juggernaut with Henne in.

 

13 WRs taken before cook - and 6 taken before our 1st round pick.  We would have been able to get Christian watson in the first, or maybe Pickens?  In the 2nd we would have had the choice of these guys: 

• Velus Jones Jr.
• Jalen Tolbert
• David Bell
• Danny Gray
• Erik Ezukanma
• Romeo Doubs
• Calvin Austin
• Khalil Shakir 

 

I suppose we could have moved up in the 2nd - but Skyy Moore is sort of a slot WR anyway and similar to Shakir.  Same with Metchie.  Tyquan thornton has burner speed but he can't see the field in NE so i can't imagine much of a contribution with buffalo.  

Edited October 4, 2022 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[ArtVandalay]

37 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Any time passes are deflected its sort of hard to react, and it seemed to get deflected just past his hands instead of into him for whatever reason.  

He had a clutch catch in the 4th quarter so... i think we can forgive him 🙂

He 100% pulled back and let the ball by because he thought it was going to Diggs. They talked about it on the telecast too. 

 

But what you said exactly describes what I said about him... he's frustrating because he makes the spectacular plays but then it's just so bad on the routine and lacks nuance at the position. 

 

With the WR injuries it would be nice to see him step up. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[SCBills]

11 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

This is the EXACT reason I said WR in round 1, but I see the CB pick.  Then WR in round 2, WTF? They must be planning round 3 then… ok..  So the masterBeaner came away with a 1st round CB, who can’t start over a 6th rounder, 2 completely wasted picks for rounds 2/3. A 5th round WR, said 6th round DB and a ST LB.  Sounds like a draft genius to me, but man, none of that matters because the Homers “trust the process”.  
 

This isn’t to say this draft won’t work out with a good DB and possibly 2, and maybe Shakir will find himself a role, but it does question Beane’s ability to equate value to the rounds.  Use your early picks on the positions that cost you money, not the ones where you can get cheap FAs or even really good players for half the cost of other positions.  WR now costs 20M a year for a top player and you genuinely need at least 3 guys that play at a pretty high level for that position.  RBs don’t command half of that.  Why are you drafting RBs before WRs?  Why have they wasted 3 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the last 4 years to still not have one.  McBeane has built a good team here, but if they executed better, the team could be the best roster in football by a long stretch.  Yet, I’m going to get all the dislikes here because the mouth breathers all want to tell me “we have the best and deepest team in football” , no you don’t.  Here’s a litmus test, if Allen is out, does this team still stand a chance? No.  When Maholmes went out, did they still win? Yep.  Real stars and real depth allowed them to prevail with Chad Henne, put anybody else throwing to this rag tag team of “weapons” and you get a sub .500 team.

 

I was 100% on board with drafting a WR high.  I also rolled my eyes at all the "pass catchers" commentary coming out over the off-season/OTA's.

 

It was obvious we lacked outside WR depth, and now we've seen multiple weeks in a row with a hobbled Gabe Davis leading to an Offense that shows a complete lack of explosive down the field ability. 

 

I just don't know what our options were.. The draft was an absolute disaster scenario for those of us that wanted a Day 1/Day 2 WR.  

 

Looks like we're going to have to hope Khalil Shakir is another Gabe Davis or Romeo Doubs mid-round stud.  Certainly within the realm of possibilities, but I don't love that it takes a Kumerow high ankle sprain, Davis on a hobbled ankle, McKenzie in concussion protocol and Crowder broken ankle to finally get this guy out there.  We need more explosive players, and I feel the same way about Cook.. let these young guys have their ups and downs.  It's not like the RB room and anyone outside Diggs is really lighting the world on fire right now. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I was 100% on board with drafting a WR high.  I also rolled my eyes at all the "pass catchers" commentary coming out over the off-season/OTA's.

 

It was obvious we lacked outside WR depth, and now we've seen multiple weeks in a row with a hobbled Gabe Davis leading to an Offense that shows a complete lack of explosive down the field ability. 

 

I just don't know what our options were.. The draft was an absolute disaster scenario for those of us that wanted a Day 1/Day 2 WR.  

 

Looks like we're going to have to hope Khalil Shakir is another Gabe Davis or Romeo Doubs mid-round stud.  Certainly within the realm of possibilities, but I don't love that it takes a Kumerow high ankle sprain, Davis on a hobbled ankle, McKenzie in concussion protocol and Crowder broken ankle to finally get this guy out there.  We need more explosive players, and I feel the same way about Cook.. let these young guys have their ups and downs.  It's not like the RB room and anyone outside Diggs is really lighting the world on fire right now. 

 

This is the truth.  When dotson and burks were both gone and williams went far earlier than expected despite likely redshirting this year, it wasn't in the cards.  In the 2nd my only wish is we had just gone with offensive line help in the interior.  

 

Seeing Doubs succeed with Rodgers makes me hopeful in a way - but at the same time they aren't a very good passing team right now.  He's getting more playing time with Watkins out, Watson struggling, and making the most of it too.  Hopefully Shakir can do the same as he eases into the offense replacing crowder.  

[DCofNC]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

 

I was 100% on board with drafting a WR high.  I also rolled my eyes at all the "pass catchers" commentary coming out over the off-season/OTA's.

 

It was obvious we lacked outside WR depth, and now we've seen multiple weeks in a row with a hobbled Gabe Davis leading to an Offense that shows a complete lack of explosive down the field ability. 

 

I just don't know what our options were.. The draft was an absolute disaster scenario for those of us that wanted a Day 1/Day 2 WR.  

 

Looks like we're going to have to hope Khalil Shakir is another Gabe Davis or Romeo Doubs mid-round stud.  Certainly within the realm of possibilities, but I don't love that it takes a Kumerow high ankle sprain, Davis on a hobbled ankle, McKenzie in concussion protocol and Crowder broken ankle to finally get this guy out there.  We need more explosive players, and I feel the same way about Cook.. let these young guys have their ups and downs.  It's not like the RB room and anyone outside Diggs is really lighting the world on fire right now. 

100% agree, the only skill player on the O that consistently does his job is Diggs.  It’s time to get some new talent on field and see what happens, if they bomb out, gotta make something happen to get OBJ here or make a pre-deadline trade for somebody.  If they excel, great.  

They took a risk on Crowder being healthy.. didn’t happen, Davis staying healthy, didn’t happen, McKenzie stepping up, not looking good. And the rest was supposed to be depth, which even those guys are banged up.  So it’s been a mess.  I think more resources need(ed) to go the position players on the O, but they left the burden on JA.  That’s a recipe for a certain amount of success, but Allen can’t do it all, every time.  True he should have made the throw to McKenzie in Miami, but when you leave the gate of the whole team on one guy.. eventually it catches up.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I have no interest in Isaiah Hodgins being called up. He’s a 4.70 WR.

 

What I’d like to see is if the Bills can get Gabe Davis and Dawson Knox going. 
 

 

[TFBillsfan]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I have no interest in Isaiah Hodgins being called up. He’s a 4.70 WR.

 

What I’d like to see is if the Bills can get Gabe Davis and Dawson Knox going. 
 

 

Agree and in fairness both are still not 100% from ankle injuries. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I have no interest in Isaiah Hodgins being called up. He’s a 4.70 WR.

 

What I’d like to see is if the Bills can get Gabe Davis and Dawson Knox going. 
 

 

 

He ran a 4.61.  He's slow but yeesh thats some disrespect - he's also on the PS for a reason (and its not his hands, which are very good).  This isn't a multi-year contract commitment, its dressing for a game or two and maybe playing a few snaps.  

[Solomon Grundy]

Sneaky Joe on GR, right now, is why I mentioned in other threads why aren't the Bills reaching out to Desean Jackson? The Bills are lacking speed at the receiver position. Desean can still run and is a veteran player. Why not, if they aren't? 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Stevenson was starting to make noise? Perhaps you heard him running into his own blocker on KO returns😅

 

Well then thankfully he won't he returning KOs...

[mjt328]

13 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I said this all off-season…I was never impressed by what they did at WR. I love Diggs and Davis. They are REALLY good, but beyond them it’s very suspect. Crowder on a one year deal. McKenzie on a two year deal that they can get out of after one year. Shakir has a shot at being good so the jury is out there. The rest is just guys. 
 

We are a pass first team that isn’t very deep at WR talent wise and our oline is patched together too. I’m sorry guys, but we need to add like crazy this off-season to the line and WR corp. 

 

Exactly how deep is a team supposed to be at WR?  Sometimes I think the expectations for Brandon Beane are ridiculously unrealistic.

 

Nobody in the league carries more than 6-7 receivers on the active 53-man roster.

We went into the season with 6 guys making the initial roster, 1 guy on IR and 3 guys on the practice squad.

No GM in the NFL can have a perfect contingency plan if we suffer injuries to 4 of our top 6 players at a single position.  Especially when we are also forced to deal with multiple injuries on the defensive line and in the secondary.

 

Most of the people who follow the NFL believe the Bills have the deepest roster in the entire NFL.  But I keep hearing a chunk of our fanbase say that he didn't do enough to address the RB, WR, TE, OL and CB groups.  I'm sorry, but we can't have All-Pro talent at every starting spot, along with starting-caliber vets all the way down to our second and third string.  

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by mjt328

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Exactly how deep is a team supposed to be at WR?  Sometimes I think the expectations for Brandon Beane are ridiculously unrealistic.

Nobody in the league carries more than 6-7 receivers on the active 53-man roster.

 

We went into the season with 6 guys making the initial roster, 1 guy on IR and 3 guys on the practice squad.

No GM in the NFL can have a perfect contingency plan if we suffer injuries to 4 of our top 6 players at a single position.  Especially when we are also forced to deal with multiple injuries on the defensive line and in the secondary.

 

Most of the people who follow the NFL believe the Bills have the deepest roster in the entire NFL.  But I keep hearing a chunk of our fanbase say that he didn't do enough to address the RB, WR, TE, OL and CB groups.  I'm sorry, but we can't have All-Pro talent at every starting spot, along with starting-caliber vets all the way down to our second and third string.  

 

 

Beane has done a great job. 

 

DT depth tested and we've been more than getting by with Jones, Settle and PS DT's. 

 

CB depth tested, and we've seen the young guys can ball.  

 

WR depth is the one spot that I do think they've had a blind spot for.  It was a pretty big worry for fans & media alike, in regards to our outside WR depth if one of Diggs or Davis miss time.  Losing Kumerow made a tough situation worse, but he's not a down the field weapon either.  I was willing to give the lack of explosive plays a pass in the Miami game due to the weather, but the same situation was present against Baltimore.  

[mjt328]

Just now, SCBills said:

WR depth is the one spot that I do think they've had a blind spot for.  It was a pretty big worry for fans & media alike, in regards to our outside WR depth if one of Diggs or Davis miss time.  Losing Kumerow made a tough situation worse, but he's not a down the field weapon either.  I was willing to give the lack of explosive plays a pass in the Miami game due to the weather, but the same situation was present against Baltimore.  

 

Our WR depth might end up surprising everyone.  Just like we've seen at the CB, S and DT positions.  Give them a chance.

The team really likes Isaiah Hodgins on the outside.  This may finally be his big opportunity.  

They could also bring up Tavon Austin to play the slot, and then move Khalil Shakir to the outside.

 

Don't forget.  The Bills were without Gabe Davis the entire Titans game, and the passing game never missed a beat.

The team had faith in Jake Kumerow as depth, and he came through.  Then he got hurt too.

 

There are many reasons why our offense has lacked explosion the last two weeks.  Not just that we lack WR depth on the outside.  I think you are also underestimating how much the weather affected the Ravens game too.  Guys were dropping passes all over the place, and the wind was blowing pretty hard in the second half.  

 

 

 

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Our WR depth might end up surprising everyone.  Just like we've seen at the CB, S and DT positions.  Give them a chance.

The team really likes Isaiah Hodgins on the outside.  This may finally be his big opportunity.  

They could also bring up Tavon Austin to play the slot, and then move Khalil Shakir to the outside.

 

Don't forget.  The Bills were without Gabe Davis the entire Titans game, and the passing game never missed a beat.

The team had faith in Jake Kumerow as depth, and he came through.  Then he got hurt too.

 

There are many reasons why our offense has lacked explosion the last two weeks.  Not just that we lack WR depth on the outside.  I think you are also underestimating how much the weather affected the Ravens game too.  Guys were dropping passes all over the place, and the wind was blowing pretty hard in the second half.  

 

 

 

 

Fair points.  I definitely believe the Miami heat/injuries factored into lack of downfield attack, but to see it happen again vs Baltimore was concerning.  

 

Love what we saw in limited time from Shakir.  I don't love that it seems to take an act of God to get younger/more talented guys on the field over vet guys.  Hoping this changes with the coaching staff.  We saw it with Davis/Sanders... Cook has made mistakes, but it's not like Singletary/Moss don't... Shakir has speed/physicality/route-running that we could certainly use with a banged up Davis over the past three weeks yet we've been forcing Crowder and a clearly injured Davis out there. 

 

I'd agree Shakir could solve a lot of our worries.. Can he consistently win outside is TBD. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

100% agree, the only skill player on the O that consistently does his job is Diggs.  It’s time to get some new talent on field and see what happens, if they bomb out, gotta make something happen to get OBJ here or make a pre-deadline trade for somebody.  If they excel, great.  

They took a risk on Crowder being healthy.. didn’t happen, Davis staying healthy, didn’t happen, McKenzie stepping up, not looking good. And the rest was supposed to be depth, which even those guys are banged up.  So it’s been a mess.  I think more resources need(ed) to go the position players on the O, but they left the burden on JA.  That’s a recipe for a certain amount of success, but Allen can’t do it all, every time.  True he should have made the throw to McKenzie in Miami, but when you leave the gate of the whole team on one guy.. eventually it catches up.

This isn’t exactly the time for getting new talent on the field. They’re 4 games in , so saying this or that “ didn’t happen” is a bit hyper critical with so much of the story of this 2022 season left unwritten. Very team to an extent takes a risk as you can only have so many players on the roster. In short, Bills have stayed remarkably healthy the past few seasons. So far this year, they’ve had a rash of injuries at key spots. They’ve had to adapt their scheme while trying to win games. 

[Ralonzo]

26 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Our WR depth might end up surprising everyone.  Just like we've seen at the CB, S and DT positions.  Give them a chance.

The team really likes Isaiah Hodgins on the outside.  This may finally be his big opportunity.  

 

 

I don't know if that's where they like him, he's not a downfield or separation guy. The reps he got at big slot in preseason he was highly effective. Size, catch radius, elite hands. All he really has to do is post up and present the numbers, bam, easy 6-7 yards.

[HeHateMe]

11 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

I don't know if that's where they like him, he's not a downfield or separation guy. The reps he got at big slot in preseason he was highly effective. Size, catch radius, elite hands. All he really has to do is post up and present the numbers, bam, easy 6-7 yards.

Seems like someone we could use right now, he doesn't have crazy vertical speed but seemed to test well in terms of short area quickness.