A Few Thoughts About the Ravens Game, in no particular order

[Rochesterfan]

43 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

It was actually #93 Brandon Bryant who blew that play up by fork lifting their 307 lb fullback a full 3 yards back and pancaking him!  Edmunds plugged his hole by engaging pulling H back.  Here is great video breakdown of play by Geoff Schwartz 

 

 

 

Excellent - saw this after I posted - it shows it perfectly.

 

[GunnerBill]

43 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

It was actually #93 Brandon Bryant who blew that play up by fork lifting their 307 lb fullback a full 3 yards back and pancaking him!  Edmunds plugged his hole by engaging pulling H back.  Here is great video breakdown of play by Geoff Schwartz 

 

 

 

Thanks. I noticed that when I watched it back yesterday but couldn't work out who it was because I couldn't see the hair from the TV view. Hell of a play by Bryant. 

[No_Matter_What]

1 hour ago, freddyjj said:

It was actually #93 Brandon Bryant who blew that play up by fork lifting their 307 lb fullback a full 3 yards back and pancaking him!  Edmunds plugged his hole by engaging pulling H back.  Here is great video breakdown of play by Geoff Schwartz 

 

 

What I find interesting is that we have 6 linemen on field in this play and none of them is called Von Miller  It's Rousseau, Bryant, Jones, Emili, Settle and Lawson if I see correctly.

 

I know that Miller is here mainly for his passrush ability and we want to limit his snaps but afaik he is also solid run defender and the game is on line here.

 

I am not criticizing this decision just find it interesting.

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

There was a previous game vs the Ravens where Trent Murphy, of all people, was mirroring Jackson and did a good job.

 

Trent Murphy's time here was so weird...he either played really really well or really really bad and not much in between.

[Beck Water]

18 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

It looked to me like because it was tipped and off target, Knox thought it was intended for someone else.  So he started for it but stopped thinking, "No I don't want to deflect a ball headed for x."  Not sure who it was but there was another receiver close by.

 

I think Knox just reacted late and slow in tracking the ball. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

In case it wasn’t mentioned 

 

 

[Simon Says]

You really think Beane will take on Moore's contract? I think it is  more than Diggs, so, not happening. 

[Beck Water]

21 hours ago, Virgil said:

2 - Questions - Not my normal format, but people don't typically read these whole things, so might as well ask now.  On the very first drive with the INT, who's fault was that?  From the replay I saw, the ball may have been tipped AND it went through Knox's hands.  Is that correct?   Also, on the Lamar scramble for the first down that was reviewed and called a yard short, did he not get the ball past the sticks?  It was really tough to see what was going on for some of these plays and the replays in the stadium were less than stellar.

 

It was tipped by a DLman and then Knox got a hand on it which deflected it to the defender.  I think that's one of those "some days you da windshield, some days you da bug" plays which epitomizes "some days it's better to be lucky than good".  Plenty of blame to go around - Josh shouldn't be throwing on a line the defenders can deflect and counting on his arm strength to zip the ball by them.  The OL shouldn't let the DL jump and get deflections - that's an invite to drive them to the ground as Eric Wood used to.  And, Knox and his eye training should see the ball deflect and react faster/better.  But there's still a big element of luck involved. 

 

The Ravens had a completion later in the game which involved a similar high degree of luck in their favor.

 

21 hours ago, Virgil said:

5 - Refs - I promise, I will get to the good stuff soon, but holy crap were these guys terrible.  I'm going to have to watch the replay of this game to make sure I'm not crazy, but there were a bunch of calls I saw on the screen that looks like they missed.  However, the lack of holding calls against the the Ravens OT's was insane.  There were multiple times where you could see the Bills DE being dragged to the ground, holding up their other arm, and getting their jerseys spun around.  It was really, REALLY bad.  I don't know how these weren't called and it was beyond "letting them play."

 

You' re not crazy.  I have ZERO sympathy for Harbaugh whinging about the RTP call late in the game.  Not only was there persistent holding by the Ravens OL that went uncalled, there was persistent DH/DPI on our WR that went uncalled - Ravens DB was blatantly holding McKenzie's R arm down on one early incompletion for example.  In the second half the refs called a few which were declined because we got the completion anyway. 

 

Our OL may have started holding a bit more in the 2nd half on the principle of "Oh, so this is being allowed, eh?"

 

21 hours ago, Virgil said:

6 - Receivers - I know the ball was wet and we cleaned it up a bunch in the second half.  Seriously, Diggs, Shakir, and Knox all made beautiful sideline catches during the comeback.  However, I am getting really concerned with Knox and Davis.  It seems like both didn't commit to some catches, tried making body catches, or just got physically outplayed by the defender.  Similar to last year, Davis appears to be hurt and he's a mere shell of himself out there.  It's to the point where he might be better resting, as he doesn't seem to pose a threat at all.  Knox, I have no idea what's going on there.  I get that we are using him to block a lot, but still.

 

I also think both Knox and Davis are battling injuries and that affects their ability to get open.  People say "don't use Davis foot as an excuse", but if, as I think, Davis is a guy who needs to be close to 100% to make the moves he needs to get open, then it's a real problem if he's going to repeatedly injure his R ankle in practice and not be that guy for 6 weeks while it heals.  Knox was on injury report for a foot injury after the Titans game, then there was a nasty hit to his head in the Fins game (uncalled) and he wound up on injury report for back/hip.

 

Frankly, if Davis is going to be hampered half the time by his right ankle, we can't count on him as our #2.

 

21 hours ago, Virgil said:

 7- Interior Defensive Line - Was anyone else concerned at the massive holes being opened up down the middle by the Ravens offensive line? 

 

Not that we don't miss Jordan and Ed, but maybe not as much as you'd think.  I think part of what you're seeing is our front 4 Doing Their Job and actually soaking up multiple defenders, keeping the LB clean to make plays in those gaps.

 

You might  find this interesting:

 

21 hours ago, Virgil said:

8 - Dorsey/Kromer - I know I keep going negative, and I'm sorry, but it's what I saw.  Our play calling for running plays, and subsequent blocking support is getting worse each game it seems.  After the first Poyer interception, Dorsey called some terrible plays and basically wasted the opportunity.  Yes, Dorsey also gets credit for the winning drive, which was perfect, but the run play calling was terrible.  I was hopeful after the Rams game, as we showed so many different looks.  But now, it's shotgun handoffs between the G/T for no gain on second down.  There's no creativity, no push up front, nothing. 

 

 

21 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

What were some of the concepts we ran and why were they not creative? It's hard to take the word of someone saying we're not creative when the concepts are described as "shotgun runs up the middle".

20 hours ago, Virgil said:

I mean, what don’t you understand.  Would RPO out of the shotgun paint a better pic for you?

Shotgun, 12 personnel, run handoff up the middle….

20 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

No, Inside Zone, Counter, Power, Duo, ISO, etc. That would paint a better picture for me.

20 hours ago, Virgil said:

Yes, I play Madden too.  People get the gist of what’s being said.  That’s not what I do here. 
If you a better picture, watch the game 

 

With all respect Virgil - I look forward to your writeups each week, for the color and flavor you provide. 

 

A number of us who watch the games are self-taught in football and don't know the correct technical terms for various run play designs, which are to my eyes much harder to identify in person and worse, on network TV than pass plays are - especially when they don't work LOL. (back in 2018 I used to literally spend hours with all-22 trying to figure out what the run play design was actually supposed to be).

 

But if you're going to slam Dorsey for terrible plays, no creativity, no push up front, etc etc. it seems to me that HoofHearted has a valid point that one ought to be able to identify more specifically what the play design actually is, first?  Creativity in run play design goes well beyond whether jet sweeps and reverses are used, or whether a play is shotgun or under center, and understanding the details of what the play is designed to do is part of being able to reasonably conclude whether the problem is poor design/lack of creativity, poor blocking execution, poor timing, or poor RB play.

 

Otherwise, what I could say from watching the game is that the run plays were definitely a mixed bag (especially where Zach Moss was unable to get one stinkin' yard on our 4th possession in the 2Q ARE YOU F'ING KIDDING ME but that was not Moss's fault, it was a Jailbreak on DL) and the sequence of play calling was sometimes puzzling. 

 

I do think our choice to operate from shotgun was influenced by the weather and the fact that Morse is snapping with a dinged right wing.

 

Also, could be wrong, with Hoofhearted, don't think you're talking to someone whose football experience comes from playing Madden here. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

What I find interesting is that we have 6 linemen on field in this play and none of them is called Von Miller  It's Rousseau, Bryant, Jones, Emili, Settle and Lawson if I see correctly.

 

I know that Miller is here mainly for his passrush ability and we want to limit his snaps but afaik he is also solid run defender and the game is on line here.

 

I am not criticizing this decision just find it interesting.

 

It's kind of hard to argue with success.  Bryant was a DAWWWWWGGGG on that play but don't overlook the DAWWWG power of Tim Settle and Prince Emili.

 

And to my earlier point about how it can be a challenge to look at a blown-up run play and finger the OC for poor run play design with no creativity - that was, to my mind, a very well designed, well drawn up run play.  The RB has a choice of two gaps, one with a pulling guard clearing the way and one with a fullback taking out the LB after the RT takes care of Bryant.  I'm sure there's a good technical term for this and several of our posters here could tell us about it.

 

Well surprise surprise! Bryant swims by the RT and engages the fullback and another OLman.  Emili and Butler take care of the pulling guard.  That leaves Dodson and Edmunds lurking like a Pitbull and a Pterodactyl in one gap and Milano charging through the other to nail the RB in the backfield.

 

NFL+ for US Mortals continues to be broken and I'd be delighted if someone could tell me how to get the working version, but I suspect something very similar may have gone on with the Moss play which failed to get a yard in the 2Q.  It was probably a reasonable play design, the OL just got whupped on it.

 

 

[BFLO]

20 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

It’s been this way for so long that I know no different.   There’s things that people do at games that I don’t like.  Drinking, chief among them.  It leads to all sorts of boorish behavior.  But that’s what happens at Bills games.  And, part of the experience for Bills fans is to stand to watch their team.  They’re intense and into the game.  So they stand.  It’s how it goes.  

Boorish behavior? Such as standing the entire game?

 

The standing is also a byproduct of the drinking. People are doing so much drinking that there is a constant stream of people heading to the bathrooms or to get the next round of drinks. It's easier to just stand the whole time than do the sit/stand/sit every 30 seconds to make way for the next drunk trying to get past you. 

 

The seats are also cold and most people are underdressed for the elements (also a byproduct of drinking), so they never attempt to sit.  

 

 

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, BFLO said:

Boorish behavior? Such as standing the entire game?

 

The standing is also a byproduct of the drinking. People are doing so much drinking that there is a constant stream of people heading to the bathrooms or to get the next round of drinks. It's easier to just stand the whole time than do the sit/stand/sit every 30 seconds to make way for the next drunk trying to get past you. 

 

The seats are also cold and most people are underdressed for the elements (also a byproduct of drinking), so they never attempt to sit.  

 

 

I sit on the aisle.  Drinking has nothing to do with why everyone stands all the time.  It really doesn't.  There are people in and out, for sure, but many of them are slobs simply looking to drop $9 on a crappy piece of pizza.  The gluttons also aren't the reason people stand all of the time.  I have never had a beer or any concession product other than water or hot chocolate in that stadium in over 20 years of attending games in the age of majority.  Not one.  And I stand all the time.  It's just what people do there. 

 

Frankly, I think a lot of the standing is borne of the fact that the sideline seats are low to the ground, and the people in the very front have to stand to see over such things as players, security, TV equipment, etc.  They also have to stand to get a better (albeit only slightly) view of action across or down the field.  Now it has become habit.