Can someone PLEASE explain the holding rules to me like I'm 8?

[Billz4ever]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

Yes....the more a team gets called (punished) for it, the less they'll do it.  I want a fair and equitable game. I don't give a rats ass how long it takes to get fixed.  Or eliminate the rule altogether and let everyone hold.

You are spot on. They let a team keep getting away with it, they will keep doing it until it starts getting called.  The Patriots secondary was known for getting away with holding receivers religiously and getting away with it for a couple seasons.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Robert Paulson said:

and the ravens could have been called for at least 6 more

 

So couldn't the Bills

[Marvin]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

You are spot on. They let a team keep getting away with it, they will keep doing it until it starts getting called.  The Patriots secondary was known for getting away with holding receivers religiously and getting away with it for a couple seasons.

Um, "a couple of seasons" is a gross understatement.

[Billz4ever]

Just now, Marvin said:

Um, "a couple of seasons" is a gross understatement.

Sorry, I may have understated that just a bit. 😁

[mjt328]

It was a terribly called game on both sides.

 

It started with the missed PI on our first drive, when Isaiah McKenzie was hit before the ball arrived.  I can't really complain about this one much, because Jordan Poyer got away with an almost identical play later in the game.  So I guess it evened out?

 

As mentioned, the Ravens got away with tons of blatant offensive holds all throughout the game.  Several on very key plays of the game, where they ended up converting long passes.  But then you had the ticky-tacky offensive PI called on Mark Andrews, AND the awful roughing the QB call on the final drive.  There were probably 2-3 plays where both teams had legitimate arguments of the refs screwing them over on important plays.

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I'm smart enough to understand that it was a make-up call. My point here is, again, MAKE THE RIGHT DAMNED CALLS THE FIRST TIME, don't rely on make-up calls to balance the scales.

 

 

 

The Bills got the balance of the favorable calls yesterday.  Next day ref threads are stale right off the bus...

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The Bills got the balance of the favorable calls yesterday.  Next day ref threads are stale right off the bus...

I’m not sure they did but they got the last one which is all anybody remembers.  And that last call was more of a culmination of the ravens clearly making it their gameplan to hit josh as often as they could a lot of which were late and uncalled throughout the game.
 

the refs were certainly not good but they were bad for both teams  

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I’m not sure they did but they got the last one which is all anybody remembers.  And that last call was more of a culmination of the ravens clearly making it their gameplan to hit josh as often as they could a lot of which were late and uncalled throughout the game.
 

the refs were certainly not good but they were bad for both teams  

 

Which team's plan does not include hitting the opposing QB as often as possible?

[DCOrange]

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I mean, really?

 

In case nobody else mentioned this yet, the reason this is not a hold is because the pass rusher is attempting a swim move, which sort of naturally puts the OLineman in this position. There's an exception to the holding rule that states it will not be called if:

Quote

If, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding.

 

I remember Geoff Schwartz talking about this a year or two ago and couldn't believe it. So basically, any time you see a play like the screenshot above and it isn't called, it's likely because the ref felt it was caused by the defensive player.

[Coach Tuesday]

43 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

It was a terribly called game on both sides.

 

It started with the missed PI on our first drive, when Isaiah McKenzie was hit before the ball arrived.  I can't really complain about this one much, because Jordan Poyer got away with an almost identical play later in the game.  So I guess it evened out?

 

As mentioned, the Ravens got away with tons of blatant offensive holds all throughout the game.  Several on very key plays of the game, where they ended up converting long passes.  But then you had the ticky-tacky offensive PI called on Mark Andrews, AND the awful roughing the QB call on the final drive.  There were probably 2-3 plays where both teams had legitimate arguments of the refs screwing them over on important plays.

 

Every Jerome Boger game goes like that.  And relatedly, has 12 men on defense always been a dead ball foul?  Was shocked they blew the play dead instead of giving Allen and the offense a free play like an Offside.

[machine gun kelly]

Guys, pick a game and you can witch at holding over and over again.  Losers do that and that ain’t you (Rocky motivation speech from Balboa).

 

Guys, we’re winners and we gained on the roughing the passer against the ravens just like we lost in the Bucs game last year that really was a egregious.

 

We won.  It’s over.  I’m more concerned with a downward efficiency in our offense the last two weeks.  Guys will keep coming back.

 

In the bright side, the LBers again had an impact in this game including Edmunds along with Milano. 

[Livinginthepast]

I think the best indicator of an obvious hold is when the O lineman throws up his hands like he didnt touch the guy.  Like a soccer defender putting his arms up for a guy who dives in the 18 yard box. Thats when the Refs should automatically throw the flag!!

[TwistofFate]

3 hours ago, stevewin said:

this one bothered me so bad watching it live.  I was screaming at the tv, like how can you not see how blatant that hold was.

[Jamie Mueller]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Bob, really.

 

That's BLATANT, it's a chokehold!

 

If it's that obvious... and it results directly in the QB being able to get the ball out... it should be called. If they called an obvious hold on every play... the people doing the holding would be out of the game real fast.

 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I mean, really?

 

 

That one and the one on Dane Jackson blitzing were absolutely horrible no calls.

[CircleTheWagons99]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Again can be called on every NFL play. I can go pull screen shots of a hold from a Bills player as well. 

Ok, do it.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 hours ago, stevewin said:

this was the worst one because it was a corner blitz. So Lamar jackson escapes because of the hold, and is able to buy time to find the wide open receiver like 30 yards down field. 
 

Boger is blind back there. He called no holds on either team. 

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The Bills got the balance of the favorable calls yesterday.  Next day ref threads are stale right off the bus...

So why are we defending the zebras then if it was a horribly called game?

 

Who benefited the most shouldn't matter.

 

48 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

this one bothered me so bad watching it live.  I was screaming at the tv, like how can you not see how blatant that hold was.

The best part of it is how the blocker put his hands up after like he didn't do anything after blatantly holding him for several yards as Jackson blew by him.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Billz4ever

[JohnnyBuffalo]

3 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Then so be it, let it slow things down.  The players will adjust faster than you think.  It's like objecting to baseball players being busted for steroids because you like seeing home runs.  It's not the point.

I see your point that the players may adjust and therefore not commit as many penalties but if you start examining things more closely you will inevitably find more to penalize.   I’m not a fan of slowing things down more.   Just an opinion.  
 

I do not agree with your analogy of not busting for steroids.   I don’t understand that at all.  That’s blatantly cheating and happens outside the confines of a game and absolutely needs to be addressed.   A foul, like holding, committed in the hustle and pace of a game is no where near relatable to premeditated cheating like steroids.  

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Which team's plan does not include hitting the opposing QB as often as possible?

They all do, but when you hesitate, and then decide to hit him anyway after the ball is gone, that is a penalty.

 

We got flagged last week for clearly trying to hold up and avoid the collision.

 

We got a dude this week who hesitates and then makes a conscious decision to NOT try and avoid the hit and instead decides to engage the QB and hit him after the ball is gone.

 

And now it's like you want to argue the latter isn't really a penalty when I've seen lesser than that called for roughing.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Billz4ever